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Boundary Waters Quetico Forum :: Listening Point - General Discussion :: SNF Fires
 
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Spartan2
07/09/2020 08:14AM
 
MidwestFirecraft: "minnmike: " I think they need to make people take some kind of a course to prove they are competent and responsible enough to deserve their first permit into the BW. Then the video no one seems to be paying attention to could be a refresher."



In my opinion the video is worthless. I have found that for the most part if someone was not introduced to camping from someone knowledgeable in woodcraft and LNT principles, they will default to what is convenient and known. I am still learning so many things, but it is a passion of mine to introduce new people to canoe camping and show them proper techniques so they will know and be able to pass them on to their friends and family. I think this is really the only hope. When you see someone washing their hair in the lake, I believe most people really just don't know that they are doing anything wrong. Only by someone they personally know sharing with them the proper way to do things will they ever likely change. "



I tend to disagree. We evidently didn't look like we know much, (even though we had been canoe-tripping for more than 40 years) because every single time, no matter if it was an outfitter or the Forest Service, we were told we had to watch the video. More than a few times we were quizzed about LNT after we had watched. But I was always thankful for it. The rules have gotten more definite as the years have gone by, and as the video went through changes.


I used to wash my hair in the lake. When we first were canoeing in the 1970's we would take a bar of Ivory Soap into the lake with us and clean up. For many years I would wash out clothing with the same bar of soap at water's edge. The video told me to quit doing those things, and I did. In our long time of canoe-tripping we did break some rules, but less and less as we watched the videos and realized our mistakes. And we didn't have an experienced other person with us to share the proper way to do things. We learned on our own.


I think the video is good, and I think it should be shown to every single person who is getting a permit. It is a start. While it is true that some people have no experience, if even a few of them learn something and beging to care more, it is worth the effort.
 
jhb8426
07/07/2020 09:35PM
 
straighthairedcurly: ...Maybe this would make a great Eagle Scout project for some Boy Scouts to design."


While it may be worthwhile, it doesn't sound like it would fit the requirements. An Eagle project requires the scout to come up with a task that requires planning and the help of others to complete. It's a management project so to speak. The video sounds like a one man job. Of course I'm not very creative so one might figure out how to engage others in the project.
 
adam
07/06/2020 07:49AM
 
A few fires over the weekend in the Superior National Forest.

One is in the Sundial PMA - 8 acres

Three others are smaller and reported together all less then 1 acre.

Inciweb link for Minnesota

 
straighthairedcurly
07/07/2020 10:28PM
 
jhb8426: "straighthairedcurly: ...Maybe this would make a great Eagle Scout project for some Boy Scouts to design."



While it may be worthwhile, it doesn't sound like it would fit the requirements. An Eagle project requires the scout to come up with a task that requires planning and the help of others to complete. It's a management project so to speak. The video sounds like a one man job. Of course I'm not very creative so one might figure out how to engage others in the project."



A well done project like this would require a lot of planning and pulling together multiple community resources. I think to do it well would be extremely difficult as a one person job.
 
Gaidin53
07/07/2020 10:56PM
 
Would be challenging for a Scout to do well and challenging, Would be worthwhile but see it being a challenge from how Eagle Scout projects usually seem to flow.


On a side note I was watching a video on dishwashing Leave no trace that required 4 seas to summit buckets today. I was like really! It was for front country but I was still a little stunned. When our BSA troop cleans at campouts with all the gear we use 3 tubs. One of our leaders said when his kid came home from camp the first time and helped wash dishes He got confused because the house only had 2 sinks!

Probably shouldn’t hijack the post though since it’s about the fire dangers. I. Heading up in 3 1/2 weeks so I’ll, be watching the fire concerns, and bears seem to be an issue this year.
 
jhb8426
07/07/2020 11:55PM
 
Gaidin53: "Would be challenging for a Scout to do well and challenging, Would be worthwhile but see it being a challenge from how Eagle Scout projects usually seem to flow.
"



I was a scout leader for over 20 years and sat on many committees to judge and approve Eagle projects to proceed and on Eagle review boards. I agree that it would be a challenge to make this a valid project as well as for the Eagle board to review and judge the competency. Again, not saying it's not worthwhile but questioning the appropriateness for an Eagle project.
 
minnmike
07/06/2020 08:58AM
 
I am surprised there aren't more fire up there. I was shocked on my last trip in June to come across two site vacant sites that had camp fires smoldering and it appeared to people didn't make any attempt to extinguish them at all before paddling off. If you were in the group of 5 people that vacated the Mondale site on Gaskin on June 25th shame on you. I was hoping to run into you. I ran into a group paddling to Gaskin and they told me a group of 5 they met on past portage told them they had stayed there and just left so site was open. I used 8 big coffee cups of water to put that one out.


I think they need to make people take some kind of a course to prove they are competent and responsible enough to deserve their first permit into the BW. Then the video no one seems to be paying attention to could be a refresher.



 
24kGold
07/06/2020 09:28AM
 
minnmike: " I am surprised there aren't more fire up there. I was shocked on my last trip in June to come across two site vacant sites that had camp fires smoldering and it appeared to people didn't make any attempt to extinguish them at all before paddling off. If you were in the group of 5 people that vacated the Mondale site on Gaskin on June 25th shame on you. I was hoping to run into you. I ran into a group paddling to Gaskin and they told me a group of 5 they met on past portage told them they had stayed there and just left so site was open. I used 8 big coffee cups of water to put that one out.



I think they need to make people take some kind of a course to prove they are competent and responsible enough to deserve their first permit into the BW. Then the video no one seems to be paying attention to could be a refresher.



"

Good luck with that. Besides, I think people know, they are just lazy and careless. Their attitude is to let someone else take care of it. It's a good thing I'm not a king. I would probably eliminate a lot of DNA that carried the "stupid" gene.


I probably shouldn't have said that.


Terry
 
OtherBob
07/06/2020 09:20AM
 
It would not be too hard to create an interactive video test of BW competence, My 8 year old grandson is designing interactive games with fantastical figures that fly all over. A BW video game would see if the viewer fills the virtual pot with water and floods the firepit when leaving, or bags all the trash and packs it out, for instance. A failing score on any scenario would send the viewer into an educational video on that part to bring them up to speed. Winners get points, like in the video games, which seems to be important to 8 year olds anyway.


On a different tack,a part of an educational video could re-enact the start of the Ham Lake fire, its devastation, and the tragic finale of the camper's suicide. All of this could be done in 30 seconds or less. Likewise, the story of the Knife Lake drowning for lack of PFD. Real life is a more effective teacher than a lecture on rules.
 
MidwestFirecraft
07/06/2020 09:30AM
 
minnmike: " I think they need to make people take some kind of a course to prove they are competent and responsible enough to deserve their first permit into the BW. Then the video no one seems to be paying attention to could be a refresher."


In my opinion the video is worthless. I have found that for the most part if someone was not introduced to camping from someone knowledgeable in woodcraft and LNT principles, they will default to what is convenient and known. I am still learning so many things, but it is a passion of mine to introduce new people to canoe camping and show them proper techniques so they will know and be able to pass them on to their friends and family. I think this is really the only hope. When you see someone washing their hair in the lake, I believe most people really just don't know that they are doing anything wrong. Only by someone they personally know sharing with them the proper way to do things will they ever likely change.
 
Jaywalker
07/07/2020 08:48AM
 
mjmkjun: "a child can be taught to douse a fire. in one lesson.



point made. "

True. Sadly, it seems, some adults can not.
 
OneMatch
07/06/2020 10:20AM
 
thanks for posting this, Adam. I noticed that a decent storm front passed thru Ely and on the way to Sawbill area. Hoping that will help a bit.
 
airmorse
07/06/2020 10:28AM
 
24kGold: "minnmike: " I am surprised there aren't more fire up there. I was shocked on my last trip in June to come across two site vacant sites that had camp fires smoldering and it appeared to people didn't make any attempt to extinguish them at all before paddling off. If you were in the group of 5 people that vacated the Mondale site on Gaskin on June 25th shame on you. I was hoping to run into you. I ran into a group paddling to Gaskin and they told me a group of 5 they met on past portage told them they had stayed there and just left so site was open. I used 8 big coffee cups of water to put that one out.




I think they need to make people take some kind of a course to prove they are competent and responsible enough to deserve their first permit into the BW. Then the video no one seems to be paying attention to could be a refresher.




"

Good luck with that. Besides, I think people know, they are just lazy and careless. Their attitude is to let someone else take care of it. It's a good thing I'm not a king. I would probably eliminate a lot of DNA that carried the "stupid" gene.



I probably shouldn't have said that.



Terry"



You would get my vote.
 
Jaywalker
07/09/2020 08:08AM
 
The Sundial Fire appears to have been removed from Inciweb, so it must be out. The other smaller fires were removed a couple days ago.
 
cyclones30
07/07/2020 10:02PM
 
I saw on Instagram today a float plane dropped off firefighters on Moosecamp lake today. They heading for sundial or somewhere else?
 
straighthairedcurly
07/07/2020 04:33AM
 
MidwestFirecraft: "minnmike: " I think they need to make people take some kind of a course to prove they are competent and responsible enough to deserve their first permit into the BW. Then the video no one seems to be paying attention to could be a refresher."



In my opinion the video is worthless. I have found that for the most part if someone was not introduced to camping from someone knowledgeable in woodcraft and LNT principles, they will default to what is convenient and known. I am still learning so many things, but it is a passion of mine to introduce new people to canoe camping and show them proper techniques so they will know and be able to pass them on to their friends and family. I think this is really the only hope. When you see someone washing their hair in the lake, I believe most people really just don't know that they are doing anything wrong. Only by someone they personally know sharing with them the proper way to do things will they ever likely change. "



This is why camps like the YMCA camps are so important. You are correct that the personal, active learning is best. Unfortunately, it isn't available to everyone. I think the LNT videos are too passive and dull for an inexperienced person to absorb and internalize. The videos do need more interactivity for the viewer to demo what they have learned. Maybe this would make a great Eagle Scout project for some Boy Scouts to design.
 
mjmkjun
07/07/2020 08:24AM
 
a child can be taught to douse a fire. in one lesson.


point made.