Boundary Waters Quetico Forum :: Listening Point - General Discussion :: Anger forgot how to count and a fish or two over limit-WHO'S COUNTING?
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timatkn |
mutz: "I don’t really think the culling is enforced. If anyone has ever watched a bass or walleye tournament, culling is just part of catching the heaviest limit you can catch. It wouldn’t seem fair to let the professionals do it and ticket the week-end fisherman." **edited**see my next post, the info I originally had was incorrect. T |
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nctry |
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minnmike |
GeoFisher: "What about these fish camps, that catch a limit every day and take them home to wherever.......I can almost guarantee they are breeaking the possession limits. Ah, wardens don't need no stinking warrant. But I do agree with you that you should be able to have a few days possession in your house. |
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tonyyarusso |
WhiteWolf: "scat: "I found that out a couple years ago. A possession limit includes what is in your freezer. Seems weird, but I guess it makes sense. Eat what you have then go from there. What is the sense of stockpiling fish in the freezer." That's correct in Minnesota, yes. They can count carcasses to see if you're over. For *most* fish the daily bag limit and the possession limit are identical, meaning that if the limit is 6 walleye and you have 3 in your freezer at home, you can catch 3 and then you're done. If you eat 2 of those 3, you're still done for the day, but the next day you can catch 2 more. There are some species that have larger possession limits than daily limits, namely perch (20 daily, but 40 possession). I have no idea why perch are different from everything else. Hunting regulations get a little more complicated, as there it's very common to have a higher possession limit than the daily bag limit. For non-migratory small game most of the possession limits are two days worth of daily limits, e.g. 10 & 20 for rabbit/hare, 5 & 10 for ruffed/spruce grouse, and 7 & 14 for squirrel. It's not across the board though, as the possession limit is triple the daily for pheasant and still just one for turkey. Meanwhile, the possession limits for migratory birds are three times their daily bag limits. As far as I know, big game is treated differently, and you are allowed to have some still in the freezer from last year. The regulations only seem to use the term "bag limit", and not daily or possession. I believe this is related to the more stringent tagging and registration procedures for those, but I'm not as familiar with those regs yet, so take with a grain of salt. |
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Pinetree |
Canoearoo: "thistlekicker: "Canoearoo: "how would you do a big family fish fry with this freezer rule? just curious " In the 80's most species you were allowed twice your daily limit in possession. Actually many of the changes came when residents started complaining about non residents taking too many fish home(just stating what local anglers claimed). Much of that started up by the lake of the woods. Probably in the 80's. Most Church fish fry is commercial fish. The perch change because of Lake Winnbegosh(sp) at one time it was unlimited perch. Again residents complained about people from Fargo N.D. and Illinois were coming up in the winter and staying in mobile homes on the lake or at a resort and were taking bathtub loads home(the words of resident anglers-and was some truth to that). There was a commercial selling of them in Illinois-Chicago that was traced down also. Than the limit went to 100 than downward over the years as perch size decreased and it was also recognized the perch was as a forage food for walleye and northern pike. |
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ZaraSp00k |
Chieflonewatie: "That is something they couldn't prove even if they tried. I'm using a jig and a leach catching walleye, northerns, and bass. What fish am I targeting." it doesn't matter what you are targeting, it matters how many are in your possession, if you have a limit and you catch another one, it better be released immediately in the water or you have just broken the law, a cranky officer might give you a citation even for having it on your line if he has observed you stringer sorting I'm not sure if it is still the case but some people when they get another on the line they figure is bigger than a previous one release one from their possession before they real in the other to be safe IMO, if you are going to do something like that keep one fewer than possesion and keep catch and release until the last one but I know, some fisherman are greedy and will break the law |
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tonyyarusso |
The rules actually specifically spell out this particular scenario: "Once a person or persons fishing as a party as provided in Minnesota Statutes, section 97C.317, retain a daily limit for a species, all fish of that species that are subsequently taken must be immediately released into the water after capture." - M.R. 6262.0100, Subpart 5, paragraph C. Note that "immediately released" is defined elsewhere: "Immediately released" or "immediately returned to the water" means that a fish must not be retained longer than is needed at the site of capture to unhook, identify, measure, or photograph the fish. Placing a fish on a stringer, in a live well, or in a cooler, bucket, or other container is not "immediately released" or "immediately returned to the water." - M.S. 97A.015, Subdivision 26c. |
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Chieflonewatie |
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Pinetree |
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mutz |
scat: "What is the possession limit for walleye right now in Mn. 5. Yeah, I’m so sure all those boys with their big Lund boats are worried about that. Mama says, five fish? Kiddin me, we got six mouths to feed. And you promised a fish fry for mom and dad and the family this weekend. What do you need that big boat taking up space in my driveway with a payment due every month if all we can eat is five fish at a time. Catch and release, can’t even do that. Get another hobby dude. I live on a walleye lake in Michigan, my fishing boat is only a 21 footer, my wife and I both have licenses so I could have twenty walleye in my freezer, I have 12 or 13 we didn’t keep any walleye today as we have enough but we did catch some. Just sayin everyone on a walleye lake with a boat doesn’t have 50 walleye in the freezer. |
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thegildedgopher |
and earlier "Admitting here I have no idea what the limits are but lets pretend I am over in this scenario." I just think going fishing without having any idea what the limits are is problematic. |
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scat |
Point being, you could prob check the freezers of every house next to walleye lake in Mn with a big boat in the driveway and 90% will be over a 5 walleye possession limit. Gimme a break. |
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Canoearoo |
thistlekicker: "Canoearoo: "how would you do a big family fish fry with this freezer rule? just curious " Once a year my grandfather would have a big family gathering and have a huge fish fry for 100 people on his farm. He caught all the fish on the river on his farm and freeze them in his freezer. When I asked my dad about limits he said the same as this, we all would be way more than what he had, yet before the fish fry I'm sure his freezer wasn't legal? Maybe back then (80s) the rules were simpler. I know you could have a lot more fish back then then today. Also maybe now a days you can apply for a special permit like the churches do? |
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nctry |
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ZaraSp00k |
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Bearpath9 |
walllee: "Guys like this should never be able to fish or hunt anywhere in America ever again! Stories like this make my blood boil!!" What you said. I hope that they confiscated his boat, truck, and the freezer. What is wrong with people? |
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mutz |
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Northwoodsman |
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Pinetree |
mutz: "I don’t really think the culling is enforced. If anyone has ever watched a bass or walleye tournament, culling is just part of catching the heaviest limit you can catch. It wouldn’t seem fair to let the professionals do it and ticket the week-end fisherman." I think it would be if they actually catch you doing it. I don't think a tournament in Minnesota would get a official bye on it. Tournaments might do it and not enforced? One thing which is new and the way tournaments should be run. They measure and weigh the fish immediatly(sp) it is recorded via Ipad or computer and a video-picture is taken which goes to the control center. Some places you can sit on shore with your beer and watch the weigh in being recorded and have a automatic active leaderboard. The fish is released where caught and is not in the boat for many hours and transported many miles from where caught. I think it will be the wave of tournament futures. |
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thebotanyguy |
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walllee |
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GeoFisher |
minnmike: "GeoFisher: "What about these fish camps, that catch a limit every day and take them home to wherever.......I can almost guarantee they are breeaking the possession limits. I think warrant less search by a Conservation Officer is a state by state issue........Many states allow it........Many do NOT.......I get your point though... Again, NO GAME WARDEN is searching my home without a warrant. Check that....No Law enforcement person, period is searching my home with out a warrant. |
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Pinetree |
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keegan99usa |
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timatkn |
Pinetree: "Once you reach your daily or possession limit of fish, you can’t release fish already caught and kept and replace them with other fish. See culling definition on page I think we are saying the same thing, unless you think any fish caught is considered kept? Kept means the fish has been put in a bucket, livewell, stringer etc..., fish you release right away don’t count against a limit. Sometimes I catch 10 fish that are too big or little before I get one keeper for example. None of the fish I release right away count as in possession. T |
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K52 |
walllee: "Guys like this should never be able to fish or hunt anywhere in America ever again! Stories like this make my blood boil!!" Most states ( 47 I think) are part of a compact that enforces penalties meted out by member states. For however long that guy loses his license in his home state, that will apply in all other states, he can't buy licenses in other states. |
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x2jmorris |
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Pinetree |
nctry: "scat: "I found that out a couple years ago. A possession limit includes what is in your freezer. Seems weird, but I guess it makes sense. Eat what you have then go from there. What is the sense of stockpiling fish in the freezer." Maybe he knew more than us,like muskrats building a large house. Its going to be one hard winter. |
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Jaywalker |
"A lot of anglers ... don't understand how long it takes to grow a big, 9- or 10-inch sunfish. A bluegill that size can be 10 years old. In the same time it takes to grow a trophy sunfish, you can grow two or three trophy white-tailed deer bucks. |
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Pinetree |
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Chieflonewatie |
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Chieflonewatie |
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Pinetree |
rtallent: "A bit of math indicates he had about 56 daily limits in his freezer, processed. While I agree that is a huge amount, I wasn't aware of the limit applying to your freezer at home... So, if you are catching and processing panfish in Michigan, you cannot have more than 50 processed panfish frozen in your freezer on any one day, is how I interpret the article? Note, I am NOT defending the guy, I just didn't know how this works. Or maybe it was simply that they had him exceeding his daily limit on the sum of morning and afternoon catches, and the confiscation of the frozen fish was just part of the penalty... " Minnesota is that way also. Your freezer is part of your possession. |
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rtallent |
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tonyyarusso |
GeoFisher: "thistlekicker: "Canoearoo: "how would you do a big family fish fry with this freezer rule? just curious " It depends. Minnesota RESIDENT youth under the age of 16 are entitled to their own possession limit and may fish without their parent or guardian having any license, so long as the youth is the one holding the rod, setting the hook, and reeling in the fish. NON-resident youth depend on what type of license was purchased. They are allowed to fish without a license of their own if their parent or guardian has an individual non-resident license, but in that scenario their fish count toward the parent or guardian's limit. However, if a "family" license is purchased or if the youth buys their own separate non-resident youth license, then they get their own limits. |
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scat |
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nctry |
scat: "I found that out a couple years ago. A possession limit includes what is in your freezer. Seems weird, but I guess it makes sense. Eat what you have then go from there. What is the sense of stockpiling fish in the freezer." I agree, I’m not one for fish out of the freezer. He was set to eat well for a while. |
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missmolly |
nctry: "scat: "I found that out a couple years ago. A possession limit includes what is in your freezer. Seems weird, but I guess it makes sense. Eat what you have then go from there. What is the sense of stockpiling fish in the freezer." I'd think otherwise, Ben. It would take a long time to eat that many fish and by the time you got to the end, a lot of them would be freezer damaged. |
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x2jmorris |
thegildedgopher: "I'd like to hear from jmorris because his words seems pretty clear. " I go fishing roughly 5-8 times a year so........ if I had (I have no idea of limits) the limit of say walleye in my freezer)" Yes you read what I wrote correctly. I go fishing with a few others and we keep about 2 fish a night and eat them that night as a side to our main dinner. Most times them being pike but a walleye every once in a while. I do not know what the limits are but I do know I am not over. |
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thegildedgopher |
x2jmorris: "thegildedgopher: "I'd like to hear from jmorris because his words seems pretty clear. " I go fishing roughly 5-8 times a year so........ if I had (I have no idea of limits) the limit of say walleye in my freezer)" I understand that you're not raping the fishery in any way. You're not a poacher but that doesn't mean you're not vulnerable to a citation for not knowing the rules. In the BWCA in general the pike limit is 2, and all between 30-40 inches must be released immediately. There are other lakes with specific harvest slots or protected slots (Basswood being one, 24-36 protected slot) and anything on the border could be different as well. Things change every year. It takes half an hour to read the current regs, more like 5 minutes if you know what you're looking for. If that's too much, just have Siri read you the PDF on the way in the car. Could save you some embarrassment and a nice fine. |
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rtallent |
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x2jmorris |
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thegildedgopher |
x2jmorris: "I mean you are not wrong Gildedgopher. I would have been alright this year on the 30-40s. I have searched in the past for specific lakes like Basswood so I was prepared for that lake back when I went there. The 30-40 thing is kind of crazy to me. I don't think I would ever keep anything over a 30 inch pike myself. That is too much meat for my needs. Something along a 25 inch would be perfect. I also never bring any home to freeze. Only eat fish on my 3-4 trips to the bwca a year and then some at my cabin." I hear ya. You're basically self-policing which in a perfect world would be enough. The regs get tricky. 23-27 inch pike have always been considered "perfect eaters" in my group -- well that will get you into trouble in the "north central" zone of Minnesota now. You can keep 10 northerns but all from 22 to 26 inches must be released, and only two can be over 26 inches. (this applies to hook and line fishing only, not spearing). |
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Pinetree |
Jaywalker: "There was an interesting article in the DNR's Minnesota Conservation Volunteer, May-June 2019 edition , that talked about the decreasing size of sunfish. The statement below struck me... Bluegills in north central and northern Minnesota grow about one inch a year. A 7-8 inch bluegill is about 7 years old. A 9-10 inch crappie-about age 5. A walleye 14.5inches is usually around 4 years old. Bass a 14 inch bass 5-6 years old. Northern pike are the fast growers and a 22 inch northern pike is like 3-4 years old. A 20 inch lake trout probably 9 years old. Many waters of the MN inland lakes where motor boat accessible and modern gear especially some of the new locators-I know people in like tournaments their gear is so good they just drive around the whole lake with fish finders like commercial fishermen and locate the fish and sit on them and fish them hard. Walleye are especially getting cropped down in size with the high harvest rates. It would be interesting to figure out fishing pressure is in the BWCA. I do know on lake trout they are being effected in size and numbers. Other species? |
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Pinetree |
Chieflonewatie: "I'm not sure that is true you can keep fishing after you have your limit. You just have to release it as soon as you land it." I think Zara is right if your on the water. |
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Pinetree |
rtallent: "Thanks, I did not know this stuff. (Not that I am anywhere close to that; maybe have two game fish meals in the freezer). Does that apply for folks who take venison, etc.? (I don't hunt, but could see folks having some left over from a previous year)" Good question. Like 20-30 years ago in Minnesota you were supposed to have last years venison used up by a certain date. That was done away with. Yes you need the appropiate(sp) deer tag in your possession. |
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cowdoc |
rtallent: "Thanks, I did not know this stuff. (Not that I am anywhere close to that; maybe have two game fish meals in the freezer). Does that apply for folks who take venison, etc.? (I don't hunt, but could see folks having some left over from a previous year)" Applies to small game also......ducks, pheasants, rabbits. You're not supposed to be stockpiling game in your freezer. |
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mutz |
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x2jmorris |
Some people are plain crazy and stockpile like no other but I would believe the majority stays within reason/law. |
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mutz |
nctry: "Another Canadian regulation... Ontario anyways, if two or more are fishing technically you can only keep a limit you caught. You couldn’t catch your limit and half or all of mine too. Pretty hard to enforce. But I’ve had them swoop in their float planes out of no where. We never had a problem but you never know.... very stealthy if they want to be. Personally I don’t need that much fish in my freezer. And Miss Molly, I thought of the freezer burn thing too. I was guessing he bagged them up better then I ever could." I pat dry my fish then vacuum seal them, recently found a bag of perch over a year old and they were still good. |
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missmolly |
A. Glutton? B. Criminal? C. Both! |
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mutz |
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Canoearoo |
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WhiteWolf |
scat: "I found that out a couple years ago. A possession limit includes what is in your freezer. Seems weird, but I guess it makes sense. Eat what you have then go from there. What is the sense of stockpiling fish in the freezer." Pretty sure a possession limit also includes any fish consumed that "day"- hence daily possession limits. I have seen this rule in Ontario enforced to the "T". |
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thegildedgopher |
x2jmorris: "Obviously there are extremes. I go fishing roughly 5-8 times a year so........ if I had (I have no idea of limits) the limit of say walleye in my freezer (I have no freezer for this...mine is full of popsicles and crap). It doesn't necessarily hurt if I keep 2 or 3 fish when I am out and eat them. Are you honestly admitting to going fishing, keeping fish, and having literally no idea how many it’s legal to keep? |
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KarlBAndersen1 |
missmolly: "nctry: "scat: "I found that out a couple years ago. A possession limit includes what is in your freezer. Seems weird, but I guess it makes sense. Eat what you have then go from there. What is the sense of stockpiling fish in the freezer." Some people stock up on them for large group fish fries. Some Super Bowl party is going to be upset. |
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Chieflonewatie |
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timatkn |
“Once you reach your daily or possession limit of fish, you can’t release fish already caught and kept and replace them with other fish. See culling definition on page 13.” That is an important distinction. Although I may disagree with it, it appears some form of culling is legal in Minnesota as long as you haven’t reached your daily or possession limit. T |
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timatkn |
Pinetree: "Chieflonewatie: "I'm not sure that is true you can keep fishing after you have your limit. You just have to release it as soon as you land it." I agree with chieflonewatie (awesome name BTW) I am pretty sure this is wrong. Not something I typically need to worry about:) but I can see no law that prohibits catch and release after you reach your limit. Maybe I am missing it? For all practical purposes most people quite fishing or never reach their limit according to DNR studies. The law does state you cannot cull or exchange fish. That is once a fish is put in the livewell or stringer it is considered part of your possession limit whether you release the fish or not. The reason being delayed mortality goes up once you decide to keep the fish—-especially if you try to release it from a stringer. I am sure this rule is violated quite often unknowingly. In the whole scheme of things I don’t think it has a lot of effect on the fishery so not getting bent out of shape about people doing it but not feeling sorry for people who get fined either. T |
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timatkn |
x2jmorris: "Obviously there are extremes. I go fishing roughly 5-8 times a year so........ if I had (I have no idea of limits) the limit of say walleye in my freezer (I have no freezer for this...mine is full of popsicles and crap). It doesn't necessarily hurt if I keep 2 or 3 fish when I am out and eat them. I agree with your previous post about in a perfect world rule shouldn’t be necessary. The rule is mostly in place for people like the guy busted in the article. Also I have seen small lakes ruined in a year when there is a hot bite. People catch their limit, go eat it, catch their limit again, go in a freeze it, and then catch another limit. It becomes contagious. If that guy is doing it then maybe I better get mine now too. Pretty soon the lake is ruined for a few years. I have seen it happen on some small lakes I fish, and I have proudly turned in people for doing it. If you read old DNR accounts about Red Lake, you will see it wasn’t just Native netting that collapsed the walleye fishery. Once the natives started netting....regular anglers started keeping multiple limits. The DNR was handing out fines like crazy but couldn’t keep up. Like I said when the bite is hot it destroys the fishery so they have some cut off. T |
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blutofish1 |
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Gadfly |
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ZaraSp00k |
thegildedgopher: " he admits to not seeing a difference between what is the law, and what is in his opinion, reasonable I think the thread may have been deleted, but it was surprising to read all the people that thought it was OK to dump fish remains in the lake, despite it clearly saying in the regs that it is not legal in MN or WI it may be OK in other places, they have strange habits like dumping their Xmas trees in water to attract fish |
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Pinetree |
Timikin I will check further if you can still fish for the same species? I am not sure either way? |
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MikeinMpls |
walllee: "Guys like this should never be able to fish or hunt anywhere in America ever again! Stories like this make my blood boil!!" Agreed. Never hunt or fish again. Make the ban reciprocal across all the states. Mike |
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missmolly |
thebotanyguy: "So I have no fish in my freezer, and I want to have fish for dinner. That means I HAVE to go fishing! Oh the humanity! Will my suffering never end!" Funny! |
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thistlekicker |
Canoearoo: "how would you do a big family fish fry with this freezer rule? just curious " One possession limit per license holder. And I believe if you're under 15 but a parent/guardian has a license, that kid also gets a possession limit. My wife and I buy fishing licenses, and our two kids are under the age of 15. Technically, we can have 4 possession limits in our freezer. That goes a long ways towards a big family fish fry. |
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mutz |
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GeoFisher |
thistlekicker: "Canoearoo: "how would you do a big family fish fry with this freezer rule? just curious " Actually, your minor kids count TOWARDS your possession limit, I believe. |
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missmolly |
The poacher who'd hoarded 56 daily limits, if he cooks those fish in oil, will have his comeuppance in coming or current heart disease, atop hurting the fishery that feeds him. |
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thegildedgopher |
missmolly: "Is there anyone here who has ever exceeded a speed limit going fishing or going home other than me? My point is the old Biblical mote and log, i.e. we all break the law, again and again. True, nobody's perfect. It's the complete lack of an attempt to even understand the regulations that has a bee in my bonnet today. I can't imagine knowing that there is a public document that takes half an hour to read that will tell me how to be a good steward of our resources and follow the laws, and just choosing not to educate myself. Even if a person keeps only 1 fish it might be an illegal fish that could've been easily avoided by simply knowing the rules. |
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GeoFisher |
I kind of agree with the possession limits, but I also disagree. The possession limits are in place for the meat harvesters that want to take a limit every day, and put them in the freeezer and then forget about them.........BUT, if I want to have a few gallon bags of gills in my freezer, and that means I have more than 2 days of fishing limits in my freezer....SO BE IT. Ain't no game warden coming to my freakin home to check without a warrant anyways. |