Boundary Waters Quetico Forum :: Listening Point - General Discussion :: Wearing lifejackets all the time
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Savage Voyageur |
timatkn: "Mcsween’s story changed things for me." Yup, Mikes story finally convinced me to always wear mine too. |
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L.T.sully |
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trstuck |
butthead: "PineKnot: "Curious here. I see a post saying there's a small amount of actual drowning in BWCA every year. Since I don't hear about any drownings, is this true? If so, and if half the paddlers are not wearing PFDs, then.....is there a problem? I also admit I don't wear mine unless in rough water, but this thread is convicting and I may use my REI dividend to purchase an inflatable. I think the issue for me has been 1) I'm a good swimmer and 2) my PFD is somewhat uncomfortable to paddle in, and I've realized that if I were unconscious, it would flip me face down in the water. This brings up the question of rentals. Most trips I'm on, nearly all members take the PFD given with the rental canoe as they don't own their own. I do own my own because I have a canoe. We all know that the PFDs that outfitters rent with their canoes are sufficient in keeping you afloat (if you're wearing it!), but we probably all recognize that they might not be comfortable for a given renter. Have those of you who require members in your party to wear them heard this argument? |
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CabinAfter |
Other reasons: -It has emergency gear that I want access to all the time -You never plan on an emergency. Wearing a PFD all the time is a first step to being ready. |
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Canoearoo |
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JWilder |
trstuck: " This thread (and others like it) are planting seeds of wisdom, and that wisdom is bearing fruit in those willing to heed the warnings of those who wish to share there experiences. Every situation provides an opportunity to educate and improve. Take a minute to celebrate... JW |
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OldFingers57 |
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tumblehome |
I started wearing my PFD all the time about a dozen years ago. Age and wisdom caused this. Two years ago I took a spill in Quetico and I feel I would have drowned had I not had my PFD. I was in mild current in a river and underestimated the volume of water flowing through a channel. In a slight turn, it caught my canoe, flipped it around and tossed me out. All of this happened before I knew what was going on. Wear your PFD, make not excuses not to. Tom |
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Canoearoo |
RT: "I own an expensive, very nice, live vest. But I admit that I do not wear it all the time. If the day is sunny and warm and the water is calm, It is sitting behind my seat, and not on my body. It goes on during wavy days, stormy days, rainy days, and any time I just feel it should be on. Maybe try an inflatable for the nice days? |
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gravelroad |
Epilogue to the story: On occasion l’ve been called on to find the remains of those who weren’t raised right. |
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gravelroad |
MikeinMpls: "straighthairedcurly: "butthead: "Similar topic, capsizing. How many of you have actually practiced a capsize? Or tried swimming with the PFD on? I called the local FD in advance whenever I practiced kayak self-rescues in NH. That message would be harder to distribute in a larger community, of course. |
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casualbriday |
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ockycamper |
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Bobsandberg82 |
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bottomtothetap |
For me, two incidents solidified always wearing a life jacket: 1. I was fishing with my brother-in-law on a central MN lake and our canoe dumped when we were buzzed by a speed boat (Jerks! They never even stopped!) I was wearing my life jacket but my BIL was not. For the first few moments we were okay as we assessed the situation. But soon my BIL started to panic as he quickly tired from working to stay above water and he started to cry out that he could not breathe even though his head was well above water. Fortunately, his life jacket was floating nearby and I was able to get it to him and help him into it. I was able to do that as I didn't need to expend the energy to keep myself afloat--the lifejacket was doing that work. 2. In 2012 I was guiding a church youth group and we were only about a mile from the end of our trip on Moose Lake off of the Fernberg Road. The rule on these trips was to absolutely ALWAYS have your lifejacket on ANYTIME you were in the canoe--a rule that the youth abided by but usually protested at least a little bit. This was implemented not only because it was a good idea but it helped simplify policy and part of our purpose on these trips was to teach good practice. The breeze that day was making it a bit choppy and suddenly a combination of that chop and boat wake sent two of our paddlers over--one of whom was my own son. They were stunned and slightly panicked but overall OK as their lifejackets were keeping their heads above water. Nothing was lost other than a little pride and a small amount of gear that got ruined when it got soaked. My boy did swallow a bit of water when he went in and it was surprising how quickly he became not hypothermic but at least notably chilled! I am convinced I still have my son today because of that lifejacket rule. And another family has their son too. |
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Argo |
JWilder: "trstuck: "Canoearoo: I edited my post because I realized it was not exactly every year I post a post like this, just a lot of years, and I didn't want to sound as preachy and the original edit sounded a little to preachy. I am not trying to trick people into wearing there life jackets, but though stories maybe others can learn without a hard lesson." For me, I'm like RT just mentioned. When the water is warm it usually goes behind me. But I have been paddling for as long as I've been playing hockey - about fifty years. About fifteen years ago I watched a teammate lose a couple of chicklets as he took a puck in the mouth. To this day, recreational men's hockey only requires the use of eye visors, not full face protection. At that time I used a half-visor too. As Mike Tyson once said, "Everyone's got a plan until they get punched in the mouth." Or gets a puck or a stick in the mouth. So I switched right then and there to a full face shield. At first it sucked. Your game suffers a bit. But you suck it up and thank the lord that you don't have to learn the hard lesson the way my teammate did. So I will get a good comfortable PFD and suck it up when I'm roasting in the summer heat. And I will curse you Canoearoo for being so clever and persuasive :) |
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awbrown |
So, I always wear mine any time I'm on the water because you never know when you're going to take a swim. |
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fadersup |
If I die doing something stupid, no one will be surprised, but the older I get, the more I try to avoid it. |
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R1verrunner |
If you don't like it you don't go along on any of my trips. Event older and smarter. |
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justpaddlin |
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Bromel |
In the early 1990s, my brothers and I were on our annual trip and had just crossed south from the Quetico into Basswood Lake. The wind was blowing down the length of the lake towards the East and there were big rollers coming down the lake. We were paddling our Old Town Canadienne south and parallel to the waves trying to cut around a point. Well, we got caught in the trough of a big wave and it tipped both of us out. The canoe stayed upright and was immediately blown away by the wind. We had no chance to "stay with the canoe." My older brother was in a T-shirt, jeans and boots and he was doing OK treading water. I, on the other hand, also had a thick fleece on. I was struggling to tread water and stay afloat. The wet fleece felt like a heavy anchor around my neck. And my big hiking boots and jeans didn't help any. I felt really bogged down. All that I could think about was getting that fleece off. So I yelled at my brothers in the other canoe that I was going under to take off my fleece. I knew that the second I stopped treading water I would sink like a rock. So I put my hands back over my shoulders and tried to pull the fleece off as I usually do. But the wet fleece stuck to me like glue. I pulled and pulled and I finally realized that it was not coming off. Then I looked up toward the light and realized that I was about 20 feet underwater. I was deep and fully dressed with boots, jeans and a thick wet fleece. This is about the time that my life flashed before my eyes. I knew this situation was getting serious. I had been struggling a lot and needed air fast. I kicked my legs like a mother and swam towards the surface. I just had to get to the surface then figure out the next step. I kicked and swam and struggled. Finally, I broke the surface and was completely exhausted. I had never been a good swimmer. But I remembered that when I was in swimming lessons when I was a little kid, I would just do a back float if I was tired. So I took a huge breath and and just relaxed and tried to float on my back. It worked and I floated for another minute until the other canoe arrived to help me. I can't tell you how relieved I was to grab that canoe. That's the closest that I have ever come to dying. Needless to say, everyone in our group always wears a PFD. You never know when something might happen. It's just better to have it on than to not have it on. If you think that I'm a sissy for wearing a PFD, I can show you hundreds of news reports of people dying because they didn't have a PFD on. |
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Bromel |
In the early 1990s, my brothers and I were on our annual trip and had just crossed south from the Quetico into Basswood Lake. The wind was blowing down the length of the lake towards the East and there were big rollers coming down the lake. We were paddling our Old Town Canadienne south and parallel to the waves trying to cut around a point. Well, we got caught in the trough of a big wave and it tipped both of us out. The canoe stayed upright and was immediately blown away by the wind. We had no chance to "stay with the canoe." My older brother was in a T-shirt, jeans and boots and he was doing OK treading water. I, on the other hand, also had a thick fleece on. I was struggling to tread water and stay afloat. The wet fleece felt like a heavy anchor around my neck. And my big hiking boots and jeans didn't help any. I felt really bogged down. All that I could think about was getting that fleece off. So I yelled at my brothers in the other canoe that I was going under to take off my fleece. I knew that the second I stopped treading water I would sink like a rock. So I put my hands back over my shoulders and tried to pull the fleece off as I usually do. But the wet fleece stuck to me like glue. I pulled and pulled and I finally realized that it was not coming off. Then I looked up toward the light and realized that I was about 20 feet underwater. I was deep and fully dressed with boots, jeans and a thick wet fleece. This is about the time that my life flashed before my eyes. I knew this situation was getting serious. I had been struggling a lot and needed air fast. I kicked my legs like a mother and swam towards the surface. I just had to get to the surface then figure out the next step. I kicked and swam and struggled. Finally, I broke the surface and was completely exhausted. I had never been a good swimmer. But I remembered that when I was in swimming lessons when I was a little kid, I would just do a back float if I was tired. So I took a huge breath and and just relaxed and tried to float on my back. It worked and I floated for another minute until the other canoe arrived to help me. I can't tell you how relieved I was to grab that canoe. That's the closest that I have ever come to dying. Needless to say, everyone in our group always wears a PFD. You never know when something might happen. It's just better to have it on than to not have it on. If you think that I'm a sissy for wearing a PFD, I can show you hundreds of news reports of people dying because they didn't have a PFD on. |
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R1verrunner |
3Ball: "nofish: "Now if you paddle with me you'll be wearing a life jacket. " Until one of them drowns. You will have a change of heart. When I worked as a deputy I pulled to many bodies out of lakes and saw the hurt the survivors went through. |
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Argo |
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Pinetree |
Like I said get a PFD you like. |
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Freeleo1 |
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Freeleo1 |
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schwartyman |
Pinetree: "Wonder how many even think about a what if situation of capsizing. This is a great question. I haven't much. This year my group thought of it on a layover day with nice weather, so we practiced right in-front of camp. 5/5 people got back in our 2p kevlars, but only 1/5 could get in the fiberglass solo. The solo is my canoe and I wasn't the one who could get in. Definitely opened my eyes, and made me think more. More practice in my future. I cannot imagine the panic id feel if i tipped in that solo with no life-jacket on. Wear em. |
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RunningFox |
A very sad situation. I think drownings & hypothermia should be studied in school. It just keeps happening too often. |
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MattyT |
Admittedly, in previous years I've always been the type to have my pfd sitting in the canoe next to me, partly because we've done smaller water the past couple years, and partly the hubris of being a 20-something male. My outlook changed this year since I was the trip planner/group leader taking some first timers up, and felt personally responsible for the groups safety. I saw this thread before going out and it provided me with the sense of caution needed to avoid a bad situation becoming much worse: The other weekend (8/21) we went in at Trout (as a last minute plan C after closure of my other 2 EPs due to the fires - obviously we left before we got the full BWCA closure announcement). Wind was consistent 15-20 mph with gusts higher. We took a tow across Vermillion, and traversing the narrow section of Trout to get to the Pine portage wasnt much of an issue, but the open water on Pine had some solid whitecaps and the wind made keeping course difficult for some of the less experienced paddlers in my group. As you can probably guess, one of our boats got parallel to the trough and capsized as we were searching for sites. I was glad I had warned my group ahead of time that pfds should be worn at all times, and especially in wind and on bigger water, and to clip their packs into the canoes in the event they flipped. What could have been a disaster was limited to a 100 yd push/tow to shore with no loss of gear, just some wet tripmates and soggy gear. We also had the excellent fortune of running into a couple at an occupied site who were welcoming and understanding of what we had been through and offered for us to share. We told them we'd do our diligence to check the remaining sites on the lake before bunking with them, but found them all occupied (by 10:30 a.m.!). By day's end, the wind died down, sleeping bags and hammocks were able to be dried out, and we were safe in camp enjoying a classic BWCA sunset. While I am proud of how calmly our group handled the situation, and some solid adversity fighting, I dont like to think of how much worse the day could have gone had I not read through this thread - so thanks! Matty T |
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NotSoFast |
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backpackingZombie |
That being said, I have a friend who generally doesn't wear his but a few big waves almost tossed his canoe and soon enough after that he has his lifejacket on and zippered. It scared him and you shouldn't be worrying about keeping afloat when your canoe tips. |
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mike2019 |
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Dolpho |
I have tested the stability of our canoe when loaded and unless I’m practically standing on a gunnel it isn’t going over. So if this scenario is viewed as too risky, I would ask if you allow anyone to swim while on your trips? Can they freestyle swim with their head in the water and rotate to breath? Do you allow anyone to swim completely under water? “ Dive” and put their head under while standing knee deep to take that first plunge? As mentioned in the OP, drowning is the inhalation of water. I see less risk in paddling in the very narrow set of circumstances listed above then swimming and frolicking in the water at our campsite. |
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MikeinMpls |
Mike |
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mcsweem |
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Captn Tony |
I was paddling with Gunsmoke on Seagull with the wind in some pretty big waves and dropped my paddle and two things caught my attention, 1st was how fast the paddle was left behind and thinking that I wasn’t sure could swim into the waves and wind to rescue it and if I could, it would be almost impossible without a life jacket. The other problem was trying to see the paddle as it was disappearing between the waves. If I’d been actually in the water it would have been almost impossible to keep track of it. Another time I was with a new new and we dumped the canoe and trying to drag the canoe into the wind to shore was impossible even with a life jacket on, Lastly Gunsmoke and I were practicing an eddy turn and dumped the canoe in rapids. I was caught in under tow and I didn’t panic as I had my life jacket on. I remember thinking just hold your breath and eventually you’ll pop to the surface. Without the life jacket I would’ve been in full mode and might not be eating this post right now. And these rapids were on the mighty Root River so not like some major white water or major river! |
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R1verrunner |
Pinetree: "Wonder how many even think about a what if situation of capsizing. Also if any wind you will go one way and the canoe will go another. Anyone ever practice tipping over in shallow water? When I Younger I practiced flipping and recovery a lot in shallow and deep. What's shallow any thing you can stand up in below chest level is fairly easy to recover from. |
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Canoearoo |
Pilgrimpaddler: "I had 2 friends about 40 years ago that tried to canoe across the St. Croix in October on a cold and windy day. They capsized and one of them made it to shore. PFDs would have saved one life then, so 40 some years of life and untold heartache for the family of the guy who didn’t make it would have been prevented but for the lack of a PFD. I learned a lesson then. " What is crazy is we did the paddle boat ride on the st. Croix and we saw 100s of canoers with no life jackets. I'm very suprized there aren't more drownings on that river. |
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3Ball |
nofish: "Now if you paddle with me you'll be wearing a life jacket. " My partners can do whatever they please, but I always wear one myself. |
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MikeinMpls |
I remain dumbfounded on two accounts re: PFDs: 1. The amount of paddlers I see not wearing them. I would venture to guess at least half of the trippers I see are not wearing them, and it appears to be particularly common in parties paddling outfitter boats, and; 2. The relatively small amount of actual drowning casualities in the BWCA every year. Mike |
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Canoearoo |
**Yes I know its your right to not wear a life jacket, you are an amazing swimmer, and the water is calm... but that isn't what this post is about. :) |
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Canoearoo |
Friends of ours had a 17 year old son who was also an amazing swimmer. He was on the swim team and could swim very far and tread water for hours. One hot July summer day, the winds were calm, the water was warm and he was having fun with his friends on a local lake. One thing led to another and he ended up in the lake and never came back up. Cause of death was drowning. No drugs or anything was in his system, and he didn't hit his head. He just accidently inhaled water. If he had been wearing a PFD, the story would have been different. After that day, I started to wear my life jacket all the time. If someone who is a great swimmer, on a perfect day, and is young and healthy, could drown, then I could as well. I won't risk that for my family. It isn't worth it. If my PFD is not comfortable, then I will upgrade to one that is. So what is your story? |
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Savage Voyageur |
I just bought a new inflatable PFD for this years trip. It's so light, I don’t even know it’s on. |
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bhouse46 |
Regarding the PFD, info from this forum helped me learn from others. Being a little older, I also am getting over the 'that will never happen to me'. And back when I thought more like a dog, I did not need no stinking leashes either. |
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straighthairedcurly |
Side story: While kayaking at Taylor's Falls, one of the group members flipped over and couldn't roll back up. He came out of his boat and I paddled over to give him a tow to shore. As I approached him, he suddenly disappeared under the water. Completely gone! I kept scanning the water frantically! What had happened? He was wearing a PFD, how could he go under so suddenly and completely in a relatively calm stretch of water. Just as suddenly, he bobbed back to the surface and grabbed the stern of my boat. He explained that a whirlpool of current had sucked him under and he was helpless to do anything. He could see the sun and the sky, but the whirlpool was pulling him down and spinning him around and around. Once the whirlpool had dissipated, his PFD brought him right back to the surface. Scary! |
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SkiYee |
Side note - I used to take our church kids to a camp near Ely. One of the directors was a retired police officer who was also a certified diver and it was his job to dive to the bottom of lakes and recover bodies. During camp orientation, he stressed the rule of wearing a PFD anytime we were on the water because, and I quote, "I've never recovered a body from the bottom of lake that was wearing a PFD". (This is the part that stuck.) |
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Porkeater |
When I was a kid, my dad always made me wear one, but never did himself. At some point, I remember asking that question and getting the standard, "Because I said so," which was successful in obtaining compliance at the time, but no appreciation for doing it in the long term. Now, it has just become second nature. |
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boonie |
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Northwoodsman |
You never know when you're going to have a heart attack, a stroke, blackout or whatever. You don't have a chance if you fall in the water and sink. |
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A1t2o |
Another part is telling the less responsible or experienced people to wear theirs. Sometimes people do dumb things, like standing up in a canoe or letting the wind push them sideways in rough water. It's hard for me to yell at others for not wearing theirs if I'm not wearing mine. Even if I'm not nearly as much of a risk factor as they are. |
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straighthairedcurly |
SkiYee: " One of the directors was a retired police officer, "I've never recovered a body from the bottom of lake that was wearing a PFD". (and this is the part to stuck) " Powerful statement. I have had a lot of events that have struck home with other people drowning or nearly drowning. Paddling the Wolf River one time with my husband and a friend when we saw a pale face just under the water and a weak hand trying to reach out to one of our kayaks. No PFD, of course. I positioned my stern for him to grab and hauled him to shore. He couldn't stand up without help. As my friend and I held him up and helped him walk down the shore to find his friends in their raft, we listened to his story. He was a young guy in the military training as a parachutist. He was from Louisiana and had never learned to swim. At the top of the last rapids (Class III/IV drop), he had stood up and said, "Watch this!" to his buddies as he leaped out of the raft. As you may have already guessed, he was quite drunk. If we had not been exactly where we were, he would have died that day. Here was my conversation with him: Me: "Would you ever jump out of an airplane without a parachute?" Him: "Of course not! That would be stupid and I would die." Me: "Well, that is what you just did. And you are one lucky SOB that we were there to save you." Him: "Oh..." Then my friend diverted our path so the drunk dude walked through poison ivy. When I pointed it out to her, she said, "I want to leave him with something that will remind him of this experience when he sobers up." Oh, and I have taught my son to always be wary of people who say, "Watch this!" They are invariably about to do something really stupid! |
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jwartman59 |
straighthairedcurly: "When I started whitewater kayaking, I naturally started wearing my PFD all the time. After that, I started feeling weird if I wasn't wearing it when I was in a canoe. Just like I feel weird if I don't wear a seatbelt in a car. I’ve done those rapids probably one hundred times. It looks like you are in quiet water and the next thing you know the river has sucked your canoe in. Definitely time for a PFD. I had this happen to me in northern Quebec... we were crossing the river to portage a canyon with a waterfall at the end. Everything was cool and suddenly we were swimming and the canoe was nowhere to be seen. I’m swimming like a mad man in class four rapids, with being swept over the enormous forty foot falls looking like a possibility. The canyon has steep cliffs so finding a handhold is challenging. Suddenly, the canoe appears. It shoots out of the raging river like a missile fired from a submarine. I survived, the canoe went over the falls slightly worse for the wear. I was wearing a PFD. I always wear a PFD when I’m in my not loved Wenonah, always in my pal unless I’m kneeling. It depends on many factors, but if there is any concern at all, I’ll wear my PFD. |
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CityFisher74 |
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chessie |
What changed: 1. Purchasing a comfortable/functional PFD. Once I coughed up $ for a good one, I was more likely to wear it. 2. I worked with a guy, Jon, who was/is on a sheriff's rescue dive team. Jon is an amazing, skilled, experienced diver. What I know is that most of his work wasn't rescue, it was recovery. Enough of Jon's real life stories, happening in my own neighborhood, so to speak, did it, including a story of recovering bodies out of 8' of water on a perfectly calm sunny day. Stuff happens, and through Jon, I got a glimpse into just how quickly, and in such a variety of ways, one can, frankly, drown. Decades ago, I lost a great Aunt and Uncle on a river in southern MN. They left behind two kids who witnessed the drowning. They were attempting to rescue drowning victims and got caught in a whirlpool. I wear a PFD to save my own hiney, but also because I do not wish to put others in a terrible or risky predicament. |
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schwartyman |
The tow operations, as some of you may know, operate rain or shine, wind or no wind. The only time a tow is "typically" delayed is due to lightning or SEVERE weather. One day, the weather was incredibly windy. I don't recall the exact mph or anything, but it was windy enough to where we considered delaying a tow to American Point; we did not, and the tow began. After crossing through Munkers Narrows, entering the BIG water on Sag, I noticed something in the water going back and forth. I dialed in on it and as I got closer, I noticed it was a paddle waving in the water. I saw heads in the water and canoes upside down. I immediately went to help. After getting to where they were and making sure everyone was okay, I asked how long they had been capsized, to which they replied, "Over two hours." Now, of course, this is a completely avoidable situation. Most of us here would have never considered crossing Sag in those winds. Every person in that party was wearing their lifejackets and every person was okay - outside of losing two bags. I'm concerned if someone hadn't been wearing their lifejacket, with those winds, in that big water, a different story MIGHT be told. That instance was enough for me. |
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butthead |
Similar topic, capsizing. How many of you have actually practiced a capsize? Or tried swimming with the PFD on? Easy, and a good learning experience! butthead |
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AlmostCanadian |
The story that affirmed it for me happened in high school. We were on a week and half trip down the Gammon and Bloodvein rivers. The third day we ran our first big rapids. The gear had been portaged so we could run empty and "practice". My brother took the back of our Penobscot 17 and off we went. Nothing technical, just a straight shoot into standing waves. It was an awesome adrenaline rush as we built up our speed and then WOOSH! The first wave came in and hit me straight in the chest. The next two completely filled the boat and all of a sudden we were swimming. Our dad and uncle caught up to us with the gear and helped us pull the canoe to shore and bail out. This doesn't directly effect why I wear a lifejacket on small calm lakes, but during those times I'm happy to have extra pockets. |
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nofish |
I didn't always wear my life jacket or my climbing harness while hunting before I had kids. As soon as the first one was born it was like there was a switch flipped in my brain and all of a sudden it seemed stupid not to. Now if you paddle with me you'll be wearing a life jacket. |
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HighnDry |
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jdrocks |
since then, i've been in the water more times that i care to admit, sometimes in trying circumstance and plenty of drama. always had a PFD...i'm still here. |
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mgraber |
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afromaniac |
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butthead |
Argo: "If you capsize wearing hiking boots you'll be really happy to be wearing your life vest. " If you are referring to being "dragged down by the weight" pertaining to boots, rubber, or leather. That is an old wife's tail dis-proven many time. They do hamper swimming by limiting foot motion. butthead |
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beanpole |
Several years ago while kayaking on the St. Croix River with 2 friends and a friend's daughter, we came upon unexpected rapids (the river was very flooded but every report I saw said the flow was manageable - not fast). My friend's daughter went in - wearing a life jacket - and then my friend went in - not wearing a life jacket. It all ended well, but she has never had such a harrowing experience. She wasn't sure she was going to make it. If her daughter had not been wearing one, I don't think she would have made it. She wears her life jacket on a regular basis now. |
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Argo |
butthead: "Argo: "If you capsize wearing hiking boots you'll be really happy to be wearing your life vest. " Indeed I was not referring to the weight of them, just the limiting movement. And it's a been-there-done-that thing for me unfortunately. |
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merlyn |
One thing I should mention is that I don't usually ware the PFD in the marsh only when crossing the main body of the lake so why I put it on early I have no idea. |
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JWilder |
Your opening statement to this thread says, " I know wearing life jackets all the time is a hotly debated topic..." I understand this was not the purpose of your post, to debate whether it is wise to wear or not to wear your PFD, BUT. This thread crushes that debate. It is over. The consensus from the experienced is: wear your damn PFD. Thank you and God bless, JW |
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Northwoodsman |
Perhaps Adam should add another "badge" to our profiles. For those of us who pledge to wear a PFD WHENEVER we are on the water we get an "PFD" icon by our name. Maybe once people, whether novices or seasoned paddlers, take notice or ask what it means more people would follow suit. A flying moose wearing a PFD. |
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Canoearoo |
JWilder: "Canoearoo, Yup exactly... Real stories might save real lives |
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Pilgrimpaddler |
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butthead |
Canoearoo: And keep on posting these! Very important reminders and items to think about. butthead |
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Canoearoo |
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missmolly |
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mgraber |
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Chuckles |
Canoearoo: "me. What is your story? A few years ago we were at the island site on Crab, first weekend of October. Temps and water were chilly for swimming, but not a real factor. Calm day, casually pulling two canoes into camp. Everyone is wearing pdfs. A guy gets out of the front of the other canoe onto shore, as he gets out the weight shifts, the front lifts and the guy in the back goes into the drink. He goes completely under and then pops up. He frantically gets hold of the canoe and eventually finds a rock that he can just balance on to get is face over the canoe. Throughout this whole process (maybe 5 seconds) he's totally silent. He then starts braying like a dying donkey and spitting out water. It was a scary sound. He inhaled water as he want in and couldn't breathe. It took him no less that 5 minutes to clear his lungs enough to walk the 10 feet to shore. We were laughing about it 5 minutes later. No way he survives without that PFD to hold him up while he coughs that crap out. He was: -a healthy, strong adult -good swimmer -10 feet from shore -in water only a deep as he is tall -two steps from knee deep water -in calm water I believe we could have rescued him, but I'm not 100% sure. The strong swimmer argument fell 100% apart that day. Breathe in water and you're dead. We usually trip in shoulder seasons so PFDs are a must. I got back and called my brother to discuss PFDs on our summer canoeing trip with our kids and we instituted the 100% PFD rule. One other funny/scary note: The son of the guy who went in was in our canoe 20 feet away. We were in about 1 ft of water, so he jumps out, takes off his PFD and starts to charge over to help is Dad. After some not-so-gentle words we convince him to leave his PFD on for rescues. All ended well. We tease Dad about his donkey braying and his son the knight in shining armor who sheds his armor before battle. |
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Argo |
mgraber: "Since we know canoearoo's real objective now, here is one more thing to think about for all of the "great swimmers" out there who choose to not wear a PFD. If you capsize or tumble out without capsizing, are you going to swim around to find and recover your paddle, possibly put packs back in canoe, or tow the canoe back to shore? Or are you going to high tail it to shore leaving everything behind? The latter is going to suck once the reality of having NO equipment settles in and the former is risky and very difficult. Much easier with PFD." There's another option here...which is to put your life vest on in the water. That option isn't perfect. But it is, by far, the least worst option. I can't see folks swimming for a paddle first. On the other hand... Considering a lot of inexperienced people are clueless about safety, it would be interesting to run an experiment to determine how many would consider the option of putting on their life jacket in the water if no options were presented in your scenario. Or put another way - show them a photo of canoe trippers paddling across a lake without wearing their life vests (make no remark about that), and ask them what they should prioritize if they capsized. |
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Canoearoo |
butthead: "Canoearoo: I edited my post because I realized it was not exactly every year I post a post like this, just a lot of years, and I didn't want to sound as preachy and the original edit sounded a little to preachy. I am not trying to trick people into wearing there life jackets, but though stories maybe others can learn without a hard lesson. |
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treehorn |
After that, I keep the PFD on in the boat, always. |
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tumblehome |
Canoearoo: "All these stories are amazing and humbling. Thank you everyone for sharing. " I don’t think you’re preachy if you bring this up every year. There is a new crop of canoeists every season and maybe just one person changes their thinking when reading this to later on save their own life. Repetition in training can help. Tom |
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Canoearoo |
You all need to watch drowning doesn't look like drowning And read this article |
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Canoearoo |
Argo: "So I will get a good comfortable PFD and suck it up when I'm roasting in the summer heat. And I will curse you Canoearoo for being so clever and persuasive :)" If you are too hot then take a quick swim. The PFD can help keep you cool as well when it is wet. |
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AdmAckbar13 |
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HighnDry |
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Gaidin53 |
We had to wear them at Northern Tier when I want for my 1st trip a few years ago since college. We even had to wear them swimming at Northern tier. I enforce it now religiously on trips I lead with family! I also enforce it for swimming with some room for removing it while being supervised depending on the swimming location. Wet boots are always on while swimming which is part of the reason it makes more sense to swim with the PFD on. You don’t swim nearly as well or float as well wearing the boots! I’m leading a trip with 3 other adult men friends of mine end of August and we’ll have to see how it goes with enforcing the we paddle with them on and the other rules I follow like wearing the boots. Those rules make so much sense on canoe trips in the BWCA and Quetico. Ryan |
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corvidologist |
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3Ball |
Well, no. I am not into telling people what to do. I find that to be the least productive way of convincing anyone to do anything. |
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Portage99 |
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bradcrc |
I also have one with lots of pockets, and I find that very convenient (flashlight, head net, rope, keys, sunblock) I really like it. Surprisingly a lot of people don't know what cold shock response is, or that it's what kills most people, or they don't believe it exists. In a nutshell, if I hit you with a branding iron, you'd scream, very loud. It's an involuntary response or shock, right? makes sense to most people. Same thing happens when you've been sitting in a hot canoe in the sun, and suddenly fall into cold water. you scream involuntarily. if you're mouth is underwater when you gasp for air, you fill your lungs with water instead, and you're done. doesn't matter how good of a swimmer you are cause you don't ever get that chance. Crazy, right? Why isn't this more well known?? You're probably fine 99% of the time without one, but for me, I just don't want to be one of those people who's story ends with the line, "and he wasn't wearing a PFD" and people just shake their heads at my passing before moving on to the sports page. I still got too much left to do. |
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papalambeau |
If you don't want to do this, you don't go on any of our trips. Key event was on one of our first trips in the early '90s on Seagull when the wind picked up and the guys who weren't wearing their lifejackets had to stop paddling to put theirs on. We didn't have any capsizing, but a few came way too close. That did it for our crew. |
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straighthairedcurly |
MikeinMpls: "straighthairedcurly: "butthead: "Similar topic, capsizing. How many of you have actually practiced a capsize? Or tried swimming with the PFD on? Never had an issue on Lake Owasso in Roseville. We just select an area that is close enough to a beach area that it is obvious we are practicing. |
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DeanL |
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Stumpy |
R1verrunner: "Any time in the canoe a life jacket is worn. Same here |
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mgraber |
One did not involve a canoe, but did involve going into 45 degree water. I found that I could barely move anything within five minutes and was lucky to get out. We do frequent spring trips so I will never go without. The second was intentionally capsizing my canoe in windy conditions and discovering that the canoe drifted much faster than most, if not all, swimmers could swim, especially in wet clothes. You will not always be near shore. The last is also not canoe related, but is boat fishing related, so probably still appropriate. I was trolling for walleye on a calm sunny day a mile off shore in a 20 ft Lund. I was not wearing a PFD. I hooked a large fish and, while fighting it, stepped onto the front deck where I slipped on the vinyl floor and fell overboard. I still had my rod and the fish as I watched my boat troll away from me. Why am I still here? My buddy was with me and circled back to pick me up, but I often fish alone. I doubt I could swim a mile, especially wearing boots, a flannel shirt and jeans. |
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straighthairedcurly |
butthead: "Similar topic, capsizing. How many of you have actually practiced a capsize? Or tried swimming with the PFD on? This is a requirement for anyone going on a trip with us or anytime we acquire a new/different canoe. I got in the habit of practicing this when I went to Camp Menogyn. |
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Jackfish |
Back in the fall of 2013, I had a sudden cardiac arrest. Thanks to an AED at the site and open heart surgery a few days later, I'm still here to talk about it. I ended up getting a pacemaker defibrillator implanted to keep my heart in proper rhythm. If it gets out of rhythm, the pacemaker makes it right. If it can't make it right and my heart exceeds a certain number of beats per minute, the defibrillator gives my heart a shock to get it back in normal rhythm again. It happened a few times early on and you can take my word for it, it's not something you want to have happen regularly. Thanks to medication, it hasn't for a few years now. On all paddling trips after that, my PFD gets worn. I don't want to have something happen while in the canoe, then fall into the lake and go straight down. At least if I'm floating, the guys can fish me out. :) |
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paddlinjoe |
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MikeinMpls |
straighthairedcurly: "butthead: "Similar topic, capsizing. How many of you have actually practiced a capsize? Or tried swimming with the PFD on? I've wanted to try this, but it's very difficult in the big city. If we practiced this on a Minneapolis city lake (many close to us), 911 would be bombarded by calls reporting the capsizing. I'm not wanting the Minneapolis Fire Department to respond to my practice session! Mike |
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andym |
Practicing capsizing and swimming with PFDs is a good idea. I will admit that it has been a while for me with canoes. Practicing capsizing, recovery, and rescue is standard practice in the sea kayaking and sailing communities. It seems much less common among people who canoe. |
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Blatz |
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JWilder |
When I am traveling in canoe country, my PFD is a apart of me just as much as my pants, head cover, or foot wear. It is always on. When I am paddling, it is on, when I am portaging or exploring, it is on. It is essential, along with what is stored in the pockets. But, when I get to camp, it comes off just like my wet boots. It's like coming home from work and the first thing you do is change out of your jeans and boots and put on the shorts and flip flops. Happy hour folks... |
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HistoryDoc |
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Canoearoo |
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PineKnot |
I will admit I do not wear my PFD unless in rough water.....recently bought an inflatable NRS to fix my error....as others have said, with age comes wisdom. But, how can we teach folks that it is best to actually "wear" a PFD as opposed to sit on it or have it in the canoe/boat just in case it's needed....? |
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bobbernumber3 |
Thanks Janice, Atikokan Aeroservice, Q Rangers, and others. |
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butthead |
PineKnot: "Curious here. I see a post saying there's a small amount of actual drowning in BWCA every year. Since I don't hear about any drownings, is this true? If so, and if half the paddlers are not wearing PFDs, then.....is there a problem? Most casual paddlers just take a PFD because it's a law. Buy/borrow the cheapest to comply then never put it on. The secret to usage is comfort. Once past the cost of comfort both monetary and personal choice, continuous use follows. butthead |
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woodsandwater |
Canoearoo: "I know wearing life jackets all the time is a hotly debated topic. This is not the purpose for this post. Assuming you do wear your life jacket every time you are in the canoe or boat, I want to know what is that one event or that one reason you now wear your PFD all the time. What is your story? Shouldn't be hotly debated at all. Live or die. |
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JWilder |
PineKnot: "Curious here. I see a post saying there's a small amount of actual drowning in BWCA every year. Since I don't hear about any drownings, is this true? If so, and if half the paddlers are not wearing PFDs, then.....is there a problem? On another discussion on PFD's, I don't remember WEAR :) Someone used the analogy of the seatbelt. If you are not wearing it, and you find yourself in a situation where you do, it is most likely too late. So, I guess if I was educating the youth, or the "age of invincibility" (20 somethings). Use the seatbelt analogy. Or, look them straight in the face and share with them that life and death situation WEAR someone wasn't WEARING their PFD and ask, "Do you want to get dead? No? Well good, WEAR your PFD." |
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mschi772 |
Canoearoo: " what is that one event or that one reason you now wear your PFD all the time. What is your story? " Knowing my whole life, but ignoring most of the time that it is stupid not to--if you're not wearing it and find yourself in need of it, it is too late to put it on. Eventually I just read one too many stories about someone drowning while also reading in the same story what a good swimmer they were and how experienced they were. It just doesn't matter if it is warm out or if you're an amazing swimmer or if you've gone on a million trips. It doesn't matter, and it finally sank-in. I got myself a PFD that's actually comfortable to wear, and it is now one of my favorite pieces of gear. |
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bwcadan |
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santacruz |
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Spartan2 |
Now when we paddle at the lake cottage we wear them too, in spite of the fact that the lake is small and shallow. It is just a good habit. When the children, and later the grandchildren came along, there was never any argument because we always put ours on before going in a canoe (or boat.) |
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Banksiana |
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nooneuno |
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bottomtothetap |
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JWilder |
tumblehome: "Canoearoo: "All these stories are amazing and humbling. Thank you everyone for sharing. " Totally Agree. |
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trstuck |
Just thought you'd like to know that because of this thread I have decided to purchase a PFD to replace my current one and wear it always. Thank you! |
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Scout64 |
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RT |
I was my stations rescue swimmer (no, not the type in that one movie, no helo jumps for me) in the Coast Guard. So even though my swimming game is strong, I of all people, should know better. Even on nice days you can flip the boat and have it konk you in the back of the head... then that's all she wrote. |
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LDB |
Thirty years later on Basswood while being wind bound, I saw two young guys dump way out from shore, heading straight west from Green Island. Neither had on life jackets. We made it to Sunday Island. They could not swim fast enough to catch up to their canoe. We were in the process of getting out to them when an empty towboat came across the lake to their rescue. |
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ockycamper |
We go up in September when temps are cooler. We really only have one hard fast rule for the group of men our church brings up. PFD's must be worn, and fastened on, all the time when on the water. No exceptions. We also don't allow inflatables. If someone goes in unconscious the game is over. Also, we want to be able to "tow" the swimmer by the PFD if needed to the shore. |
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boonie |
Gaidin53: "Very good swimmer! I was a lifeguard for years in high school and college. I'd settle that issue as soon as possible, preferably before leaving. |
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mmrocker13 |
mgraber: "Have been a constant PFD wearer for many years and, other than getting older and wiser, there were three incidences that changed my mind. I wear one 100% of the time in the canoe (the why is another story, but like many others', involves suddenly going from calm conditions to not calm in a blink). I've gotten in the habit of also wearing a PFD while we're moving in our regular boat, as well. Your story reminded me of earlier this summer when we were up on Birch (Babbitt Birch) in our 18 ft lund. Birch has a lot of rocks and snags (and small to edium walleye :D), but is very well marked both with buoys and on maps. It's also not a busy lake like the tourist lakes, or even like Vermilion. We were done fishing for the day, and just putzing back to home, lollygagging and looking at cabins, probably 75 feet off shore. We hit an unmarked rockpile that was right below the surface and highsided. As the wind picked up and we continued to teeter, unable to get off the rocks, we had to wait and hope someone came by to pull us off. Just being in the boat was precarious as we rocked and rolled like a busload of angels balanced on the head of a pin. The hazard wasn't on any map; no marker in the water (and we can only assume the cabin owners nearby knew where it was). If we had been going any faster than a stroll--if we had hit it going 45 mph (hell, even 25 mph)--it could have been ugly. Not the reason I wear one, bc I already had gotten in the habit, but certainly reinforced the smart decision to do so :D |
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hobbydog |
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PeaceFrog |
boonie: "Pretty much the same story as everyone else. No big dramatic event of my own. Never wore one when I was younger, it was just a seat cushion. Learned to swim about the time I learned to walk (literally - thanks Dad). Other people's stories, older and wiser, experience. You go whitewater rafting here and wear one or you don't go. You never see a guide without one (they ain't crazy). You not only wear it, but the guides make sure it's strapped on tight enough they can haul you - not just the PFD- back in by the straps. If you flip/fall out in a class3+ rapid, you'll be damn glad it's on and on tight. " +1 |
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R1verrunner |
boonie: "Gaidin53: "Very good swimmer! I was a lifeguard for years in high school and college. No PFD worn NO going on trip settles it. |
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doorbluff84 |
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brp |
This forum has made me a PFD "radical." I always wear one and I am the only adult wearing one on my extended family's pontoon outings. It is a subtle way to tell my kids I love them. |
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Cricket67 |
Wear a life jacket 100% of the time while in a canoe or Kayak. I am leading two Boy Scout groups in August and with a planning meeting schedule for tonight we will be discussing how wearing lifejackets on this trip is not optional. Seeing this thread was a great reminder. |
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KawnipiKid |
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mjmkjun |
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4keys |
And after reading all these stories for years on this board, we still wear them, Even on calm water while fishing, even with no kids at home anymore. |
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Canoearoo |
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Pinetree |
4keys: "Years ago we rarely wore them, only in storms or whitewater. Then we had kids. We made the kids wear PDFs, so then we had to also so we wouldn't hear every kids lament - "why don't you have to?" Also the PFD now are so much more comfortable than the old PFD and some had those air pockets in and over time they became very inefficient. Spend the extra money to get exactly what you want-than wear it. |
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timatkn |
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Duckman |
I make me dog wear hers, so it'd be silly for me not to wear mine. |
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yellowcanoe |
Doing capsize and realizing that I am not an octopus capable of putting on the PFD in the water and hanging on to the boat and paddle at the same time is an eye opener. I can get my PFD on in the water but it takes two hands. Where are the extra hands to grab the boat and paddle before they escape? |