Boundary Waters Quetico Forum :: Listening Point - General Discussion :: Covid conditions: more crowded, or less?
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CityFisher74 |
dex8425: "It looks like it's going to be a zoo. Even the hiking permits are almost full for Thursday, Friday and Saturday. With the canoe permits full, I hope we can find a campsite on snowbank or the kek this weekend. We have a 7 month old with us. Perhaps some will be turned off by the forecast? Only time will tell. |
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x2jmorris |
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Jeriatric |
If a person is 60 or less, why not go camping. Otherwise, open up most of the rest of the country. Edit: Went back and checked again. About 100 more people were lost that were over 85 than those still living in the first 80 years of their lives. Here's another good one: More than twice as many over 100 were lost than those under 45. (70 vs 33). |
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nctry |
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paddlinjoe |
Jeriatric: "Haven't paid much attention to Minnesota but Pennsylvania has about 69% of its covid -19 deaths in nursing homes. They have lost nearly as many people over 85 as they did 80 or less (within about 100). I think it is about 66% over a larger part of the country. We have a similar trend in MN. In MN people over 70 make up less than 20% of the confirmed cases. But people over 70 make up over 80% of the deaths. Also, over 80% of those that have died have been from nursing homes and long term care facilities. The Star Tribune is the source of this data. Also per the Star Tribune, we are still moving Covid infected patients to nursing homes. I don’t know why we are doing that to our most vulnerable population. |
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ChiTrader |
Chris |
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ChiTrader |
Chris" ____________________________________________________________________________________ Meant to reply to the Strib info link re: COVID-19 C |
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Luckee |
Will the pandemic mean fewer people out -- or maybe more? There are statistics showing much higher number of people out cycling, and anecdotally I seem to see way more folks hiking than normally. Will this principle apply to padding? Do you think the boundary waters will be more crowded instead of less so this year? Curious to hear opinions. Hope to not hear too much abuse about my solitary, slightly misanthropic ways :) |
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justpaddlin |
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nofish |
This all remains a very fluid situation so who knows what things will look like in a couple weeks or a couple months. Its easy to see the stay at home order expire and get complacent about the risk that still remains. I think people need to keep in mind that the risk of covid is far from over. If anything the risk is higher now than its ever been. With more and more people getting out more and more people will get sick. The stay at home orders goal was not to defeat covid or reduce the total number of people that will get it. The goal was to spread out the length of time it took to reach that total number and to buy time for the hospitals to increase their capacity. The stay at home order was allowed to expire simply because there are now enough hospital beds for those of us that are going to get sick in the coming weeks or months. If hospital beds end up being in short supply again we could easily see another stay at home order put in place. If that happens then plans are obviously going to change again. |
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NotLight |
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Mo63021 |
MidwestFirecraft: "Was in from the 18th to the 24th. Only saw 2 canoes in 7 days, and did not see the first canoe till the 5th day, and the 2nd canoe a couple hours before leaving the BWCA. It was like we had the place to ourselves!" Thanks for the updates as we are going in EP 14 on June 13. What area were you in MidWestFirecraft?? |
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OMGitsKa |
x2jmorris: "I think early on it will be less than normal. However I think once July and August hit it is going to be crazy busy again." Yeah I would agree on this. I think many out of state travelers might not be making the trek this year, especially if those that would fly in to the twin cities. There are also probably people with permits who have not cancelled yet but eventually will. |
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schweady |
scramble4a5: "Well with the limited number of permits it can only get so crowded. It will be what it will be." It's at 93% capacity right now for the upcoming weekend. 36 permits still open for Fri-Sat out of 532 (after eliminating the 'From Canada' permits) |
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HighnDry |
nctry: "The gunflint trail and 61 were full of vehicles with canoes on them. The outfitters were hopping pretty good. At one point there were permits galore... it sounds like people are snatching them up pretty fast." Does this mean you are getting closer to putting a boat in the water again, Ben? :) |
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KarlBAndersen1 |
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nctry |
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dex8425 |
I've never seen so many permits show "0" on recreation.gov. Fingers crossed that some people won't go. |
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Wallidave |
scramble4a5: "Wallidave: "Here in Illinois they opened a lot of recreational areas but still have some closed. One of the places that is opened is a favorite lake of mine with quality fish in it. In the past it was normal to see it busy on the weekends but during the week it saw little pressure. They opened it unexpectant on May 1st and within a few days it turned into a zoo 7 days a week. A few other nearby popular lakes are still closed and now all the area rivers are blowout with floods. With so many people out of work even the weekdays are like weekends on this lake. To avoid frustration with all the craziness I've heard going on at the lake I've avoided it." yep |
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TuscaroraBorealis |
Talking with Andy at Tuscarora Outfitters; he warned me that permit levels were maxing out as I left and then said things hadn't slowed when I came out the other day. 'Crazy busy' was the term he used. From what I seen during my trip, i couldn't dispute that description. That said, once i got off of the main travel routes (Gijikiki, Sema, Clam, Rabbit etc.) I had the lake to myself. |
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yogi59weedr |
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missmolly |
deerfoot: "missmolly: "I assume the Quetico and Wabakimi folks will be headed into the BWWCA. Maybe even Crown Landers like me." Will it be weird for you to share lakes with others? |
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MidwestFirecraft |
Mo63021: "Thanks for the updates as we are going in EP 14 on June 13. Stuart lake area. |
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sns |
Mo63021: "Thanks for the updates as we are going in EP 14 on June 13. " FYI, my previous comments were regarding EP 14 - we went in on the 19th, planned to come out Monday the 25th but instead exited Sunday the 24th (home in the Twin Cities at 2am). Saw very few others going in but coming out on the holiday weekend was poor planning on our part. |
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nctry |
HighnDry: "nctry: "The gunflint trail and 61 were full of vehicles with canoes on them. The outfitters were hopping pretty good. At one point there were permits galore... it sounds like people are snatching them up pretty fast." I did...my good friend housty9 threatened me (I made that up) so I went. Nice thing is I can paddle, but I pay for it later in crazy pain. I love to paddle and even at home I get out there on the lake some. But I have to take like an overdose of my prescription pain meds to get through the night and next day.Mark and Lisa are so kind! I’m sure I wore their patience thin. Like me, Mark likes to travel. Being in one site is something that has always been hard. |
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justpaddlin |
Germany South Korea Minnesota I hope the links work. I'd encourage people to just look at the graphical summaries and interpret the facts for themselves. |
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missmolly |
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scotttimm |
MikeinMpls: "We put in at Kawishiwi Lake May 18, and came out the 24th. Four vehicles in lot when we left, over 40 upon our return (parked in the lot, the road, the ditch, off road, clearings). This is my concern for our Kawishiwi trip, thinking of moving our entry date from Wednesday to Tuesday or Monday now - both Thursday and Friday permits are gone (9 per day) so I imagine a line of trippers will be headed north both those days. We'd like to camp on Kawishiwi Lake the first night, as we have a 7 hour drive to get there and don't want to overnight - then get an early start to Polly or Koma on our second day. Sounds like the exit strategy is key. We planned to go to Polly, Koma, or Malberg night one, then try to get closer to Alice figuring *maybe* people will be leaving the area Saturday and we can snag a nice spot on Alice...spend four days or so there basecamping...but it sounds like we might want to grab the first nice site on Malberg or Koma before we attempt to exit heading back south. |
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billconner |
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Mo63021 |
sns: "Mo63021: "Thanks for the updates as we are going in EP 14 on June 13. " Thanks for the update. We have gone to the Q the last 12 trips and since our last time in BWCAW was in 1972 this will be a new type of trip for the boys and I. Was hoping, (back when this was a plan B) to get in early and basecamp on Lynx starting from the get go. Now getting a little worried but hey, as I saw somewhere else, a semi crowded lake is better than a deserted office!! |
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Blatz |
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Frenchy |
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gymcoachdon |
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Canoearoo |
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Wallidave |
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riverrunner |
As the last month. |
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justpaddlin |
nooneuno: " They are not my graphs. New York is doing way more testing per capita than Minnesota yet their trend shows major improvement while Minnesota looks out of control. You can also look at death statistics by state or country (normalized for population) to get some feel for what's goIng on; there's a lot of relevant information available and I'm just trying to encourage people to dig into it. |
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Luckee |
https://www.startribune.com/coronavirus-covid-19-minnesota-tracker-map-county-data/568712601/ There's a nice graph charting the negative and positive tests halfway down the page, and you can mentally superimpose the cumulative cases line graph over it (can't imagine why they didn't just do that). |
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mutz |
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CoffeeInTheWoods |
Luckee: "Not to be too negative about numbers of people getting out and enjoying themselves, but to be honest? I like it better when there are a fewer parties on the water. |
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egknuti |
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sns |
Mo63021: "sns: "Mo63021: "Thanks for the updates as we are going in EP 14 on June 13. " I hear you...we'd been planning on WCCP and did the BWCA instead. |
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scotttimm |
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Banksiana |
mutz: "People are tired of being told to stay home, as things open up I think people are going to go. I have talked to several people who say Georgia opened up three weeks ago and the numbers haven’t skyrocketed so staying home makes no difference. Practicing common sense policies will make a difference." Georgia has misrepresented the data to make things look better than they are (check articles in LA Times and Atlanta Journal Constitution). They claim "mistakes and software flaws" but the flaws and mistakes have all managed to be in the direction of an undercount. I would suggest not using the data from Georgia to base a decision. |
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sns |
We took out right at dark, and there was even a car arriving at the EP with an outfitter-rigged canoe on the top to put in at 9:15pm! Maybe they were going to sleep in the parking lot... |
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yellowcanoe |
Jeriatric: "Haven't paid much attention to Minnesota but Pennsylvania has about 69% of its covid -19 deaths in nursing homes. They have lost nearly as many people over 85 as they did 80 or less (within about 100). I think it is about 66% over a larger part of the country. So you are telling me not to camp? I think a better representation before stating that is to compare deaths among independent living seniors and those in assisted living or congregate situations. The latter are not camping.. The former may be. I am one of them.. Got several canoe trips coming up! Since this all started we have been getting out every day hiking or shopping at the grocery store or volunteering at the food bank ( gives us a sense of purpose that watching TV doesn't) or since ice out. Paddling. Every day. Some retail and inside dining has been shut down since March but a lot has not like WalMart and the grocery stores and the garden centers. But in a normal year I go to WM once so that is not a big change not to go. I told my kids never to put me in a nursing home. If that time comes I will do assisted suicide. It is legal here. |
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justpaddlin |
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MidwestFirecraft |
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Frenchy19 |
I have a June 16 permit for East Bearskin like I did last year, and while the Caribou area is always a popular destination for a variety of reasons, I am wondering about increased crowds this year. I get that only so many permit are available, but I have believed for years that there are too many available in the BW. Wish they ran the permits like Quetico; a lot fewer and a daily per person fee. This would cut down on the crowds. Then again, it is easy for me to wish this; I am not a business owner who relies on BW traffic for my survival, so what the heck do I know? |
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Mad_Angler |
When we came out on Tuesday, the parking lot at Seagull Outfitters was empty. I know it normally slows after Memorial Day but I think it was a lot more empty than usual. My guess is that there was an initial rush because Minnesota just opened, the fishing opening was delayed, and it was Memorial Day. I suspect that it will be much slower for a while... |
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yogi59weedr |
And they had a campfire.... |
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deerfoot |
missmolly: "I assume the Quetico and Wabakimi folks will be headed into the BWWCA. Maybe even Crown Landers like me." This will be me unless Ontario and Manitoba open up. |
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mutz |
Banksiana: "mutz: "People are tired of being told to stay home, as things open up I think people are going to go. I have talked to several people who say Georgia opened up three weeks ago and the numbers haven’t skyrocketed so staying home makes no difference. Practicing common sense policies will make a difference." It will depend on who you read or listen to on results, according to CNN,a study by Johns Hopkins university Shows the numbers have been going down and Georgia did not have any spike when they opened up. People and businesses have just used common sense in how they have moved forward. |
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MikeinMpls |
The Kawishiwi Lake EP is usually busy, and we knew that. We base camped on Lake Polly. We had some solitude and quiet on the 18th, then the flood of trippers came in. From then on, Lake Polly was a campground...just overrun by trippers both on the lake and pushing north (as Lake Polly campsites were all full.) There was seldom a time when one did not hear voices for more than a few minutes. I wish people treated the BWCA like a library (or what libraries used to be like, whispering.) That just doesn't happen anymore. But I completely admit that we traveled to a popular lake, during a popular time, through a popular entry point. A little more work would have equaled more quiet for us. As we traveled out from Polly to Kawishiwi, every campsite was taken, even the ones in the burn. Mike |
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dex8425 |
We didn't see many people actually hiking on the trail, but the first two campsites we wanted on night one were taken and same with the second night. We had to go down the Becoosin lake loop to get a site. Never had to do that before. |
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nooneuno |
justpaddlin: " Georgia |
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LindenTree |
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scramble4a5 |
Wallidave: "Here in Illinois they opened a lot of recreational areas but still have some closed. One of the places that is opened is a favorite lake of mine with quality fish in it. In the past it was normal to see it busy on the weekends but during the week it saw little pressure. They opened it unexpectant on May 1st and within a few days it turned into a zoo 7 days a week. A few other nearby popular lakes are still closed and now all the area rivers are blowout with floods. With so many people out of work even the weekdays are like weekends on this lake. To avoid frustration with all the craziness I've heard going on at the lake I've avoided it." Your right down the road from me so you must be talking about Heideke Lake. |
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scramble4a5 |
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andym |
I think most of the extra hiking and biking we are seeing is close to home because people are stir crazy and gyms are closed. How that translates into trips slightly further afield as restrictions are lifted is a really good question. And I think that a lot of people are holding off on plans until they see how the restrictions are lifted. |
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TomT |
Frenchy19: "...... but I have believed for years that there are too many available in the BW. Wish they ran the permits like Quetico; a lot fewer and a daily per person fee. This would cut down on the crowds. Then again, it is easy for me to wish this; I am not a business owner who relies on BW traffic for my survival, so what the heck do I know?" IMO they do need to cut down available permits per day. Also use your idea of a daily fee like Quetico. I just resrved a Sept. permit for the BW and the total cost for an 11 night trip is $38. That's pretty crazy if you ask me. IMO the campsites are going to take a helluva beating this year and competition for them around the entries will be fierce. I'm sure we will hear stories later in the summer. My plan is to go as long as I can on day one and 2 and hopefully get to experience some peace and quiet. I gave up the BW after 2012 in favor of Quetico because of the crowding so I've come to terms that it will not be the same experience this year. I just hope people have respect for how easily sound travels on the lakes. Leave the boom boxes home please. :) |