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Author	Message Text
schweady	06/03/2020 10:40AM   Can hardly wait to use "dendrochronology" and "plasticization" in the same sentence during the next campfire. I'll suggest Heinselman's book 'The Boundary Waters Wilderness Ecosystem.' I've checked it out from our local library on numerous occasions to do research on fire history in the areas we were going to visit.
LindenTree	06/03/2020 07:49AM   airmorse: "Interesting...i thought the obviously very old stumps I've encountered were the remnants from the logging days. " I think most are from old logging days, but had been subjected to regular low intensity fires for a few hundred years and hardened by plasticitazion. Most of the large fires in Minnesota and Wisconsin's history were after the lumbering happened. They logged large areas and left the tree tops and branches on the ground. These were very susceptible to fires and became the Cloquet, Hinkley and Peshtigo fires as well as many other less known fires.
LindenTree	06/03/2020 08:23AM   By examining annual growth rings in increment cores taken from tree trunks, we found that many pines at this site were more than 250 years old. Distinct injuries recorded within their rings denoted the passage of multiple low-severity surface fires that damaged but did not kill many of these trees. In all, 16 fires burned here between 1660 and 1909, after which fires abruptly ceased. Article from the above quote
LindenTree	06/02/2020 05:41PM   How many of you have seen old Pine Stumps in the BW and Q that are still around after a 100+ years? I have seen many and always wondered why they were still around. I always figured it was related to having been burned over by fire. A retired firefighting buddy of mine does Fire Dendrochronology for a company and explained to me why pine stumps can stand for hundreds of years. Look for these next time you are out hiking in the north woods. Here is some of his correspondence with me. "We do the Fire dendrochronology, dating of the fire scars. Then once the data is entered into the database I get some awesome chunks of wood to do woodworking with. The majority have origin dates in the 1600's and we get an occasional one in the 1500's. The godfather of fire history research, Bud Heiselman started in your backyard in the Boundary Waters in the 1960's Each successive fire in a Red Pine causes it to secrete more pitch throughout the entire bole of the tree. Its called plasticization. It causes them to become very hard, dense and resistant to rot. When we cut these old trees they ooze much more pitch than a "normal" live Red Pine."
BoxofRain	06/03/2020 06:53AM   I hiked the PCT through the High Sierra's and noticed some old stumps and wondered how they had survived so long, now I know. Plus a new term that I didn't know existed, thanks
airmorse	06/03/2020 01:13PM   LindenTree: "By examining annual growth rings in increment cores taken from tree trunks, we found that many pines at this site were more than 250 years old. Distinct injuries recorded within their rings denoted the passage of multiple low-severity surface fires that damaged but did not kill many of these trees. In all, 16 fires burned here between 1660 and 1909, after which fires abruptly ceased. Article from the above quote " Thanks for that link. I had know from previous readings that the Ojibwa had used fire to clear the forest. What I did not know was how frequently they did this. It's interesting to note that as the Ojibwa way of life was changed so was the forest.
Pinetree	06/04/2020 05:26PM   schweady: "Can hardly wait to use "dendrochronology" and "plasticization" in the same sentence during the next campfire. I'll suggest Heinselman's book 'The Boundary Waters Wilderness Ecosystem.' I've checked it out from our local library on numerous occasions to do research on fire history in the areas we were going to visit. " 100% agree, was just going to mention it.
airmorse	06/02/2020 08:10PM   Interesting...i thought the obviously very old stumps I've encountered were the remnants from the logging days.
jhb8426	06/02/2020 08:09PM   Sounds like old pine in general. I have some old pieces of 2x4 from remodeling my house. They are actually larger dimensionwise than current lumber. They are significantly harder than fresh lumber. Pounding a nail into them is noticeably harder. Possibly in this case it's just that the resin hardens over time.
rtallent	06/03/2020 02:21PM   Sure, but I think a lot of the change was suppression of natural fires by the early forest service, etc., after the early 1900's....
Pinetree	06/04/2020 05:27PM   Nice subject Linden Tree
LindenTree	06/03/2020 11:16AM   schweady: "Can hardly wait to use "dendrochronology" and "plasticization" in the same sentence during the next campfire. " Use a conservation starting like this the next time you and your friends are around the campfire. "According to the fire dendrochronoligists that I have studied with, woody plasticization only takes place in temperatures over 1,200 degrees F".
nctry	06/05/2020 08:35AM   When I was a kid I remember being very intrigued by old stumps and some hollow and tall enough to climb inside. Those are all gone now and especially with current logging practices opportunities to see anything like it again will be slim. Living on the edge of the iron range most towns were started as mining towns. Here it was logging. My great grandfather made his living supplying logging camps in the area. So it was kinda neat to live here and get to know some of the backcountry and where some of these camps were.