Boundary Waters Quetico Forum :: Listening Point - General Discussion :: Bear Incidents
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Lawnchair107 |
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VoyageurNorth |
mjmkjun: "VoyageurNorth: Now that bear was obviously a problem bear. And I know sometimes they "move" it but I tend to think they always come back. Will the bear learn, who knows, not likely if it found human food tasty and easy. They do find it easy pickings at campgrounds, dump canisters and of course, my garbage in my opened door garage. :-) "My" bear is not a nuisance bear. She comes back sometimes but is not destructive or "demanding". Garage door closed, no sign of her then. |
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R1verrunner |
They were able to haze it out of camp. He said the bear was very slow in leaving. Even with 4 men pelting it with rocks and raising a fuss. But after a few of the rocks landed solid blows. It wandered away in no big hurry. Not normal bear behavior. |
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Springer2 |
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R1verrunner |
missmolly: "R1verrunner: "The same way a government official tells a problem bear." The same could be said for those who think that humans should bow down to bears. They are incentives never to see the bear as a problem. |
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yogi59weedr |
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sns |
yogi59weedr: "I think if we just made all the campsites look like end zones, no Bear would go near it." "After further review...the Bears Still Suck" |
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tumblehome |
jwmiller39: "There's no such thing as a problem bear... just problem people... unfortunately, the bears are the ones that have to pay the price for the problem people." Thank you. You beat me to it. People are the actual problem with their food hygiene habits. An example is my wife and I created three problem bears on our property. We feed the birds and the bears found the feeders. We kept filling the feeders and soon the bears were here more than once a day. They are now considered nuisance bears. But I caused it. Feeders taken down. We got to witness copulation today 10 feet from our window. Interesting. I would agree that the Sawbill was truly a problem due to the volume of available food from the campground. I don't have the answer to this one but dispatching the bear would be my last resort if I were in charge. Tom |
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Duckman |
R1verrunner: I think that's good advice though. A lot of people new to the woods out there. A lot of simple bear sightings might otherwise get reported as an "aggressive bear" and then authorities might actually overreact. |
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yogi59weedr |
It sounds good to track problem yogis. I hope bad campers don't make good yogis bad yogies. |
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VoyageurNorth |
2020 Superior National Forest Bear Encounter Action Plan –Bear Incident Report Date of Incident __________Time of incident___________ County ____________________ FS Ranger District_____________ DNR Conservation Officer ______________________________ Location Name (Campground, BWCAW Lake) ________________________ Site #(s) ________ Location Details(i.e.: east shore near portage.) Attach a map showing specific site if possible. Explain the Incident, Human and Bear Behavior (number of visits, time of day, what occurred, actions by people involved, bear’s behavior and the outcome). Be specific but avoid interpreting the bear behavior as much as possible. For example say “bear huffed” rather than “bear was aggressive”. |
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R1verrunner |
Why avoid interpreting bears behavior? Their behavior is far more important in determining if a bear is dangerous. Knowing a bear is a danger is far more important then just knowing when and where one shows up unless the bear is very aggressive or has actually made contact with some one. They are very reluctant do do anything. Remember, if they know a bear is aggressive and fail to do anything about it, they could have some liability if the bear attacks someone. Case out of New Mexico found that the state was liable for damages after they refused to do anything after several reports of an aggressive bear. So their "Be specific, but avoid interpreting the bear behavior as much as possible." For example say, “Bear huffed”, rather than, “Bear was aggressive”. It's just CYA. Hear no evil, see no evil, there is no evil. |
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missmolly |
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dschult2 |
Duckman: "R1verrunner: So their "Be specific but avoid interpreting the bear behavior as much as possible. For example say “bear huffed” rather than “bear was aggressive”. Yes, this is why. There are a lot of people out there who would say a bear is aggressive just because it walks through your camp. |
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Scout64 |
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yogi59weedr |
If the bears move out of Chicago...... Ok I'll stop. I don't want to get moderated... Lol guys.... |
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VoyageurNorth |
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Bingo |
Jackfish: "RR... Your post has lots of criticism, but no suggestions. Anyone can do that. What would you do? You're in charge of the BWCA for a month or two and you have to work within the parameters of the laws, your budget, staffing and everything else related to your position. What are you going to do?" +1 Exactly what I was thinking. |
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R1verrunner |
Jackfish: "RR... Your post has lots of criticism, but no suggestions. Anyone can do that. What would you do? You're in charge of the BWCA for a month or two and you have to work within the parameters of the laws, your budget, staffing and everything else related to your position. What are you going to do?" Here is a money making solution that takes into account the MN law problem bear law. Have a pool of volunteers that would hunt said bears for a fee. Charge an appropriate fee. Have the MN DNR issue a kill tag perfectly legal under MN law. Said volunteer pays the fee goes in and removes the problem bear. Problem taken care of very little personnel involved. No budget problems because said fee would cover all costs. and have money left over |
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timatkn |
yogi59weedr: "I think if we just made all the campsites look like end zones, no Bear would go near it." Great idea! |
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R1verrunner |
Scout64: "Well, if the bear follows the MN Castle Doctrine, they do not have the duty to retreat if threatened in their own home. Thus, in certain circumstances, they may use force, including deadly force, in self-defense when threatened in their own home:-)" People have been in the woods longer then any living bear. |
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whyzata |
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R1verrunner |
We just have to tell them that going to a camp site is like going to the super bowl. They show up and never get the win. IE food |
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RunningFox |
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RunningFox |
RunningFox: "Sometimes you eat the bare. Sometimes the bare eats you. Most the time you just canoe, camp, and if you’re lucky, eat walleye." |
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mjmkjun |
any slob with no regard for rules or regulations can literally create a nuisance bear in one single camping trip. then, submit an 'incident report'. unfortunately, the FS can easily find the bear but not bust the ones who create the problem bear in the first place. admittedly, it cost less to send a ranger or two out with a rifle than to patrol the many campsites. it isn't fair play to the wildlife, folks. Heck, have a pool of volunteers that would hunt said campers for a fee. |
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R1verrunner |
They are hunted every year. Killing a problem bear will have no effect on the over all population then the regular hunting season. |
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mschi772 |
Duckman: "R1verrunner: Even experienced people don't necessarily know jack about animal behavior. Great example: dog owners who've owned dogs their whole lives and still make major mistakes and fail to understand most things about dog behavior, training, and handling. If people can't even bother to learn enough about their own companions, I'm not about to trust the behavioral assessments of people regarding bears without some proof of their credibility in the realm of ethology. It is excellent advice for reports to stick to the facts and leave interpretation up to people with more expertise. |
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VoyageurNorth |
R1verrunner: "It is not like MN has a shortage of black bears. But hunting them is different from searching out a bear who maybe didn't do much of anything. I've been an outfitter for many years and have had people describe bear "visits" many ways. Some sound like they had a bear in camp, got chased off but they still considered it a problem bear. Just because you see one around camp does not mean it is a problem bear. Once in a while, early spring or late fall, I find a sow who wanders into my garage where we keep the garbage. We should have had the door closed, it was like an "invite" to dinner. She shows up every so often, she gets bigger each year so I think it is the same one. She is not a bad bear, just a wanderer from the woods near our house smelling temptation. I see her, I yell, she runs off. I don't fear her, I just want her out of my garbage. For bear hunting (not often done in the BWCA) bear hunters ask us if there has been a bear bothering people reported and they may go hunt that area. The DNR is the group that handles any problem animals, though the reports come from the Forest Service. |
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Jackfish |
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R1verrunner |
mjmkjun: "This is so ridiculous and unprofessional. It's going to be a death sentence for bears with no accountability for the behaviors of camper's compliance to bear safety rules. What is ridiculous is somebody who would rather kill people than a bear. |
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R1verrunner |
zone. It was a 100 percent chance of getting one. It is a tough hunt because of all the restrictions. The average kill might be 6 bears. How many reports on a lake or lakes in the same area should it take to deciare a problem bear. What I see one or two bears every few years cause all the problems in certain areas. Removing said bears will not hurt the over all bear population. |
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R1verrunner |
VoyageurNorth: "R1verrunner: "It is not like MN has a shortage of black bears. No it is not having done both I can tell you hunting problem bear is very similar to hunting any bear. Bears wandering around the woods being hunted haven't done anything. |
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mjmkjun |
R1verrunner: "mjmkjun: "This is so ridiculous and unprofessional. It's going to be a death sentence for bears with no accountability for the behaviors of camper's compliance to bear safety rules. Meh. You're implicating too much venom into my comment. I reversed a statement about hunting down 'said campers' instead of bears but then.........applying a harsh fine not killing'em. That would be silly, eh? |
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mjmkjun |
VoyageurNorth: Thank you for your input. I recall an incident when I was staying at Sawbill Campground when a troublesome bear had to be culled as this particular bear would just not learn and was chased off repeatedly in previous weeks. The same bear was consistently returning for its night raids and presented a potential threat to vulnerable youngsters/dogs/property in the campground. No doubt, it had enough successes in the previous raids to become conditioned. |
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jwmiller39 |
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jwmiller39 |
R1verrunner: Fixed for accuracy: Bears have been in the woods longer than any living human |
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merlyn |
For those of you who don't know, bear hunters hunt over bait. Old pastry, candy ,gummy chews and other food items are put out (legally) before hunting season to attract bears. Our intrepid hunter then sits up in a tree stand and shoots the ferocious bear. The other method is to place bait in several locations and use dog packs to locate and tree the bear. If the bear turns on the dogs the hunter refers to this as "WE are fighting the bear" even though he may well be sitting in his truck following the the event on the gps tracking collars on the dogs, when the gps stops moving he knows the bear has treed and he can go in for the kill. Bear hunting is legal and all methods are regulated by the DNR. There are many, probably most, ethical bear hunters. Bears a food driven, a poorly nourished bear can't breed or survive hibernation, they go where the food is. Bears, mice and other pack destroying critters are attracted to the mess we make. There are PROBLEM PEOPLE and there are a hell of alot more of them then bears. So no one will jump to conclusions, I'm a hunter and live in rural NE Wi. and live with wildlife all around and don't think bears are Disney characters. |
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R1verrunner |
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missmolly |
R1verrunner: "The same way a government official tells a problem bear." You have an incentive to "identify" a problem bear because you enjoy killing bears. Asking you to do so with impartiality is like expecting a Russian judge in the Olympics to score the American and Russians gymnasts with impartiality. |
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thegildedgopher |
missmolly: "R1verrunner: "The same way a government official tells a problem bear." Well said. |
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BonzSF |
yogi59weedr: "I think if we just made all the campsites look like end zones, no Bear would go near it."Now that’s just funny |
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VoyageurNorth |
Two from same party (must have gone through Agnes & camped their twice) 6/13 Bear in camp, it huffed. They hung food pack on tree, bear arrived 10 minutes later. They move across to southwest campsite on Agnes and it soon showed up there too. 6/17 Bear in camp. No "noise" reported, no aggressive behavior reported, just looking for food pack. They yelled, I think threw rocks and it lumbered out of camp. They didn't lose any food. On 17th they put their food packs in the canoe, anchored it out in the lake. Worked for them, but often does not due to wind, storms, and the fact that bears can swim. |