Boundary Waters Quetico Forum :: Listening Point - General Discussion :: Permit hoarding is real
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eagle98mn |
My 1st trip, I was along for the ride so to speak. Friends got the permits, etc. My 2nd trip one year later I organized it with one other friend. We picked up our canoe at sawbill outfitters and watched the video just like the previous year. Then we jumped in the canoe and took off. We never actually picked up our permit and I didn’t realize there even was a physical paper since I wasn’t responsible for this the previous year (and I clearly did a bad job of listening to the video)! That night, I brought up the question of how would a ranger know we had a permit if we were stopped? Do they have satellite internet to check my reservation? My friend realized our error, but we were already up on Karl Lake with plans to loop back to Sawbill through Tuscarora, Zenith, etc. we decided to risk not having the permit and thankfully never were stopped. But on my account, it has always said I was a no-show. I was valid in everything except the documentation. I imagine this isn’t all that common, but it is my story of contribution to the unused permit problems of 2014 :) |
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x2jmorris |
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thegildedgopher |
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Soledad |
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Aldy1 |
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VoyageurNorth |
Aldy1: "I'm amazed when I see people announce on the facebook page that they cancelled two permits that are either on the same day or within days of each other. What was their plan? The hoarding is really lame and people should know better. I wish the system knew not to allow that activity from happening (ie. you cannot book two permits within a week from each other)." Holding permits is not good. However, sometimes if they have 2 permits it is for a larger group like Scouts, Church or the like. Often they have 2 separate groups going but same day and same entry, they keep them apart. |
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billconner |
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24kGold |
Even though we know that camp sight reservations at parks are now managed by a vendor rather than the park system, I also found out that many parks are owned by companies that manage the camping areas also. It's frustrating to pull into a camping area only to find that most, if not all, are reserved and then go unused. At one state camping area, we stayed at one of only four first-come-first-served sites. The rest were reserved. No one used them. The campground was almost empty. I don't know how widespread this issue is, but it's almost impossible to reserve a campsite at so many places even 3 months before you travel. Even a lot of BLM overflow camping is being closed to camping. So many things are messed up right now and the main explanation anyone gives is that it's because of Covid. Okay. That was just a rant. It kind of fit this thread. Had to get it off my chest. Can hardly wait until Quetico is available again to us south of the border. Terry |
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Savage Voyageur |
billconner: "If a BWCA permit is reserved but not picked up, does the permit become available to a walk in at some point? Even if an unused permit would become available, who can just pack up everything, drive hundreds of miles on a “maybe” there would be a permit available. Then there is the point that let’s say the cutoff is noon for permit pickup, by the time I got into a camp on the first lake it would be late. Then there is this year where it is totally packed on entry lakes. Maybe an option is raise the permit fees sky high to let’s say a hundred dollars. Then if you arrived up and got your permit you would be credited back the $94. If you don’t show you loose your deposit money. The only thing people understand is money. That would certainly stop this nonsense. Not saying this is what needs to be done, just tossing out ideas. Something needs to change. |
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yogi59weedr |
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OMGitsKa |
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Basspro69 |
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THEGrandRapids |
Basspro69: "You need a permit to go into the BWCA ?" Yes, grab as many daily permits as days you want to be out. Take the entire self permitting box for good measure, can use as fire starter for days you won't use. |
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sns |
Basspro69: "You need a permit to go into the BWCA ?" I now have some coffee in my sinuses, so thanks for that! |
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airmorse |
24kGold: "Just returned from a camping trip to Colorado and found out that third parties are buying large amounts of camping sights and then reselling them online at a higher price. This all goes back to what I said in a different thread. RESPECT. Or lack of it. And as SV suggested, jack up the permit reservation fee's, but make part of the fee's refundable upon a actually picking up your permit at a ranger station or co-op. And while I'm ranting issue a official USFS garbage bag for a refundable fee. Pack out your trash and get your cash refunded. |
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deerfoot |
Savage Voyageur: "billconner: "If a BWCA permit is reserved but not picked up, does the permit become available to a walk in at some point? +1 |
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mschi772 |
Savage Voyageur: "Maybe an option is raise the permit fees sky high to let’s say a hundred dollars. Then if you arrived up and got your permit you would be credited back the $94. If you don’t show you loose your deposit money. " Nice idea. It's fair, shouldn't be too difficult to implement, should cut-down on some of the undesirable permit-hoarding, and would provide a couple extra dollars for the USFS. Problems I see are finding a fair way to account for honest, legitimate trip cancellations without punishing people who don't deserve to be punished and the potential for the increased up-front cost to unfairly exclude many tighter-budgeted and lower income visitors. |
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Savage Voyageur |
mschi772: "Savage Voyageur: "Maybe an option is raise the permit fees sky high to let’s say a hundred dollars. Then if you arrived up and got your permit you would be credited back the $94. If you don’t show you loose your deposit money. " Ok I see your point on legitimate cancellations. How about up until a week before you can cancel, after that you go or loose the money. If I we king up there things would be different. Hahaha |
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Pinetree |
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billconner |
Savage Voyageur: "billconner: "If a BWCA permit is reserved but not picked up, does the permit become available to a walk in at some point? While I was working until 2 years ago I could often not plan ahead so would pack and head up and always found an available permit. I usually knew the date a week in advance but chances more available entry day than a week before. I think even now there are some permits available every day, and even a less desirable entry is better than a day on the job. |
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cowdoc |
billconner: "If a BWCA permit is reserved but not picked up, does the permit become available to a walk in at some point? Not sure where you draw the line. I once picked my permit up at 2....was launching on Poplar at 3 and was setting up camp on Meeds at 5:30. The rangers were just about ready to call me a no show. Not sure how you could get that permit back in the system on time. |
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billconner |
cowdoc: "billconner: "If a BWCA permit is reserved but not picked up, does the permit become available to a walk in at some point?" Perhaps not possible. So I wonder how those permits get counted. It seems the numbers presented on bwca.com reflect reservations -all that us available. Do we have any idea how many no-shows? Significant? |