Boundary Waters Quetico Forum :: Listening Point - General Discussion :: Best bear bag technique
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mvillasuso |
minnmike: " Hide it in the woods last thing before you go to bed. No ropes or pulleys needed. Works great." I'm not trying to be insulting, but this method is truly nonsensical. |
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TechnoScout |
Pilgrimpaddler: "I’ve never hung a food bag, just keep a clean camp. About 20 trips or so and I’ve never seen a bear and haven’t even had any small critter issues. Maybe it’s just dumb luck and next trip will be different, but so far it works for me." Back in 2010 we were camped on that big island on South Arm of Knife. We had our food hung high enough between a couple of trees so that the miniBears could not get to them. Went out to fish one day...came back and a momma bear and her cub had gotten into our food. Needless to say, we moved to another campsite. I hang my food but I am trying to warm up to the idea of stashing it. |
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inspector13 |
lskidder: "nctry: "I’ve knowingly had bear in camps with bearvaults, ursacks, hanging... whatever. Never lost a thing. Well, at home my electric fence failed yesterday and one got my bee hive. But camping, Bwca trips, I’ve never lost anything to a bear. I brought the bwj rig a few years. And there are great ways to string that system. But just being clean and careful around camp is key. Properly packaging your food is a big deal too in my book. " He’s about a half hour drive from both Hibbing and Grand Rapids MN. |
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Savage Voyageur |
AmarilloJim: " Exactly what we do too. Haven’t had a problem yet in 15 Trips this way. I’ve always said to protect your Leeches also from loss too. Because if a bear gets your food you can always fish for food. |
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Duckman |
If I was responsible for a group or some picky eaters, I'd probably have to switch to a more traditional and secure method. But with just me, in worse case scenario I'd just have to leave early if I lost my food. |
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minnmike |
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Bigfishlaker |
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Blackdogyak |
straighthairedcurly: "The problem people have with trees is they expect to find the "perfect" hanging tree where they can hang it out on a limb. They should be looking for 2 trees 20 plus feet apart. We carry long sturdy ropes and some pulleys (which we use sometimes if we need more leverage or to decrease friction when raising the pack). OK...I get that. Thanks. How would you add pulley(s) to this? |
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billconner |
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BearBurrito |
lskidder: "minnmike: " Hide it in the woods last thing before you go to bed. No ropes or pulleys needed. Works great." +1 for me. I have never hung a food bag. |
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BobDobbs |
One cheat that I use is a 'shooter' rope. A length of very thin line (mason line, 550 cord etc) tied to a 4 oz bullet sinker. I can usually get the shooter line over a redonkulously high limb in 1-2 tries. From there it is a simple matter to haul the hanging rope over the limb, then the food bag. I've gone from 20 minute hangs to consistently under 5 minutes this way. WARNING: DO NOT let that sinker hit you in the head if you try this (and don't ask me how I know). |
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ledhead |
lskidder: "nctry: "I’ve knowingly had bear in camps with bearvaults, ursacks, hanging... whatever. Never lost a thing. Well, at home my electric fence failed yesterday and one got my bee hive. But camping, Bwca trips, I’ve never lost anything to a bear. I brought the bwj rig a few years. And there are great ways to string that system. But just being clean and careful around camp is key. Properly packaging your food is a big deal too in my book. " LSkidder, I'm about 40 mi west of you (Conifer, CO 8,600'), check with the CPW: CPW's Bear fencing for beekeepers |
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Cedarboy |
CB |
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Jthuso |
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GSP |
OldScout48: "I have hung for years never had a bear in camp (that we know of). I use a 3 rope method that can be varied somewhat, but this is what seems to work best. The throw rope is 550 paracord that is attached to a lacrosse ball with a hole drilled through the center. The lacrosse ball is tossed over a high limb, the higher the better. The paracord is attached one end of 1st 50' 3/8 " polypropylene cord with a loop in one end attached to a carabiner. Start pulling on the ball end of the paracord and pull the polypropylene cord up and over the limb. Before you pull too far attach the 2nd 50' 3/8" polypropylene cord with a loop on one end to the carabiner. The 3rd 50' 3/8 polypropylene cord threaded through the carabiner (this becomes a simple pulley system to lift the food pack), continue to pull rope #1 utill the carbiner is maybe 10 ' from the 1st tree ( you need eyeball this). Now take the 2nd rope and pull it to a 2nd tree. If you have picked the right limb you do not need to toss the 2nd rope over a limb, but you could if you wished. Now adjust both ropes (#1 and #2) to keep the carabiner where you want it. Tie off rope #1 and then pull on rope #2 and tie it off. If you have done everything correctly the 3rd rope should be hanging from the carabiner 12' to 15' above ground. Now to lift you food pack just tie one end of rope #3 to the pack and pull in up. You could use additional carabiners or pulleys on rope #3 to help make the lifting easier." Great explanation, exactly the method we use. Maybe a 5 minute process and pack can be 10-20 feet up. |
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MN_Lindsey |
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StLouisPaddler |
I also use the pack-a-pull pulley system. It gives up to a 4:1 mechanical advantage, which I appreciate on day one of the trip with food for three guys for a week. I hang with the clothesline method because it seems like I can never find one tree with a decent branch. If you’re not familiar, you string a long line between two trees (which forms the horizontal “clothesline”) and then the pulley is tied in the middle of that line. For the clothesline, I use 100 feet of Lawson Ironwire. It’s lightweight, low stretch, knots and unknots better than amsteel, and has a higher strength rating than standard paracord. The downside of a 4:1 pulley system is that you need a relatively long rope connecting the pulleys to the food bag because it goes back and forth between the clothesline and the pulleys four times. Since the two bottom pulleys start on the ground and the pulleys on the clothesline are suspended 15-20 feet in the air, I’ve found 75 feet for the bag line is about right to get it high, but I’ve made it work with 50 feet and in a lot of sites there just aren’t good enough trees to get it as high as the rangers would like. For the food bag line, I’ve used Lawson Bear rope in the past but will probably use 7/64 amsteel blue on my next trip. I would use the ironwire except that at 2mm it’s a little too small diameter for the pulleys used in the pack-a-pull. Like everything else I’ve learned for my trips, my Bear bag system has been taken from ideas I got from reading the posts of people here who, unlike me, actually know what they are talking about. |
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Grizzlyman |
GearGuy: "I apologize to anyone if I offend you by saying this; With weight savings and ..... I shortened the reply to post ... Gearguy. Incredibly helpful post and pictures. Question though only because you defied anyone to challenge you:) When it’s fully loaded, Aren’t you pulling that loaded rope with the green carabiner up an over a limb? - which essentially turns the limb into your pulley? Isn’t that difficult to do with 25-50 lbs on a small diameter rope? Doesn’t the friction make that difficult? Or am I misunderstanding this? |
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BnD |
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lskidder |
nctry: "I’ve knowingly had bear in camps with bearvaults, ursacks, hanging... whatever. Never lost a thing. Well, at home my electric fence failed yesterday and one got my bee hive. But camping, Bwca trips, I’ve never lost anything to a bear. I brought the bwj rig a few years. And there are great ways to string that system. But just being clean and careful around camp is key. Properly packaging your food is a big deal too in my book. " Hey nctry, where are you and your beehive? I have a cabin west of Pike's Peak at 8900 feet and I have been tempted to try a beehive there because of all the sweetclover but I have been afraid of the bears destroying it. In my working life I had beehives burned by wildfires and stolen by the worse parasites of all, the two legged ones. Haven't tried one yet in the Rockies! |
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AmarilloJim |
Grizzlyman: "GearGuy: "I apologize to anyone if I offend you by saying this; With weight savings and ..... |
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TDBauer |
No more hanging for me, ever. |
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bwcasolo |
mooseplums: "2 bear vaults here" same here, quit hanging decades ago. |
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Pilgrimpaddler |
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straighthairedcurly |
Rope #1 gets tossed over a high up limb on tree #1 and rope #2 gets tossed over a high limb on tree #2. Both ropes can stay close to the trunk (NOT far out on a limb). Start with the pack near the base of tree #1, tie on both ropes. Now tie off rope #1. Now pull on rope #2 to start to raise the pack off the ground...it will swing out and away from tree #1...use pulleys if needed...can also have 2nd person use a paddle or long stick to push up on the bottom of pack to kind of toss it up while rope #2 is tightened. Once pack is high enough, tie off rope #2. Pack will now be high in the air and far from both trunks. My husband woke up one night to the sound of running feet ... followed by a pause ... followed by a thump. Kept hearing it over and over. He finally figured out it was a bear running, jumping at the pack and then thudding to the ground. The bear never stood a chance of getting that pack. |
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TomP |
BnD: "Blue barrel. Haven't ever looked back." Where can you buy a blue barrel set up? |
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nctry |
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riverrunner |
Bears that have taught themselves or have learned from mom had help from humans are very had to defeat. I have had two bears in camp in the BWCA the first was a very dirty camp left by some one else. We chased it out and it did not come back. The 2nd I went looking for during season. That bear will never rob a food sack again or pass it bad habit along. Bears that learn bad habits should be destroyed at the earliest opportunity. But what happened is they are left to run around until they become a real problem and destroy many peoples trips. Only to be killed in the end. There is no shortage of black bears getting rid of the problems ones should not be an issue. |
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GearGuy |
Grizzlyman: "GearGuy: "I apologize to anyone if I offend you by saying this; With weight savings and ..... At no point does my setup have weight-loaded-ropes moving across/over trees. I'll walk you through the setup, I bet our setups are the same? 1. Blue carabiner rope AKA "Anchor Rope" gets thrown over a suitable branch. The carabiner has to be lowered to the ground and isn't tied off yet. At this point the blue carabiner is low enough to the ground I can grab it, or it's just sitting on the ground. 2. OPTIONAL STEP, I DON'T DO THIS BUT COULD IF NEEDED. Green Carabiner is thrown over an adjacent branch if there is a suitable branch. This branch would ideally pull the bag away from the anchor rope branch in a way that it doesn't slide the anchor rope off the anchor branch. 3. Blue Carabiner is attached to double loop shown on green pulley setup, it is not attached to the green pulley. 4. Anchor rope is pulled up, and then the end is secured to a tree or branch about 15' away. The Green carabiner, due to the pulleys, should sit on the ground as the pulleys are raised up. At this point the blue carabiner and the main pulley are hanging aprox 2-3 feet away from the anchor branch. When I pull the green rope, it will pull the rope junction away from the branch/tree in a horizontal plane. Which gives me a little extra bear-proofing distance. Helpful if say the anchor branch isn't 3'+ feet from the tree trunk. 5. Green carabiner is sitting on the ground, blue pulley is in the sky. When you are ready to hang your bag, attach green carabiner to food bag. 6. Pull green rope, both pulleys draw toward eachother. With two pulleys the weight on my hands is 1/3 the weight of the bag, but the rope is 3x longer. Food bag goes in the air towards blue carabiner. As you pointed out, the small diameter on your hands isn't ideal. Trade offs for weight/space! Has never been a problem for a sleeve covered hand. 7. Secure green rope. You;re right that if I use the double branch setup, I'm pulling a weight bearing rope over a branch. Because of the length of the "green" rope (50ish feet) I find that I am looking for trees to secure off that are further away, rather than a more complex setup like double branch, I still get that horizontal distance away from the anchor tree. Like I said, it's still 1/3 the weight with the pulleys, and when I have to drag a rope over a branch I don't think it adds any extra difficulty to the hang. |
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x2jmorris |
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Jaywalker |
"Still the best for the Bwca?" There are long arguments about that. Bears climb trees easily, and while I don't believe it is common, every once in a while a bear seems to learn that food hangs in trees and will try to get at it. A lot of people and some outfitters have switched to blue bear resistant barrels, and some have switched to truly bear proof canisters or Ursacks - both of which are a bit smaller but provide the highest certainty that a bear will not get your food. Whatever you do, keep a very clean camp, be super-careful about keeping food or fish odor off of the exterior of your storage device, and be vigilant about where your food supply is while in camp or cooking. |
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boonie |
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colddriver |
I put our food pack in the aluminum canoe and turn it upside down, we usually have another canoe that we lean up against the upside down one. The. We put all our pots and pans on top of both canoes so if a bear does come into camp starts nosing around and usually knocks over all the canoes and pots ,scares them away and wakes you up to help Chase them away. For day trips we just bring the food pack with...... Easy as that. |
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ozarkpaddler |
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boonie |
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drnatus |
mvillasuso: "minnmike: " Hide it in the woods last thing before you go to bed. No ropes or pulleys needed. Works great." Pretty sure he means in a barrel. Works great. Keep the barrel spotless. No food touches the outside of the barrel. |
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AmarilloJim |
I take 5 gal buckets (not bear proof) with gamma lids. I place them in the woods away from camp. I put them upside down and cover the base with pine needles. If I'm in an area known for bears (SAK, KEK) I'll use sailing pulleys to get them in the trees. |
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minnmike |
mvillasuso: "minnmike: " Hide it in the woods last thing before you go to bed. No ropes or pulleys needed. Works great." I'm not trying to be insulting, but when a person is ignorant many thing seem nonsensical. Cliff Jacobson on hanging food Keep a clean camp, and an odor free food barrel or yes pack. Stash or food a GOOD 100-200 ft from camp and put your hanging days behind you. When I go with my wife and or kids I bring my Duluth food pack with a good liner and stash it in woods. Now to be fair I don't bring fresh food, but do bring butter and peanut butter. I don't prepare my food on either pack or barrel. I haven't hung a pack or barrel in years. I have had zero problems. |
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mooseplums |
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GearGuy |
This picture just shows the bear ropes in a little stuff sack I sewed myself out of silnylon. Almost 6 oz! It consists of 2 lengths of 3mm Samson Lash-It, 2 different pulleys, both Harken Brand. It's been a few years since I worked on this project so I can't speak to exactly what kind of pulleys they are lol. Step One: Throw the blue one over the brand you want to make the best of. You can adjust how much of the blue carabiner hangs over the branch, this helps you adjust how far away you can get it from the branch once you tighten up the other pulley. Tie the end off to a tree that hopefully won't let the rope slide off the branch when you pull the other rope. Step Two which is optional: Throw the green one over another branch, or just skip this step if there isn't another "decent" branch to hang it "parallel to the ground" with. You don't tie the green rope off yet. When I rigged this up, I tied a double fishermans knot on a doubled up loop. The double fishermans is absolutely strong enough, and the breaking strength of the Lash-It is about 750 lbs so it doesn't need to be doubled up lol. I was getting fancy with it I guess lol. This is where you join the 2 sets of rope. You can see that I use the chair legs and table legs as props for my tree branches here. I realize I could do all of this without the pulleys (I'm the Gear Guy (you asked for the best)). And if I were truly concerned about weight and space, I'd keep the carabiners, and swap the pulleys out for small stainless steel rings. But, the pulleys make hauling a pack up a lot smoother. Especially when I'm lifting 5+ people's worth of food. I don't remember how much they costed. I think the black one was about $16 or something, and the silver one was like $8 or something like that. Harken products are of course sailing products, and the load strength of the pulleys is about 200 lbs each. Step Three: Connect Green Carabiner to Food Dry Bag. I use a lightweight dry bag, doesn't need to be one of those ursacks as with this system I almost always get a good hang that has the appropriate distance from a tree, and the ground. I like the rope, it's kinda stiff and works great for this. It's actually made to avoid damage from abrasion of tree branches. This past trip when we had 7 people and we were hanging food for 7 people, and we had two dry bags tied together, the wire was a bit thin for that weight, had to wrap it up in your sweater sleeve, no big deal for the size and space you save if you ask me. On the "blue end" there is about 30' of rope, this is the "fixed end" of the system. On the "Green End" there is about 50' of rope, this gives me plenty of play to make good out of far away trees. Also! I have a bearvault 550 that I use for trips in griz country. I don't use this on trips where it's just 2-3 of us, as I can fit food for that many people easily in a 12L dry bag, and hang it, and the weight of the whole food storage is <1 lb. When I bring a lot of people, I make someone carry the Bearvault. I keep day food in the bear fault, crystal light packets, all the stuff you want to get at often, and I'll trickle the dry bag food into the bear vault as the trip progresses. |
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OldScout48 |
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lskidder |
minnmike: " Hide it in the woods last thing before you go to bed. No ropes or pulleys needed. Works great." Keep a clean camp, seal up food and set the food pack some distance away. This might be nonsensical to some, but it has worked for us since 1967. |
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LDB |
Someone asked me the other day whether they should go to Thomas to avoid bears or id they could go up Knife. I told them the chance of seeing bear this year would be minimal as long the knife Lake camp site was clean. Am I correct, I have not heard of a single bear incident this year. |
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LDB |
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nofish |
I checked fairly far back into the forest for suitable trees but it just wasn't happening. I opted for the clean pack and stash method. I found a spot away from any obvious trails and I stashed the pack next to a tree. I did take my hanging rope and used it to wrap around the pack and tree to tie the pack down. I know it wouldn't stop a bear from getting what it wanted but I was hoping it would at least sway the bear into eating the food there versus dragging the pack off into the woods so I'd have an easier job cleaning up the mess if needed. In the end I had no issues. I've had to do that a few times on trips where the site I was camping at had no suitable hanging trees. For that reason I think I may be switching to a bear vault of some sort. Hanging is great but its not a 100% lock that you'll be able to hang at every site. |
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Scout64 |
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BWPaddler |
Cedarboy: "Stopped hanging years ago, am a hider now. Off trail away from camp. +1 |
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Blackdogyak |
OldScout48: "I have hung for years never had a bear in camp (that we know of). I use a 3 rope method that can be varied somewhat, but this is what seems to work best. The throw rope is 550 paracord that is attached to a lacrosse ball with a hole drilled through the center. The lacrosse ball is tossed over a high limb, the higher the better. The paracord is attached one end of 1st 50' 3/8 " polypropylene cord with a loop in one end attached to a carabiner. Start pulling on the ball end of the paracord and pull the polypropylene cord up and over the limb. Before you pull too far attach the 2nd 50' 3/8" polypropylene cord with a loop on one end to the carabiner. The 3rd 50' 3/8 polypropylene cord threaded through the carabiner (this becomes a simple pulley system to lift the food pack), continue to pull rope #1 utill the carbiner is maybe 10 ' from the 1st tree ( you need eyeball this). Now take the 2nd rope and pull it to a 2nd tree. If you have picked the right limb you do not need to toss the 2nd rope over a limb, but you could if you wished. Now adjust both ropes (#1 and #2) to keep the carabiner where you want it. Tie off rope #1 and then pull on rope #2 and tie it off. If you have done everything correctly the 3rd rope should be hanging from the carabiner 12' to 15' above ground. Now to lift you food pack just tie one end of rope #3 to the pack and pull in up. You could use additional carabiners or pulleys on rope #3 to help make the lifting easier." I appreciate your detailed explanation. I have started to adopt a system like this. I got a 50' 3/8" arborists rope. I felt a bit awkward about this because that darn rope is pretty heavy and bulky. Bit I knew it had to be strong. Having THREE of these would seriously be a lot of weight and volume. This really works? Another thing I was wondering about these systems is whether bears can see and smell the line tied off the the tree at chest height, and they just claw it until.it breaks and the yummy pinata comes falling down. This is the premise of the Pacific Crest Trail Method. The line is left dangling and not tied off to a tree where the bear can claw at it. |
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Blackdogyak |
BWPaddler: "Cedarboy: "Stopped hanging years ago, am a hider now. Off trail away from camp. But how does that help? The bear can still smell the food just as if it were located next to your tent? It just means the bear gets to eat dinner and won't be ten feet away from you when he does. And also, we are not just concerned about bears, right? Raccoons, porcupines, martins and even mice can chew holes in a dry bag and destroy food. |
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mjmkjun |
straighthairedcurly: "The problem people have with trees is they expect to find the "perfect" hanging tree where they can hang it out on a limb. They should be looking for 2 trees 20 plus feet apart. We carry long sturdy ropes and some pulleys (which we use sometimes if we need more leverage or to decrease friction when raising the pack). That bear attempt(s) would be fun to watch...or catch on video. |
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rwskis |
Quetico trips, where typical campsite use is less than in the BWCA. Even there we always look first, before even locating tent sites, if there is suitable branch for the bear rope. It's not often easy to find such a branch. One tip: We have a separate throw line with a shot bag for throwing the rope (available from Forestry Supplier or similar retailer). It's much safer and if used with a special throw line(not easily tangled and available from where you buy your shot bag) It will be much easier. |
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okinaw55 |
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