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09/12/2019 10:59AM |
ZaraSp00k: "FYI, an average of exactly two hunters (40) die each year from being shot by themselves or others over the last twenty years
danger in the woods
exactly zero people have been killed by wolves or bears over this time
so maybe you should carry a weapon while outside in MN, but not for animals, for defense agin' other people "
Your posts got me wondering about the greatest threat to hunters in the woods and it's, as I suspected, not falling from tree stands, which kill many more hunters than guns, or exposure or drowning, but heart disease, often driven by decades of gluttony and sloth:
The #1 danger that’s killing U.S. deer hunters
We’ve covered a handful of potentially deadly hazards that every hunter should consider before heading out to the fields, forests, and wetlands in search of a buck buck or other quarry.
But there is one still one killer in the woods that takes down more deer hunters every year any of these dangers. Do you know what it is?
This lethal force stalks hunters and strikes them down suddenly, painfully, and with little to no warning.
It can strike dead even the most cautious and experienced of hunters.
This #1 hunter killer is so common that it often makes fewer headlines than some of the more dramatic but equally fatal risks named above involving firearms, tree stands, fire, or motor vehicle – though it has been covered thoroughly by HeadlineHealth.com, the publisher of the manual you are now reading.
We’re talking about the risk that while going to, hunting in, or returning from the field, a hunter will experience a widow-maker – a fatal heart attack.
Heart disease causes 614,348 deaths per year, reports Medical News Today.
A surprisingly large number of those deaths occur while hunting.
Heart attacks are the cause of hunter fatalities most sportsmen think will never happen to them and their buddies.
Heart disease is America’s number #1 killer of all races and both genders.
It is the third leading killer of 35-44 year olds, second leading killer of 45-64 year olds, and the #1 killer of those over 65.
It’s also the leading killer of hunters. For more on heart attacks and hunting, we look to the globally respected health experts at Mayo Clinic.
Taking a few minutes to read through their suggestions could one day save your life or that of a loved on or hunting buddy …
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09/14/2019 08:57AM |
That humerus-to-humerus comparison is jaw-dropping!
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09/06/2019 01:30PM |
riverrunner: "missmolly: "riverrunner: "
Some days one needs all the help on can get"
I'm here for ya, ol' buddy! ;-)"
Just like I am here for you if you ever want to learn how to shoot."
I paddle and portage with an M114 155 mm howitzer. Simply firing a few shells in any direction at dusk seems to keep the critters away.
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09/06/2019 01:37PM |
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09/12/2019 10:12AM |
danger in the woods
exactly zero people have been killed by wolves or bears over this time
so maybe you should carry a weapon while outside in MN, but not for animals, for defense agin' other people
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09/07/2019 10:08AM |
missmolly: "Mr. Morris, my dad and I found an abandoned fishing camp once and I wrote about it for Gray's Sporting Journal. Here's an excerpt from the essay:
Decades later, my dad and I found a fishing camp. It was clear that no one was returning to it, as those not-easily transportable things of value were gone, the boats and motors. Even the refrigerator had been lugged and flown away; a dusty square marked where it had been. The stove remained, its base filigreed with rust. What remained was the sauna, bunkhouse, a little lodge, and empty fuel tanks, along with some saggy couches and chairs.
What confirmed its abandonment was the guest book had been left in a heap of paper, which mostly comprised newish fishing magazines with cover titles like, “37 Surefire ways to Catch Smallmouth Bass!” In that book, those who loved the camp wrote about fish caught, laughs had, and moose, loons, and eagles seen. But that book meant nothing to the last person out the door, less than a used refrigerator. They weren’t coming back, which is why it was our duty to spend a couple hours reading every guest book entry aloud and then centered it on the coffee table, removing the magazines to frame it with sacred space.
Nowadays, my father couldn’t reach that fishing camp. He’s too wobbly for the pitched Canadian Shield granite. So, I often go alone. When I was young and limber, I’d rise around sunrise. No more; I rise at four, when the sleeping bag is warmest and the day is coolest. I go because the gloaming, unlike me, is still young and the bass are ready to rise in the hushing fog.
"
That is really nicely written Missmolly, thanks for that. I would have done the same thing with reading all of it.
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09/06/2019 01:22PM |
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09/06/2019 01:23PM |
Edit: Nope that didn't work
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09/12/2019 07:39AM |
Bushpilot: "I could list a number bear and wolf attacks in Minnesota recently. "
The only bear death in MN happened in 1965. There has never been a death from wolves.
Bushpilot: "There may have never been a confirmed wolf kill in Minnesota. Yet I can tell from first hand experience there are two families whos loved one went into the woods and never came out alive. Both just off the Echo trail. They feel wolves killed their loved ones. No one has ruled out that these two incidents were not wolf kills. "
There have been a number of hunters who went into the woods and never came back, for example a couple years ago near Nemadji, then there was the guy a few years before that who was found shot, his gun missing. Here in MN you are at a far greater danger from people than animals.
The SHT is never closed due to danger from animals, but it closes every year during the deer hunting season. The danger from a trigger happy hunter with buck fever is just too great, not to mention that many are lickered up, and a few others are psychopaths who just want to shoot something.
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09/12/2019 07:49AM |
I recall as a kid in Colorado that mountainsides would be completely covered with elk or deer. This is where CWD started, and it is where wolf populations were most severely impacted by human development. With traditionally high wolf populations they were killed to extinction. Now we are paying the price for that.
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09/13/2019 10:51AM |
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09/27/2019 12:24PM |
riverrunner: "The trouble with edge weapons is the close distance one has to be to use them effectively. "
And that is exactly why they are superior to a firearm
The weapons of wolves, bears, mountain lions are their teeth and paws, so consequently they have to be close to cause damage. In the BWCA, the area that is the topic of discussion, they will be upon you before you realize you are in danger. Typically you can't see what's in the woods 15 feet away from you so a ski/hiking pole or a machete that you have in your hand is immediately available.
The beauty is that you already have a pole, a paddle or a machete in your hand. Unlike a firearm, which is extra baggage and will be useless about 99.99999999999999% of the time, except for that one in a million chance an animal decides you'd make a tasty meal.
This is why, rather than a duel at thirty paces, I suggest a duel at thirty inches to end the argument.
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09/27/2019 12:59PM |
ZaraSp00k: "riverrunner: "The trouble with edge weapons is the close distance one has to be to use them effectively. "
And that is exactly why they are superior to a firearm
The weapons of wolves, bears, mountain lions are their teeth and paws, so consequently they have to be close to cause damage. In the BWCA, the area that is the topic of discussion, they will be upon you before you realize you are in danger. Typically you can't see what's in the woods 15 feet away from you so a ski/hiking pole or a machete that you have in your hand is immediately available.
The beauty is that you already have a pole, a paddle or a machete in your hand. Unlike a firearm, which is extra baggage and will be useless about 99.99999999999999% of the time, except for that one in a million chance an animal decides you'd make a tasty meal.
This is why, rather than a duel at thirty paces, I suggest a duel at thirty inches to end the argument.
"
Totally unadulterated BS.
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09/05/2019 08:11PM |
"Wolves are not human they don't have or use common sense."
If you define common sense as the ability to learn from experience and apply that learning to behavior in subsequent experience, I think wolves do have (as do dogs) common sense. If you take the definition farther, as to unlearned possibilities, perhaps not. If you mean an innate ("instinctual") behavior not to attack humans, that is more iffy, as the rare events show. And yes, there will be individuals in any species far from the norm in above respects, for genetic or environmental reasons ; I have seen it in dogs badly mistreated, but plenty of other examples....
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09/13/2019 06:51AM |
riverrunner: "The 44mag seems to be the down right favorite handgun caliber for beat defense. There is good reasons for that. Plus it will work well in most areas that a handgun is needed."
I'm not disputing that, but the woman in Alaska that was killed by a bear along with her daughter carried a 44mag when she'd go outside to do her chores, some may think, ahh yes, a woman, but she had more experience living in the wild than all of us put together.
You can train all you want, but you can't train for every situation
I picked up a new scope last night, one with a 50mm (with diaptor adjustment) lens that will replace the 40m on my .30-06, which will go on my .22. I have high mount scope rings for the .22 that will allow me to use the iron sights when needed. I thought I'd post a pic, then I thought, what the H, I'll show my entire arsenal, sans ammo, I never leave a gun around the house loaded, but as you can see the magazines are
The 9mm looks more like a toy , doesn't it?
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09/06/2019 10:51AM |
Some days one needs all the help on can get
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09/06/2019 01:05PM |
missmolly: "riverrunner: "
Some days one needs all the help on can get"
I'm here for ya, ol' buddy! ;-)"
Just like I am here for you if you ever want to learn how to shoot.
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09/03/2019 12:58PM |
GopherAdventure: "Amazing! Especially since only 5% of gray wolves are black in color. Seeing a black wolf is so rare, I’d be buying a lottery ticket if I were you! Way to go.
Tony
"
The one and only wolf I've ever seen out in the wild was a black wolf. I was amazed by its size and speed.
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09/03/2019 12:58PM |
MidwestMan: "GopherAdventure: "Amazing! Especially since only 5% of gray wolves are black in color. Seeing a black wolf is so rare, I’d be buying a lottery ticket if I were you! Way to go.
Tony
"
The one and only wolf I've ever seen out in the wild was a black wolf. I was amazed by its size and speed."
I should have mentioned - this was on the Gunflint Trail about 5 years ago.
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09/08/2019 08:33PM |
x2jmorris: "I think I'd go bigger than 9mm if I was going to carry for protection from wolves... though 19 cents each is hard to beat lol"
I would feel very well armed with a 9mm against wolves.
The key is good bullet placement more then size. The ability to know when and the willingness to use it very important also.
One of the big advantages of a 9mm the ammo for it is some of the cheapest center fire pistol ammo you can buy.
I have seen recently good quality practice ammo for under 8 dollars a box of 50.
For 25 dollars that 150 rounds used in good quality practice and not blasting one could really improve their pistol handling skills.
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09/18/2019 10:12AM |
x2jmorris: "Iron sights are the way to go imo"
I agree, the only reason my ought six has one is that's the way it came and I got it on sale for the cost of one that doesn't have a scope, so I figured why not, that and the .22 are mostly for target shooting
in reality, the 12 ga is my deer hunting rifle, it has the shorty barrel, lighter weight, short barrel in the dense woods is a plus
if I were in MT, WY, the Dakota's, or even W MN the scope and ought six would be the favored tool
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09/06/2019 04:26PM |
You sound very negative about firearms in most of your posts.
So you own 4 firearms but it sure doesn't sound like you are comfortable with them.
Could be a personnel problem that you do not have enough confidence with your abilities that it shows up as a negative attitude in your posts.
Sounds like you might have personal anger issues wishing you had sent a couple of slugs through his pick up'
That would be a very good reason not to carry a firearm
I hunted all over the US and in Canada and hunted many others who haven't had any of these problems.
For anyone person to have more then one issue or stories makes me highly suspicious.
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09/13/2019 10:04AM |
That is a personal issue that one can only decide to do for themselves.
But people who want to improve their skill levels practice, train and a lot of times seek professional instructors to help them improve.
People who don't train, practice or try and improve themselves.
Can come up with many reasons they do not have to.
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09/13/2019 10:18AM |
ZaraSp00k: "riverrunner: "The 44mag seems to be the down right favorite handgun caliber for beat defense. There is good reasons for that. Plus it will work well in most areas that a handgun is needed."
I'm not disputing that, but the woman in Alaska that was killed by a bear along with her daughter carried a 44mag when she'd go outside to do her chores, some may think, ahh yes, a woman, but she had more experience living in the wild than all of us put together.
You can train all you want, but you can't train for every situation
I?"
Are you talking about this one no pistol involved .
Woman and daughter
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09/05/2019 07:27AM |
riverrunner: "There are approximately 300,000 carry permits issued in MN just a small number."
so 1 out of 20 people in MN have a carry permit, how many actually carry?
I own a Ruger EC9s, a very nice carry, but I haven't bothered to get a permit because I know I'd rarely actually carry it. In fact, IMO, it would cause me more problems than it would solve.
I've spent the last 40+ years lessening my load, whittling away pounds, then ounces, to carry only the things I deem necessary to travel in the back country. Adding a 17 ounce pistol and whatever 8 9mm cartridges weigh would set me back probably ten years or more.
That I have managed to survive all these years, working downtown Mpls, Milwaukee, St Louis and often in the wee hours of the night, and out in the wild without one, ... I just haven't felt the same fear as you apparently.
I feel my poles are more than adequate for wolves, a paddle a bit lacking perhaps against a bear in the extreme rare instance where I might need it.
Luckily, wolves are smart, between their common sense and mine, I am fairly confident we can exist without getting into a scuffle.
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09/04/2019 09:31AM |
riverrunner: "Just like the DNR no mention of firearms in their ways to stay safe from wolves.
"
probably because few people carry a firearm
I was on the SHT this past weekend, in the winter it is always interesting to study the tracks, it is rare for me to see deer tracks on the trail, but their tracks crossing it are everywhere. I also see a lot of wolf tracks, they occasionally follow the trail for a short distance.
Of the 5 other groups I encountered on the trail, three of them had dogs, all unleashed. One of the groups as soon as they realized my presence called the dog to them, it was a well trained dog, it immediately returned to them, another had their dog next to them and held it off the trail, the other group the dog ran to me and the people did nothing.
Guess which group later in the day when I encountered them at the parking lot asked me if I had seen their dog?
It looked like it would make a nice meal for a pack of about 4 or 5 wolves, it was a large poodle of some kind.
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09/07/2019 09:07AM |
riverrunner: "If one can get a few miles off the road system in Canada one can find lakes that haven't been fished in a long time."
Exactly, RR. However, I continue to be amazed at how many have preceded me, albeit a long time ago. I find so many abandoned boats on Canadian lakes, literally being swallowed by the Earth. If you can pry one free and launch it, it invariably leaks...a lot! The wooden ones are down to their ribs. The men who lugged them through the woods grew old and likely died, leaving their beloved boats behind. Here's one. Looking at the hull design and the manufacturing of it, I'm guessing it's from the 1930s. You can just see the nose of my canoe on the right side of the pic. I tried to lift that boat to see inside it, but the Earth wouldn't let go of its hold. At the other end of the portage (There was no trail anymore.), there was another boat, one of those wooden boats that was just ribs.
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09/05/2019 12:51PM |
ones that said Dorian was going to hit directly on Florida?
If you watched this on cnn they labeled Alabama as "Mississippi" on their map during coverage. Now that was laughable!!!
Some of you need to let this Trump thing go, get him out of your head..... it has nothing to do with wolves.
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09/05/2019 01:15PM |
missmolly: "Worth reading again: "Adding a 17 ounce pistol and whatever 8 9mm cartridges weigh would set me back probably ten years or more.""
That's the reason he doesn't carry it
Not why he owns one if he truly believes that they are not effective.
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09/12/2019 06:52PM |
Hand gun defense article 73 cases and the outcome.
It is grouped by caliber size. Starting out with several 22 cal. guns.
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09/05/2019 02:22PM |
the weight to need ratio is just too high
$209 + tax, ammo is 20 cents a piece
a lot cheaper than my shotgun or 30-.06 if you want to have fun and make noise shooting at targets, also requires a lot more skill
and if I ever decide I do need a weapon outdoors, it sure is a lot lighter and smaller than my other firearms
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09/26/2019 08:29PM |
ZaraSp00k: "I nearly forgot, I do carry a weapon of sorts when on the less traveled routes like the Border Route Trail, Wabakimi and WCPP, an 18" long machette I bought at Harbor Freight for $6. A wack with it would convince a wolf to back off, and even a bear might find it unpleasant.
I'm sure somebody will tell me I need better steel and handle, and be trained to sharpen it properly."
Good machete's are or can be effective tools and weapons I own several and use the fairly often to cut brush.
Poorly made ones are mostly worthless as the blades do not hold up to hard use.
The trouble with edge weapons is the close distance one has to be to use them effectively.
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09/04/2019 01:28PM |
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09/12/2019 07:33PM |
Makes about a much sense as some of the other topics brought up in this tread.
Oh but then I might be accused of trying to change the subject.
When I can't defend my position when asked a question.
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09/06/2019 01:48PM |
missmolly: "x2jmorris: "Throw some M-80 fireworks every few feet works wonders too ;)"
I need the exercise and the howitzer delivers. Ever been on a portage that was muddy and rutted? Well, I was there before ya. "
I was most likely cursing you in my mind then lol
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09/10/2019 01:33PM |
x2jmorris: "zaraspook. Shooting propane tanks is rather exciting. Tannerite is pretty fun too. The best though is pouring gas on highly flammable sprays like ether and then shooting that. Its a mini missile to somewhere. "
If you have enough safe area setting a burning highway flare next to a propane
cylinder. Then shooting said cylinder can be interesting.
Amongst many other fun things to shoot.
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09/12/2019 07:37PM |
Bushpilot: "Seems to have become a tread of statistics so here is an article I got from a "backcountry" flying friend Dr. Randy MD. Randy carries a 44 Magnum S&W when flying over bear country. If your not comfortable or good with a gun I would feel better if you had spray.
Hand gun defense article 73 cases and the outcome.
It is grouped by caliber size. Starting out with several 22 cal. guns. "
The 44mag seems to be the down right favorite handgun caliber for beat defense.
There is good reasons for that. Plus it will work well in most areas that handgun is needed.
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09/06/2019 03:59PM |
x2jmorris: "missmolly: "x2jmorris: "Throw some M-80 fireworks every few feet works wonders too ;)"
I need the exercise and the howitzer delivers. Ever been on a portage that was muddy and rutted? Well, I was there before ya. "
I was most likely cursing you in my mind then lol"
You should have heard me cursing when I was pulling that howitzer through the mud!
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09/18/2019 11:46AM |
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09/03/2019 05:26PM |
On Thursday, Aug. 15, a dog out for a run with its owner was attacked by a wolf at about 8:30 p.m. A report was made to the Minnesota Department of Natural Resources (DNR) by the dog’s owner, detailing his encounter with the wolf near the Shagawa Lake boat landing.
“As I was running, I heard a yelp from my dog behind me,” Ely resident Ted Schlosser said. “I turned around and saw that a wolf had him down on the ground. I screamed extremely loudly at it and it took off running with my dog into the woods. I immediately started chasing after him and screaming as loudly as I could. I had gotten into the woods about a hundred feet and my dog was free. The wolf was still standing there about twenty feet away. I took my dog out of the woods immediately. I was still about three-quarters of a mile from my pickup, so I proceeded to walk back to it. I had my other three dogs with me as well (all small dogs). After walking a few hundred yards, the wolf ran up to us again. He came close to the edge of the trail (about 50 feet away from us). I screamed at him again. We continued walking. A few hundred more feet, and he ran up to the edge of the trail again. I grabbed a large stick to carry and I yelled at him again. He started barking at me. He continued barking for quite a while and had a high tail posture.”
Lori Schmidt, the International Wolf Center wolf curator in Ely, manages the wolf helpline, a resource for local residents to report wolf issues and receive advice and consultations with local wildlife management agencies such as the DNR and the United States Department of Agriculture (USDA) Wildlife Services office located in Grand Rapids.
“As a wolf curator with over 33 years of wolf behavioral experience, I know that barks are a threat display, and a high tail means the animal is confident, and it may indicate aggressive arousal,” Schmidt said. “Wolves with low, tucked tails are more fearful and may be easier to deter. This animal may be food conditioned towards people. If anyone has issues with wolves on the Trezona or anywhere in the Ely area, contact the Wolf Helpline at 365-4695 ext. 134. If you have a concern of an imminent threat, calls should be made to the local conservation officer or 911
Also below is the is the DNRs recommendations how to deal with wolves. Copied and pasted from same article. Not necessarily the way I would handle the situation.
Dog Safety
People with pets should avoid area until time passes or no additional wolf observations/incidents occur
Keep dogs on leash, so wolves are less likely to approach people
Don’t allow dogs to run loose or range away, keep in close contact and control
Don’t try to intervene if dog is actively being attacked
Carry bear/pepper spray – It can be used to deter attack or spray both if wolf is actively attacking dog. The dog will need some recovery time, but the effects of bear spray are temporary and non-lethal
People
Don't run, but act aggressively, stepping toward the wolf and yelling or clapping your hands if it tries to approach.
Do not turn your back toward an aggressive wolf, but continue to stare directly at it. If you are with a companion and more than one wolf is present place yourselves back to back and slowly move away from the wolves. Retreat slowly while facing the wolf and act aggressively.
Stand your ground if a wolf attacks you and fight with any means possible (use sticks, rocks, ski poles, fishing rods or whatever you can find).
Use air horns or other noise makers.
Use bear spray
Climb a tree if necessary
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09/06/2019 07:53PM |
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09/27/2019 01:40PM |
ZaraSp00k: "riverrunner: "The trouble with edge weapons is the close distance one has to be to use them effectively. "
And that is exactly why they are superior to a firearm
The weapons of wolves, bears, mountain lions are their teeth and paws, so consequently they have to be close to cause damage. In the BWCA, the area that is the topic of discussion, they will be upon you before you realize you are in danger. Typically you can't see what's in the woods 15 feet away from you so a ski/hiking pole or a machete that you have in your hand is immediately available.
The beauty is that you already have a pole, a paddle or a machete in your hand. Unlike a firearm, which is extra baggage and will be useless about 99.99999999999999% of the time, except for that one in a million chance an animal decides you'd make a tasty meal.
This is why, rather than a duel at thirty paces, I suggest a duel at thirty inches to end the argument.
"
My plan is to nick myself with a radioactive machete and then machetes will pop out of my hands, like ultra-Wolverine. I think this is a good plan. We'll see.
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09/27/2019 02:13PM |
missmolly: "My plan is to nick myself with a radioactive machete and then machetes will pop out of my hands, like ultra-Wolverine. I think this is a good plan. We'll see. "
Radioactivity is dangerous and useless for causing such mutations. Make a chainsaw prosthetic like Ash had in the Army of Darkness.
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09/05/2019 06:49PM |
ZaraSp00k: "riverrunner: "There are approximately 300,000 carry permits issued in MN just a small number."
so 1 out of 20 people in MN have a carry permit, how many actually carry?
I own a Ruger EC9s, a very nice carry, but I haven't bothered to get a permit because I know I'd rarely actually carry it. In fact, IMO, it would cause me more problems than it would solve.
I've spent the last 40+ years lessening my load, whittling away pounds, then ounces, to carry only the things I deem necessary to travel in the back country. Adding a 17 ounce pistol and whatever 8 9mm cartridges weigh would set me back probably ten years or more.
That I have managed to survive all these years, working downtown Mpls, Milwaukee, St Louis and often in the wee hours of the night, and out in the wild without one, ... I just haven't felt the same fear as you apparently.
I feel my poles are more than adequate for wolves, a paddle a bit lacking perhaps against a bear in the extreme rare instance where I might need it.
Luckily, wolves are smart, between their common sense and mine, I am fairly confident we can exist without getting into a scuffle.
"
Well I guess one who feels like you do should just stick with the poles and paddle.
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09/04/2019 07:43PM |
Yikes! I've thought about carrying an airhorn vs. bear spray with. Lighter, and no possibility of blowback if the wind isn't in your favor.
I hear a safety whistle can also deter animals that are otherwise undeterred.
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09/08/2019 06:02PM |
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09/08/2019 06:44PM |
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09/07/2019 07:24AM |
missmolly: "x2jmorris: "Hey missmolly. You've been on this site for almost 10 years but you have never been to the bwca? If true I think it might be time :)"
I crave solitude too much, so I paddle the Shield a little north of the BWWCA. "
More solitude would be nice. I had to google the Canada shield to have any idea what you were talking about. As long as I go in October it is usually pretty quiet. Plus it is so close to me ¯\_(?)_/¯
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09/07/2019 07:38AM |
x2jmorris: "missmolly: "x2jmorris: "Hey missmolly. You've been on this site for almost 10 years but you have never been to the bwca? If true I think it might be time :)"
I crave solitude too much, so I paddle the Shield a little north of the BWWCA. "
More solitude would be nice. I had to google the Canada shield to have any idea what you were talking about. As long as I go in October it is usually pretty quiet. Plus it is so close to me ¯\_(?)_/¯"
October sounds swell, but I like big, dumb fish too and Canada has a lot of those. I've fished lakes where I assumed I was casting to fish who were seeing a lure for the first time.
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09/09/2019 08:59PM |
ZaraSp00k: "x2jmorris: "
I've shot plenty of rounds. I'm comfortable with hitting my target however I would still like a larger round if I'm looking at survival."
It is interesting to read NY police reports, they have to document every discharge of their weapon, what surprised me is reading the reports on dog shootings, officers shooting a dog 2 and three times with a .40 S&W and yet the dog lived/kept coming
the problem is that a bear or wolf attack isn't going to come with much warning, if you have enough time to deploy your weapon, if you have one, consider yourself lucky, that's why I consider my main defense poles, they are always at the ready
considering the number of people killed with a .22, I wouldn't discount it
if you watched the video of the guy rescuing wolves from traps in the order they occurred, you will see in the first one he has help from others armed at the ready, and he himself is armed, by the last one he isn't armed and a small child is nearby, IOW, once he got over his fear, he was able to more quickly free the wolf"
Having read about and studied hundreds of various animal attacks and talked to a few victims of said attacks.
In realty most animal attacks give you plenty of warning to deploy your defensive weapons.
The key is have them accessibly and to have practice deploying them.
The average trained person can draw, fire and hit their target in 1.5 seconds. I seen it done by hundreds of people thousands of times. I have trained hundreds to meet that standard.
A highly trained person can do so in under a second.
Mental conditioning and situational awareness is also a huge factor.
Here is prime example
OH F a bear
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09/05/2019 06:16AM |
MN_Lindsey: "Wolves can jump pretty high, so if you're retreating to a tree make sure you climb high enough up, at least 12 feet.
Yikes! I've thought about carrying an airhorn vs. bear spray with. Lighter, and no possibility of blowback if the wind isn't in your favor.
I hear a safety whistle can also deter animals that are otherwise
undeterred."
What you hear and what actually works are different things.
Those intermediate items are just that maybe better then nothing but not by much.
To stop a truly aggressive and dangerous predator one needs something more positive.
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09/13/2019 09:35AM |
Or people who didn't wear their PFD and downed
Blaming a object that isn't used or left behind or use improperly does not make any sense.
Unless you are trying to deflect from having personal responsibility for ones actions.
When doing research ones has to have and set criteria.
And work with in those bounds.
Your firearms a good start
A marlin Model 60 or clone
A Mossberg 500 or clone
A Savage AXIS I am thinking but there are several others out there that look close.
A Ruger LC9
A air soft or BB pistol for the last one looks like the toy.
When you start buying higher end Leupolds and up then we can start talking scopes.
But then one scope would cost more then all your firearms put together.
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09/14/2019 01:00PM |
But I have firearm very capable of killing it.
My custom Ruger MKII in 416 Taylor launches a big enough and fast enough bullet
for critters that size. A solid copper Barnes TTX 350 gr at 2500fps well do the trick has worked on cape buffalo in that weight range. Elephants are a lot bigger and they are regularly kill with fire arms in that power range.
Lots of nice bear roast and steaks for sure.
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09/07/2019 08:32AM |
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09/07/2019 09:21AM |
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09/11/2019 07:31AM |
riverrunner:
Here you don't have to due the research it has already been done for you.
Handguns 96% effective "
LOL, a study that cherry picks statistics, throws out instances where armed people were killed, yeah, that answers everything
it is interesting to read the Wikipedia wolf attack accounts in US/Canada, the early ones are indeed interesting , and also bear deaths. The last bear death in MN was in 1965, there has never been one by a wolf.
I should probably include my wolf "attack" in the Wikipedia article, judging from some of the entries.
Here is another wild animal attack I survived:
While trail running up a hill in Lebanon Hills Park, a large park in Dakota county comprised of the hills formed by the extent of the glaciers in MN (which will become important as you will see later) a turkey jumped up about 10 yards in front of me and flew directly at me, causing a WTF from me, as I turned to look at it it circled back to make another run at me. I instinctively picked up a rock nearby to throw at the bird to deflect his charge. But the rock I had picked up was too large to throw overhand so the best I could do was a underhand toss. Unfortunately it slipped out of my hand more like a bowling ball but luckily it hit the ground and bounced straight up and hit the bird who landed nearby in the weeds. Starting to run up the hill again I noticed another adult bird in the weeds with about half a dozen smaller ones, obviously the turkey had attacked to protect the young ones.
While it is true I played baseball as a kid, and was a pretty good shortstop and pitcher, I have never spent countless hours pitching rocks at birds in hopes of having the appropriate muscle memory in case I was attacked by a bird. I got it done the first time with no prior experience.
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09/09/2019 10:37PM |
Zaraspook I was forced to watch a lot of videos where guns don't work during law enforcement training. I'd say my main weapon up there is an axe. Most animals aren't going to attack a group of people even with a dog. They'd have to be desperate like that recent one up in Canada.
Riverrunner to what I mentioned with seeing many situations where guns fail is because unless you practice everyday the average person will panic or freeze causing the gun to be pointless. Yeah in a controlled environment they can probably do it in 1.5 seconds but in real life that changes.... though you could say that with many things.
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09/10/2019 05:40AM |
90 percent of the people who own firearms do not really practice with them enough to become really proficient with them.
7 percent do a lot better.
The top 3 percent are the gun guys they eat sleep and live firearms. They shoot enormous amounts of ammo and train on a regular basics.
These numbers hold true across all firearm users/ owners. Be it civilians LEO's or military
That does not mean that firearms are not a viable defensive tool even for the average person.
There are to many incidents of people who have no or very limited training and experience with firearms defending themselves successfully.
The truth is in most cases you have some type of warning and if one is willing recognize it. A speed draw is not necessary.
How a person reacts to any situation is highly variable. But almost always a person reacts how they were trained. I seen it personally and professionally people who have been in high risk situations saying I reacted how I was trained.
That is why proper skills must be developed early on.
You say the firearm failed that is a common mistake.
Humans tend to want blame something else besides themselves. They also like to project their own inability to do someone onto others.
I can't do so no one else can.
Or I do not want to so no one else should.
It is like saying the PFD failed because the person wasn't wearing it or the baseball bat failed to hit the ball or the golf club failed to make the hole in one.
Or if your highly toted axe fails because you didn't swing it properly or didn't sharpen it or some other reason caused by human error. Or you drove the blade into your foot because you were not careful. It is not the axes fault.
You can set the axe by the log and walk away for years and the axe well never cut it.
It is the axes fault for not cutting the log.
All those types of failures are human failures not the failure of the equipment used.
Now if the firearm fails to fire, jams or other wise doesn't work as designed then one can say it failed.
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09/11/2019 08:55AM |
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09/11/2019 08:35AM |
Wolves wont keep me out of the woods. But I am aware of my surroundings and the risks. And I will do what I need to so I am not a victim of am animal attack.
I could list a number bear and wolf attacks in Minnesota recently. But I just don't have the time that many of you do to spend on the internet.
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09/13/2019 10:41AM |
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09/06/2019 01:46AM |
riverrunner: "Just like the DNR no mention of firearms in their ways to stay safe from wolves.
A bullet would have quickly solve the problem.
It is fairly obvious that this wolf was not only a danger to the dogs but also to the person involved.
Any predator that does not run away from a human is too dangerous to have around."
It could be that the advice for preventing dog-wolf encounters didn’t include the use of firearms is because shooting a wolf for any purpose other than the protection of human life is illegal. Whether a law is right or wrong, I’d be surprised to see a state agency telling people it’s OK to ignore it.
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09/02/2019 10:16PM |
Tony
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09/18/2019 08:37PM |
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09/11/2019 09:35AM |
Okay.
I add this then: "No one has ruled out that these two incidents were not sasquatch kills."
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09/18/2019 08:26PM |
riverrunner: "x2jmorris: "All depends on what you are using it for"
Shooting birds even then using short barrels Under 22 inches leave something to be desired hard to get go follow through with them. I went through my short barrel phase and found that some what longer and longer barrels are more effective
The lack of sights and a bead only makes it a lot tougher to place slugs where you want them.
Now put rifle sights, a good peep sight or optics one can place slugs out of a good shotgun out to a hundred yards and more depending on the load and shotgun with out much trouble.
But then unless restricted by law why. When or if one owns perfectly capable rifles."
True. I was more meaning I am not really shooting anything over 80-100 yards with a rifle so a scope is more work than it is worth for me. I get that a good scope would be nice for long shots though or maybe if I ever start to lose my vision :) and shotguns I am not shooting anywhere near that distance nor am I shooting slugs...unless I am having some fun. But I also don't hunt.. I just shoot a lot of different guns for the hell of it. Mostly competitions with other guys.
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09/07/2019 09:36AM |
riverrunner: "I was at a neighbor's farm hunting geese this morning when five wolves trotted along the edge of the field - four black ones and a white and gray one. That is six that I have seen in the last four days.
Interesting things one sees when one is out and about at daylight or dusk."
RR, I never did tell you what I've thought a dozen times, that I wish I'd been with you that morning, for I've never seen a wolf pack. Seen singles. Heard packs sing, but to see a wolf pack...what a moment!
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09/08/2019 10:11PM |
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09/10/2019 06:59AM |
I am well aware of the preoccupation a number of people have with training with their weapons so they are prepared for something that will never happen.
I'm pretty sure I've never fired all 4 of the cartridges in my .30-06 in a year, which is all I take with me, usually just one and occasionally two. How would firing numerous rounds through it increase my accuracy and make a kill more likely?
same thing for my 12 gauge, I know for a fact I've never fired more than twice in a year, with slugs. I will admit occasionally shooting off ammo I think is getting too old, but that's usually at something fun to see what happens. Like a pumpkin or one of those small expended LP tanks.
so how many bear and wolf attacks have you experienced rr? no, I mean attacks, not shooting one that got your trigger finger excited
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09/10/2019 07:14AM |
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09/10/2019 08:11AM |
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09/10/2019 07:57AM |
If a piece of equipment fails due to human incompliance it is not the equipment's fault.
A piece of equipment does not decide how it is used. It is human error that is the cause of the failure not the object being used if the wrong piece of equipment is picked.
If I pick up a wrench to drive a nail instead of a hammer and it doesn't work it is not wrenches fault.
It make no sense to blame a object when it is use improperly.
But humans tend to want to blame something else because of their own short coming.
No what you hear is people succeeding equipment to their training.
What I hear is I should have trained harder not less
Not failing.
Success rates are much higher then the failure rates when it comes to using firearms for self-defense.
The powers to be love to publicize failure and not successes.
Thus one is lead to believe there is a higher failure rate for firearm users.
The percentage of successful handgun use against bears in in the high 90's.
Here you don't have to due the research it has already been done for you.
Handguns 96% effective
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09/11/2019 10:24AM |
ZaraSp00k: "riverrunner: Here you don't have to due the research it has already been done for you.
Handguns 96% effective "
LOL, a study that cherry picks statistics, throws out instances where armed people were killed, yeah, that answers everything."
Incidents were picked because they used handguns in self-defense against bears.
When writing about handgun uses against bears.
There is not a need to include other things
If you want to write about spray, shotguns, rifles or others things so be it.
The article is about handguns
All of them are verifiable.
You state that it throws out cases where armed people were killed.
Please come up with any verifiable uses of a handgun that is not included and I see that they get is included.
That offer has been made on many other forums any verifiable uses that have been brought forth have been included.
It seems you must know of many that are not included by your statement please send them to me.
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09/20/2019 12:32PM |
ZaraSp00k: "I nearly forgot, I do carry a weapon of sorts when on the less traveled routes like the Border Route Trail, Wabakimi and WCPP, an 18" long machette I bought at Harbor Freight for $6. A wack with it would convince a wolf to back off, and even a bear might find it unpleasant.
I'm sure somebody will tell me I need better steel and handle, and be trained to sharpen it properly."
I am a licensed machete bear fighter and I will provide you with the training. How much ya got?
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09/07/2019 12:13PM |
x2jmorris: "That is really nicely written Missmolly, thanks for that. I would have done the same thing with reading all of it. "
We respect those who preceded us.
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09/09/2019 06:33AM |
That is when I am not carrying something else. I spent a lot of the time with a 22rf pistol and didn't feel bad about it. Having killed 1000 pound steers with a single shot from a 22rf I know that with proper shot placement it will put down and kill very large animals.
My 460S@W BFR is powerful but big and heavy shoots a 300gr bullet up to 2000fps.
it is a handful for sure.
That is one thing nice about living in the USA is we have lots of choicest.
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09/19/2019 03:12AM |
Not all firearms are equal a heavy barreled long range rifle isn't the one for shorter range fast shooting. Nor is a 6x24 scope.
The key is properly set up. Why to many people over scope their long guns.
If you are having problems using a scope you really need someone that knows what they are doing to correct that and show you what is wrong.
Then one needs to practice. Until it is second nature slow for perfection speed will come.
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09/20/2019 01:04PM |
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09/20/2019 01:20PM |
Bushpilot: "I think the only way this thread will end is with a duel. 30 paces... high noon... Warrior Hill."
I prefer Thunderdome.
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09/05/2019 10:40AM |
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09/13/2019 01:58PM |
missmolly: "You should talk to this clever guy named Red Green about duct taping your 60 scopes together to make your own Hubble. You could use it to study the planets in Ursus Major and find one where cave bears still live.*
*This might not work. Check with Red Green before buying the duct tape. "
Duct tape has lots of uses I carry 5 feet or so in my repair kit.
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09/06/2019 08:46AM |
ZaraSp00k: "I'm not sure where riverruner gets the idea I am anti gun, why would I own 4 firearms if I was? I am anti idiot with gun."
"I have however had multiple run in with PEOPLE while in the outdoors, including hearing a bullet going over my head because I was " in their spot". If there is anything to be afraid of in the outdoors it's people.
I hear guys talking all the time about how the bears, wolves and coyotes kill all the deer leaving fewer for them to kill. The injustice!
If your afraid of the big bad wolf stay home! Camp at KOA . If your going to be in nature, take it as it comes."
exactly, it is ironic if there is such danger from animals that other than drownings, more hunters are killed than any other outdoor activity here in MN
I too was shot at by another hunter who wanted me out of the area and another who just didn't look beyond what he was shooting at. I kind of wish I had sent a couple slugs through his pickup."
Mainly because you make statements like the above and others
" In fact, IMO, it would cause me more problems than it would solve."
I have my doubts about being able to use it while wrastlin' a wolf.
You sound very negative about firearms in most of your posts.
So you own 4 firearms but it sure doesn't sound like you are comfortable with them.
Could be a personnel problem that you do not have enough confidence with your abilities that it shows up as a negative attitude in your posts.
Sounds like you might have personal anger issues wishing you had sent a couple of slugs through his pick up'
That would be a very good reason not to carry a firearm
I hunted all over the US and in Canada and hunted many others who haven't had any of these problems.
For anyone person to have more then one issue or stories makes me highly suspicious.
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09/03/2019 07:49AM |
GopherAdventure: "Amazing! Especially since only 5% of gray wolves are black in color. Seeing a black wolf is so rare, I’d be buying a lottery ticket if I were you! Way to go.
Tony
"
Not really rare in this area I seen several over the years and get pictures of them on the game cam's every so often.
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09/05/2019 11:29AM |
riverrunner: "Just like the DNR no mention of firearms in their ways to stay safe from wolves.
"
have to call you out on this which calls your credibility into question
the DNR does in fact say: "Use bear spray or firearms if necessary."
let's not have any fake news here
see "how can I protect myself from wolves"
it's the same list as you post except without the "or firearms if necessary" edited out
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09/07/2019 07:56PM |
There has been reported increase of wolf activity around Hwy 7. I carried bear spray, although the only time I was worried about wolves was when another camper came with his dog and slept under a simple shelter.
That dog was insanely behaved however and was the largest german shepherd I've ever seen! I know dogs can call in wolves as they don't like each other, but we had no problems.
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09/06/2019 10:28AM |
*"How much ya got?" is how I open negotiations.
P.P.P.S. - ZaraSp00k is still a good guy and a longstanding solid member of bwca.com.
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09/06/2019 11:05AM |
riverrunner: "
Some days one needs all the help on can get"
I'm here for ya, ol' buddy! ;-)
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09/06/2019 01:40PM |
x2jmorris: "Throw some M-80 fireworks every few feet works wonders too ;)"
I need the exercise and the howitzer delivers. Ever been on a portage that was muddy and rutted? Well, I was there before ya.
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09/18/2019 08:05AM |
riverrunner: "When one has rifles one needs scopes on them.
Cheap is not always wise nor is expensive always wise.
After decades of doing things in the out doors things wear out when one uses them on a regular basics.
If you have not worn things out either you are not using them much or you haven't lived long enough."
Thanks.
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09/18/2019 08:38AM |
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09/12/2019 08:03PM |
riverrunner: "Or we could just talk about what the best canoe paddle is.
Makes about a much sense as some of the other topics brought up in this tread.
Oh but then I might be accused of trying to change the subject.
When I can't defend my position when asked a question. "
I think it is because you seem very one sided and have very strong opinions on guns without at least considering the other side. Though that can be a good trait to have sometimes too :) I personally don't mind. I like to argue once in a while. I think guns work but I also think they are mostly unnecessary in the bwca. Or I should state an unnecessary portage tool. I'll bring one if I am not actually entering the bwca and staying on a lake either on the border of it or near it. You have a different view of wolves than many as well because you seem to have livestock issues or your neighbors do.
I do not own it but I would argue the Black Pearl II from Bending Branches is the best paddle. I will not spend 250 dollars on a paddle though so I can only assume. I have held it though and I like it a lot.
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09/02/2019 01:07PM |
Interesting things one sees when one is out and about at daylight or dusk.
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09/02/2019 02:05PM |
Even in Chicago dawn and dusk always produce the most coyote sightings.
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09/06/2019 04:03PM |
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09/05/2019 04:08PM |
I have however had multiple run in with PEOPLE while in the outdoors, including hearing a bullet going over my head because I was " in their spot". If there is anything to be afraid of in the outdoors it's people.
I hear guys talking all the time about how the bears, wolves and coyotes kill all the deer leaving fewer for them to kill. The injustice!
If your afraid of the big bad wolf stay home! Camp at KOA . If your going to be in nature, take it as it comes.
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09/18/2019 11:16AM |
ZaraSp00k: "x2jmorris: "Iron sights are the way to go imo"
I agree, the only reason my ought six has one is that's the way it came and I got it on sale for the cost of one that doesn't have a scope, so I figured why not, that and the .22 are mostly for target shooting
in reality, the 12 ga is my deer hunting rifle, it has the shorty barrel, lighter weight, short barrel in the dense woods is a plus
if I were in MT, WY, the Dakota's, or even W MN the scope and ought six would be the favored tool
"
Having hunted all those places and then some. Having shot a thousand or so slugs through short barreled bead sited shotguns and seen many thousands of more shot
Having killed hundreds of head of big game.
A short bead sited shotgun or open sites would not be my first choice.
I am sure those who chose to use them have vastly more experience then myself
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09/06/2019 09:26PM |
Throw a grenade on that:)
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09/16/2019 07:32AM |
riverrunner: "Well please come up with the confirmation on the women and daughter killed. Besides the one I pointed out I do not believe another case is out there.
Prove me wrong.
As far as scopes go I own 50 or 60 of them.
A lot of them cost more then the rifles they are mounted on.
Enjoy your 15 dollar scope I hope it does not fail you when you need it the most.
I have 5 or 6 cheap scopes that are junk because they broke.
I am one of the most frugal and practical persons out there always looking to get the most for my money.
But I also learned that spending less isn't always worth it and buying cheap can cost you more in the long run.
"
I still have every tent and every canoe paddle I have owned. I still have my Hiker water filter that everybody says is crap, the only reason I bought another brand of filter is that replacing the Hiker's filter cost more than the filter I bought. Some people are hard on their equipment, some are not. Some can get by without the best, some cannot. Some are afraid to go into the woods with only a water bottle and a hiking pole, some are not.
My older brother seemed to break everything he touches. Although I wore hand me down clothes growing up they weren't from him, he ripped, tore and wore out everything.
He managed to ruin my fathers 60 year old Remington Wingmaster and Winchester Model 94, which is why I had to buy the guns I bought. I didn't see a reason to buy expensive ones since "last a lifetime" isn't all that much longer.
With all the scopes you have owned I have to ask: Are you my brother?
As far as the woman and child are concerned, perhaps it is like the fake news from the Ely Echo that was posted, you can't trust the media these days no matter what their political leaning.
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09/06/2019 10:05PM |
Zwater: "I totally agree with riverrunner. Plain and simple missmolly is completely anti-gun, and is taking jabs at riverrunner.
Throw a grenade on that:)
"
TIL you can't legally own live grenades so its hard to do that
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09/16/2019 08:24AM |
After a mid-August wolf incident in Ely, the International Wolf Center will post signs and set up wildlife cameras along a trail that was the site of an attack.
Although they’re extremely rare, the center is warning people after a wolf attack on the Trezona Trail left one dog with a shoulder injury on Aug. 15, according to a news release from the center.
The center, partnering with Vermilion Community College’s Wildlife Society Chapter, will set up cameras and signs to identify patterns of wolves as well as use negative conditioning techniques to deter wolves from the area.
An Ely man was running with his four dogs along the trail when a wolf attacked one of the dogs, pinning it on the ground.
The man “screamed extremely loudly at it,” but the wolf ran into the woods with the dog. The man pursued, and followed the wolf around 100 feet into the woods where the dog was then released.
He and his dogs then headed back to his vehicle that was located further down the trail, he said in the press release.
But, after walking a few hundred yards, the wolf ran back up to them and stood around 50 feet from the edge of the trail. The wolf continued following the group, and then started barking at them with a high-tail posture.
Barking and a high tail indicates the wolf is displaying a threatening behavior and feels confident, Lori Schmidt, the center’s wolf curator, said in the release.
With wolf pups in packs that create food pressures, the fall season can be problematic. Younger wolves are sometimes left to go hungry, causing them to scavenge or roam in search of another wolf and new territory, the release read.
Dan Stark, a Minnesota DNR large carnivore specialist, gave the following tips in the release if confronted with a wolf:
Safety for dogs
Avoid areas where wolves were encountered until time passes, no wolves are observed, or incidents occur.
Keep dogs on leash, as wolves are less likely to approach people.
Keep dogs in close contact and control.
Don’t intervene if a dog is actively being attacked.
Carry bear or pepper spray to use to deter attack, as well as use during active attack.
Safety for people
Don't run.
Act aggressively, like stepping toward the wolf.
If it approaches, yell and clap hands.
Don’t turn your back toward an aggressive wolf. Instead, stare directly at it.
If there’s more than one wolf, go back-to-back with another person if they’re present. Then, retreat slowly while facing the wolves and acting aggressively.
Stand your ground if a wolf attacks. Fight back with any means possible, like using sticks, rocks, ski poles, fishing rods or whatever is around.
Use air horns, noise makers and bear spray.
If able and necessary, climb a tree.
People should report issues with wolves that happen in the Ely area to the Wolf Helpline at (218) 365-4695, ext. 134. If there is an immediate threat, people should contact 911 or the local conservation officer.
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09/05/2019 07:38PM |
Colorado Parks and Wildlife officers searched for the bears until about midnight Monday. They returned with a U.S. Department of Agriculture Wildlife Services dog team on Tuesday morning.
It was the same dog team that was used to track down a mountain lion that attacked an 8-year-old Bailey boy last week.
About 5:50 a.m., the dog team found the bear in the immediate area and she was tracked for the next hour.
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09/12/2019 10:02AM |
ZaraSp00k: "Get a map of where CWD is happening. Now get another of the distribution of wolves in the US. Note that where there is the latter, the former does not occur. Now look at the traditional range of where wolves were prevelant, it is exactly where chronic wasting disease is a problem. It is well established that chronic wasting disease becomes a problem where deer population is high, the worst situation are deer farms. Areas that don’t have wolves depend on hunters to keep populations low, and anybody in SW WI can tell you that isn’t working.
I recall as a kid in Colorado that mountainsides would be completely covered with elk or deer. This is where CWD started, and it is where wolf populations were most severely impacted by human development. With traditionally high wolf populations they were killed to extinction. Now we are paying the price for that.
"
Persuasive.
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09/14/2019 10:56AM |
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09/17/2019 11:49AM |
Cheap is not always wise nor is expensive always wise.
After decades of doing things in the out doors things wear out when one uses them on a regular basics.
If you have not worn things out either you are not using them much or you haven't lived long enough.
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09/08/2019 04:46PM |
MN_Lindsey: "I just hiked 60-Miles on the SHT from Hwy 1 to Oberg Mt.
There has been reported increase of wolf activity around Hwy 7. I carried bear spray, although the only time I was worried about wolves was when another camper came with his dog and slept under a simple shelter.
That dog was insanely behaved however and was the largest german shepherd I've ever seen! I know dogs can call in wolves as they don't like each other, but we had no problems. "
it sounds like the dog wasn't on a leash, I can't even remember the last time I encountered a dog on a leash on the SHT, which they are supposed to do
I'd feel safer camping near a dog, more likely the wolves take the dog than me
riverrummer has me convinced, bear spray isn't enough, I picked up another box of 9mm on the way home from biking on Saturday
or maybe it was because they were on sale, 19 cents each
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09/07/2019 07:09AM |
x2jmorris: "Hey missmolly. You've been on this site for almost 10 years but you have never been to the bwca? If true I think it might be time :)"
I crave solitude too much, so I paddle the Shield a little north of the BWWCA.
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09/09/2019 10:08PM |
ZaraSp00k: "MN_Lindsey: "I just hiked 60-Miles on the SHT from Hwy 1 to Oberg Mt.
There has been reported increase of wolf activity around Hwy 7. I carried bear spray, although the only time I was worried about wolves was when another camper came with his dog and slept under a simple shelter.
That dog was insanely behaved however and was the largest german shepherd I've ever seen! I know dogs can call in wolves as they don't like each other, but we had no problems. "
it sounds like the dog wasn't on a leash, I can't even remember the last time I encountered a dog on a leash on the SHT, which they are supposed to do
I'd feel safer camping near a dog, more likely the wolves take the dog than me
riverrummer has me convinced, bear spray isn't enough, I picked up another box of 9mm on the way home from biking on Saturday
or maybe it was because they were on sale, 19 cents each"
Actually the dog was on a leash throughout the night, tethered to his owner. I was thoroughly impressed.
*Further we passed at least 3-6 other groups with dogs (interestingly most German Shepards and all were on leashes!)
I'm notoriously (overworked up) of wolves in camp, and notably paranoid about it, but I survived a trip through the heart of Isabella/Finland, and a day trip through the Fault Line Ridge and through Duluth with no problems, as well as the entire Crab Lake area. These are NOTORIOUS wolf territories, and we experienced no problems.
Bring a gun if that makes you more comfortable, but it really was no issue.
Now don't get me wrong, I'm not gonna solo trip anytime soon!
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09/07/2019 09:23AM |
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09/07/2019 09:31AM |
Since the italics can't be fixed on this forum...maybe it should become the standard for bwca.com. Then it would seem normal.
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09/07/2019 09:33AM |
Decades later, my dad and I found a fishing camp. It was clear that no one was returning to it, as those not-easily transportable things of value were gone, the boats and motors. Even the refrigerator had been lugged and flown away; a dusty square marked where it had been. The stove remained, its base filigreed with rust. What remained was the sauna, bunkhouse, a little lodge, and empty fuel tanks, along with some saggy couches and chairs.
What confirmed its abandonment was the guest book had been left in a heap of paper, which mostly comprised newish fishing magazines with cover titles like, “37 Surefire ways to Catch Smallmouth Bass!” In that book, those who loved the camp wrote about fish caught, laughs had, and moose, loons, and eagles seen. But that book meant nothing to the last person out the door, less than a used refrigerator. They weren’t coming back, which is why it was our duty to spend a couple hours reading every guest book entry aloud and then centered it on the coffee table, removing the magazines to frame it with sacred space.
Nowadays, my father couldn’t reach that fishing camp. He’s too wobbly for the pitched Canadian Shield granite. So, I often go alone. When I was young and limber, I’d rise around sunrise. No more; I rise at four, when the sleeping bag is warmest and the day is coolest. I go because the gloaming, unlike me, is still young and the bass are ready to rise in the hushing fog.
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09/18/2019 07:56PM |
x2jmorris: "All depends on what you are using it for"
Shooting birds even then using short barrels Under 22 inches leave something to be desired hard to get go follow through with them. I went through my short barrel phase and found that some what longer and longer barrels are more effective
The lack of sights and a bead only makes it a lot tougher to place slugs where you want them.
Now put rifle sights, a good peep sight or optics one can place slugs out of a good shotgun out to a hundred yards and more depending on the load and shotgun with out much trouble.
But then unless restricted by law why. When or if one owns perfectly capable rifles.
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09/02/2019 08:15PM |
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09/04/2019 05:27AM |
A bullet would have quickly solve the problem.
It is fairly obvious that this wolf was not only a danger to the dogs but also to the person involved.
Any predator that does not run away from a human is too dangerous to have around.
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09/06/2019 07:28AM |
Northland:
It could be that the advice for preventing dog-wolf encounters didn’t include the use of firearms is because shooting a wolf for any purpose other than the protection of human life is illegal. Whether a law is right or wrong, I’d be surprised to see a state agency telling people it’s OK to ignore it.
"
except that's not what the MN DNR suggests, they do in fact suggest using a firearm if one is available and necessary
riverrunner edited that out
go to the MN DNR site and read for yourself:
https://www.dnr.state.mn.us/mammals/wolves/mgmt.html
go down and click on:
"How do I practice wolf safety?"
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09/07/2019 09:44AM |
Bushpilot: "Many of those boats were hauled in with planes starting back in the 30s. Same with the bwca, it was easier to fly in then build a road. Also if you build a road or trail others will follow. Also many were dragged in in the winter. I still get a kick out of seeing a boat being towed be a snowmobile. The best lakes are the one you can only get into with a plane. Summer or winter.
Since the italics can't be fixed on this forum...maybe it should become the standard for bwca.com. Then it would seem normal."
"Also, if you build a road or trail others will follow." Truer, sadder words were never written.
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09/06/2019 07:31AM |
riverrunner: "
Well I guess one who feels like you do should just stick with the poles and paddle."
That's in fact what I do, although this past weekend hiking I left the poles behind, too much weight, and with all the dogs and kids on the SHT, I figure any animal wanting a taste of human flesh will pass on me for a more tender and easier cut of meat to obtain
I have bear spray, but that is mainly for urban use while biking against dogs and people
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09/06/2019 07:33AM |
ZaraSp00k: "Northland:
It could be that the advice for preventing dog-wolf encounters didn’t include the use of firearms is because shooting a wolf for any purpose other than the protection of human life is illegal. Whether a law is right or wrong, I’d be surprised to see a state agency telling people it’s OK to ignore it.
"
except that's not what the MN DNR suggests, they do in fact suggest using a firearm if one is available and necessary
riverrunner edited that out
go to the MN DNR site and read for yourself:
https://www.dnr.state.mn.us/mammals/wolves/mgmt.html
go down and click on:
"How do I practice wolf safety?""
You are simple wrong again!! I posted it and I didn't edit anything out. Here is a link to the article. You post more false or fake info then on this site than any other person that I have noticed!! You should change your name to zerospook as you have zero credibility. That's the way I see it.
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09/06/2019 07:36AM |
merlyn: "I have a problem with the" kill them all "attitude toward predators, especially wolves. I hunt ducks, grouse and whitetails and own 2 labs and a beagle. I hunt a lot! I have had several encounters with black bears, coyotes and have had wolves close by( but only one out in the open). I have never felt I was in danger.
I have however had multiple run in with PEOPLE while in the outdoors, including hearing a bullet going over my head because I was " in their spot". If there is anything to be afraid of in the outdoors it's people.
I hear guys talking all the time about how the bears, wolves and coyotes kill all the deer leaving fewer for them to kill. The injustice!
If your afraid of the big bad wolf stay home! Camp at KOA . If your going to be in nature, take it as it comes."
exactly, it is ironic if there is such danger from animals that other than drownings, more hunters are killed than any other outdoor activity here in MN
I too was shot at by another hunter who wanted me out of the area and another who just didn't look beyond what he was shooting at. I kind of wish I had sent a couple slugs through his pickup.
I'm not sure where riverruner gets the idea I am anti gun, why would I own 4 firearms if I was? I am anti idiot with gun.
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09/06/2019 07:45AM |
Bushpilot:
You are simple wrong again!! I posted it and I didn't edit anything out. Here is a link to the article. You post more false or fake info then on this site than any other person that I have noticed!! You should change your name to zerospook as you have zero credibility. That's the way I see it."
no, you are the fake news artist, that's from the Ely Echo, not the MN DNR
If you want the truth, you have to go to the source, not some fake news outlet
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09/13/2019 11:21AM |
x2jmorris: "I wish I could skip my cpr/aed training. I have taken that class every other year for the last 18 years. "
I took a refresher every other year for the 33 years of my career.
Some things changed other didn't.
The most obvious was how the video became politically correct.
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09/13/2019 11:41AM |
rtallent: "
There's something I recommend training in: CPR and AED's"
Since I mostly travel solo, and you can’t do that stuff on yourself …
I do a lot of biking, paddling, hiking, and belong to a health club, eat healthy, IOW, get and/or stay in shape to prevent one from happening.
riverrunner: "Are you talking about this one no pistol involved ."
No, the woman in the case I was referring to I’m pretty sure was in Alaska, and she was Innuit (or somesuch) and her child was a couple years old or so.
riverrunner: "When you start buying higher end Leupolds and up then we can start talking scopes."
I was expecting you to say that, some people put great emphasis in getting the best, I put emphasis on common sense, and yes, experience, which IMO, are your best pieces of equipment. If you check out the hammock forum, you will see most people spend 400-600 bucks on their gear, some even more. My hammock setup cost me $60, and I have used it in more places than those others can only dream of. The scope I bought was $15, new.
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09/10/2019 08:28AM |
ZaraSp00k: "I still think riverrunner should start a website documenting wild bear and wolf attacks in US , of course he will need to find something else to fill his time, as there is a lot of time between attacks, weeks at a busy time, months very common, and occasionally years between attacks. Minus Alaska, he might be able to ignore the website in any given year.
I am well aware of the preoccupation a number of people have with training with their weapons so they are prepared for something that will never happen.
I'm pretty sure I've never fired all 4 of the cartridges in my .30-06 in a year, which is all I take with me, usually just one and occasionally two. How would firing numerous rounds through it increase my accuracy and make a kill more likely?
same thing for my 12 gauge, I know for a fact I've never fired more than twice in a year, with slugs. I will admit occasionally shooting off ammo I think is getting too old, but that's usually at something fun to see what happens. Like a pumpkin or one of those small expended LP tanks.
so how many bear and wolf attacks have you experienced rr? no, I mean attacks, not shooting one that got your trigger finger excited
"
Far more ammo is expand in year during practice and training then is ever shot for other purposes.
If one feels confident in one skills then one well not train because they are good enough in their own mind.
I most likely shot several thousands of round this year in practice and training. So far about 5 hunting.
For one that has made statements that you do not have the confidence or skills to use you handgun in a defensive situation. I would say you need more training and practice. How much more is a question only you can answer.
I would say enough to get over you lack of confidence and skills.
If you say the odds are you will never have to use a firearm is self-defense as a reason not to carry one. Then one should never bring something along you have never used.
I never have used a PFD to save my life. When tripping a never had to use my spare paddle. Besides a couple of band-aids I never used the rest of my first add kit so I should leave the rest home.
I never had to use my spare matches.
People are very good at projecting on to others their own personal short comings.
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09/13/2019 12:35PM |
Prove me wrong.
As far as scopes go I own 50 or 60 of them.
A lot of them cost more then the rifles they are mounted on.
Enjoy your 15 dollar scope I hope it does not fail you when you need it the most.
I have 5 or 6 cheap scopes that are junk because they broke.
I am one of the most frugal and practical persons out there always looking to get the most for my money.
But I also learned that spending less isn't always worth it and buying cheap can cost you more in the long run.
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09/20/2019 11:55AM |
I'm sure somebody will tell me I need better steel and handle, and be trained to sharpen it properly.
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09/05/2019 09:38AM |
So the question remains on why do you own a firearm at all, if you actually believe all the
anti gun rhetoric you throw out.
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09/06/2019 07:54AM |
Here's the original quote: "Wolves are not human they don't have or use common sense."
70% of Americans are overweight.
40% of Americans drink too much.
90% of Americans have used their smartphones while driving.
79% of Americans feel it's safe to exceed the speed limit by 10 mph.
75% of Americans don't exercise on a regular basis.
38,000,000 Americans are still smoking.
The median savings for families whose wage earners are between 50 and 55 years old is only $8,000. For those who are between 56 and 61, it’s $17,000, reports the Economic Policy Institute.
In short, common sense is uncommon in human beings.
P.S. - ZaraSp00k is a good guy.
P.P.S. - I'm off to walk my daily three-mile morning walk.
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09/13/2019 12:58PM |
*This might not work. Check with Red Green before buying the duct tape.
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09/09/2019 07:10AM |
x2jmorris: "
I've shot plenty of rounds. I'm comfortable with hitting my target however I would still like a larger round if I'm looking at survival."
It is interesting to read NY police reports, they have to document every discharge of their weapon, what surprised me is reading the reports on dog shootings, officers shooting a dog 2 and three times with a .40 S&W and yet the dog lived/kept coming
the problem is that a bear or wolf attack isn't going to come with much warning, if you have enough time to deploy your weapon, if you have one, consider yourself lucky, that's why I consider my main defense poles, they are always at the ready
considering the number of people killed with a .22, I wouldn't discount it
if you watched the video of the guy rescuing wolves from traps in the order they occurred, you will see in the first one he has help from others armed at the ready, and he himself is armed, by the last one he isn't armed and a small child is nearby, IOW, once he got over his fear, he was able to more quickly free the wolf
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09/13/2019 02:08PM |
riverrunner: "missmolly: "You should talk to this clever guy named Red Green about duct taping your 60 scopes together to make your own Hubble. You could use it to study the planets in Ursus Major and find one where cave bears still live.*
*This might not work. Check with Red Green before buying the duct tape. "
Duct tape has lots of uses I carry 5 feet or so in my repair kit."
You're all set then. If you see any cave bears, old Red can also help you build a rocket ship out of an Olds 88 or some such thing.
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09/07/2019 03:23PM |
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09/07/2019 01:50PM |
missmolly: "riverrunner: "I was at a neighbor's farm hunting geese this morning when five wolves trotted along the edge of the field - four black ones and a white and gray one. That is six that I have seen in the last four days.
Interesting things one sees when one is out and about at daylight or dusk."
RR, I never did tell you what I've thought a dozen times, that I wish I'd been with you that morning, for I've never seen a wolf pack. Seen singles. Heard packs sing, but to see a wolf pack...what a moment! "
I seen packs several times. the most at once was 13 pups two litters together. One batch was a different size then the other. Had two people with me when I saw them.
It is getting to be common enough that I think interesting but the wow factor went away some time ago.
I have game cam pictures of a pack of 3 blacks and 2 grays less then a mile from my house last night or the night before.
If someone would post them I would email the pictures to them.
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09/07/2019 02:32PM |
riverrunner: "missmolly: "riverrunner: "I was at a neighbor's farm hunting geese this morning when five wolves trotted along the edge of the field - four black ones and a white and gray one. That is six that I have seen in the last four days.
Interesting things one sees when one is out and about at daylight or dusk."
RR, I never did tell you what I've thought a dozen times, that I wish I'd been with you that morning, for I've never seen a wolf pack. Seen singles. Heard packs sing, but to see a wolf pack...what a moment! "
I seen packs several times. the most at once was 13 pups two litters together. One batch was a different size then the other. Had two people with me when I saw them.
It is getting to be common enough that I think interesting but the wow factor went away some time ago.
I have game cam pictures of a pack of 3 blacks and 2 grays less then a mile from my house last night or the night before.
If someone would post them I would email the pictures to them."
I'd post for you if you want. I think my email is under my name
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09/05/2019 12:08PM |
ZaraSp00k: "riverrunner: "Just like the DNR no mention of firearms in their ways to stay safe from wolves.
"
have to call you out on this which calls your credibility into question
the DNR does in fact say: "Use bear spray or firearms if necessary."
let's not have any fake news here
see "how can I protect myself from wolves"
it's the same list as you post except without the "or firearms if necessary" edited out"
Do we even have to ask whether he applauded this move?
Called out by meteorologists, Trump clings to claim Dorian could have hit Alabama
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09/07/2019 03:23PM |
riverrunner: "missmolly: "riverrunner: "I was at a neighbor's farm hunting geese this morning when five wolves trotted along the edge of the field - four black ones and a white and gray one. That is six that I have seen in the last four days.
Interesting things one sees when one is out and about at daylight or dusk."
RR, I never did tell you what I've thought a dozen times, that I wish I'd been with you that morning, for I've never seen a wolf pack. Seen singles. Heard packs sing, but to see a wolf pack...what a moment! "
I seen packs several times. the most at once was 13 pups two litters together. One batch was a different size then the other. Had two people with me when I saw them.
It is getting to be common enough that I think interesting but the wow factor went away some time ago.
I have game cam pictures of a pack of 3 blacks and 2 grays less then a mile from my house last night or the night before.
If someone would post them I would email the pictures to them."
13 pups?!? I'd zoom past a mere "Wow!" and go full Borat on that: Whoa, whoa, wee-wah!!!!"
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09/05/2019 01:13PM |