Boundary Waters Quetico Forum :: Listening Point - General Discussion :: Tandem vs 2 solo canoes
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Michwall2 |
ManAndDog: "Our group of 5 equally capable adults usually does one 3-person and one 2-person canoe. This year we are considering doing five 1-person canoes instead. Several questions: Are you all relatively equally skilled paddlers? With that many solos, if one or two people cannot keep up or do not have the necessary skill/strength/stamina for paddling on a windy-ish day, will you all be stuck in camp? Others may disagree, but, our experience has been that solos cannot maintain the same cruising speed that a tandem/triple can. Do your plans include shorter distances or longer paddling days? Will the existence of one tandem and 3 solos create "solo envy"? What are your group dynamics like that way? Will you need to rotate through the tandem? Just as a matter of safety, every canoe should have a set of maps. What is the feeling of the group about the member who gets "solo wanderlust" and leaves the group to explore? Are you willing to wait at the next portage for everyone to regroup or are you going to forge ahead and they will have to find you later? Besides having 2 extra canoes to portage, it will take longer to clear the portage at both ends. Rarely is there room for 4 canoes to unload/load simultaneously. You will need to establish a routine to avoid causing backups at portages closer to entries. Remember, the 4 canoe/9 person rule applies to everyone at a portage end. Your party with 4 canoes could create gridlock. |
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dschult2 |
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3Ball |
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KarlBAndersen1 |
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Pinetree |
Also what is your paddling skill levels and are you going on big water? Lot of things to check out. |
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Pinetree |
MidwestFirecraft: "ManAndDog: "Is this a dumb idea? Is the workload close to the same per person on a solo canoe vs 2 people on a tandem canoe? agree |
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sns |
You could even consider Wenonah's Solo-Plus, giving extra room for Fido. |
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straighthairedcurly |
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A1t2o |
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Banksiana |
A Prism or a Northwind solo should be able to handle you and your dog but you will be loaded. |
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outsidethebox |
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gymcoachdon |
My very first wilderness trip was solo entering Stuart River. Looking back now 6 years later, I had no idea what I was doing. I had paddled canoes maybe 3 times as a child, and then took a canoeing/kayaking class in college. That was probably the biggest help for me. I did fine, and had no problems handling the solo canoe. (I did borrow a Prism from a friend, and paddled it 2 days on a local lake before the trip.) I don't think there is such a big learning curve to paddling a solo canoe. (and I took a kayak paddle, but much preferred the single.) My son and I took a trip together in 2 solos, and it had advantages and disadvantages. Advantages: We could travel at our own pace (somewhat) We could fish our own areas, at our pace, and choose our presentation style If one of us wanted lunch or a nap, the other was in a canoe that was easy to control solo. Disadvantages: More trips across the portage (we probably could have single portaged, but at least could have carried the tandem canoe by itself on the portages) Yokes need to be installed and removed at each portage My son was not a strong paddler, and we had 2 days of headwinds to get out. His back was giving him fits by the end of the trip, and he had a couple tough days. He could have been lazy in the bow and let me do the work in a tandem. We went with 2 solos because I own one, and was able to borrow another. We would have had to rent a tandem, so saved about $300. |
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Argo |
gymcoachdon: Taking this a bit off topic but yours is an excellent point that I found out on a long-haul Quetico trip with my fourteen-year-old son last summer. The kid is over 6' tall and was 130 lbs soaking wet. No man muscles yet. I had this notion that his limitless energy doing all sorts of sporting activities at home would translate into him being a strong paddler. Instead, like your son, he fought back issues in the canoe. Fortunately these aren't the sort of chronic back issues us older folks get - just tired muscles that need a break from paddling. The biggest downside to it was when he was laying back on a pack for a rest at the bow he missed seeing an enormous sturgeon leap out of the water in front of us in the channel south of Scripture Island on Sturgeon Lake. That was a once in a lifetime sighting. |
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moray |
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OneMatch |
3Ball: "My experience is that two strong paddlers in a tandem will outpace the solos. It can result in the solo paddlers getting tired. The tandem paddlers may have to wait occasionally. Its also better to fish with a buddy in a tandem. I like going solo, but I do it when I'm alone on the trip." Yes. I've had this happen paddling solo with another tandem and even when I started out early, I was always bringing up the rear and quite tired. Also have been in the tandem while 2 solos followed and we had to not only constantly wait up for them, but had to carry a lot of gear - cookware, fuel, food - that they couldn't making our paddle a little more difficult - esp on portages. If you're carrying just your dog and your pack, I assume others are carrying your share of the food and fuel and gear as well. |
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Pinetree |
I will say with a kayak paddle I could keep up with 95% of tandem canoe people. Also in a wind I would have a heck of a time paddling without a kayak paddle. I have sat on the shore not very often, but much more when I solo due to winds and waves. A solo is a lot of fun tho. |
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Savage Voyageur |
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billconner |
You might want to consider one tandem as easier if someone becomes injured. More work. Effectively like three more portage loads, but doable. Mot often advised but might be perfect for your group. If renting canoes, I'm sure 5 solos are much more than a tandem and a triple. And you can't have 5 canoes in a group. 3 solos and a tandem and trade off. |
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ManAndDog |
Is this a dumb idea? Is the workload close to the same per person on a solo canoe vs 2 people on a tandem canoe? |
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ManAndDog |
Looks like our option now is one 2-person and three 1-persons |
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boonie |
Savage Voyageur: "You may not know this but the rules state 9 person 4 canoes. " Yes, I was going to point that out too. Also 2 solos weigh more than one tandem as far as portaging. And it's important to get a solo of the proper size for the paddler and load. A very large person and a very small person in the same size canoe won't have anywhere near an equal workload. But I do prefer to paddle my own canoe :). |
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ManAndDog |
I've never done a solo canoe before and I have my large dog with me. Can me, my 120 lb dog and my pack fit in a solo canoe? |
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sns |
ManAndDog: "And I have a follow up question. Maybe...probably...depends on you and the solo model you choose. How big are you, and how much gear will you carry? |
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ManAndDog |
sns: "ManAndDog: "And I have a follow up question. I'm 6ft 200 lbs and I'll just have my 65L Osprey pack. Do you have a solo model you would recommend? |
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billconner |
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HayRiverDrifter |
I love my solo mostly because it give me the option to head off alone for a few hours or a day. |
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boonie |
ManAndDog: "And I have a follow up question. I'm sure you can find one that will be appropriate for that. I don't know what will be available for you - check with the outfitter. A Northstar Northwind solo with 370 lbs. is at the 4" waterline according to Northstar website. |
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MidwestFirecraft |
ManAndDog: "Is this a dumb idea? Is the workload close to the same per person on a solo canoe vs 2 people on a tandem canoe? Not a dumb idea. If you have never paddled a solo canoe it is a whole different beast. I would not want my first time to be on a wilderness trip. You have to use different canoe strokes like the c stroke, etc. to keep any kind of a straight line. It is entirely different from paddling a tandem prospector backwards from the bow. If you know anyone that has a solo canoe I would highly suggest having the members of your group try it before committing to a multi day trip. Of course you can always use a kayak paddle. |