Boundary Waters Quetico Forum :: Listening Point - General Discussion :: BWCA Violators on YouTube
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WhiteWolf |
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ShawnV |
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A1t2o |
Videographers that do this for attention should be treated differently. They are setting an example by cultivating a following and posting their own violations online. The FS setting an example through enforcement is an appropriate response. So is our conversation where we speak out against this type of behavior. |
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11842 |
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUJd-PfhIRc Anyone recognize the lakes or sites they were at? The canoes are from Seagull Outfitters so I assume they weren't too far from there. |
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tschendel |
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24kGold |
Terry |
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Mocha |
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Duckman |
I read the comments before I watched. Figured the bracing the log with the foot thing was a stretch. Nope, hard to think of a more potentially dangerous way to do it than that. I’d imagine chasing the eagle around with the drone is what will get them in trouble the most if anything is ever done. |
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jrlatt |
11842: "Downloaded the video last night assuming they'd remove it at Thanks for downloading the video. Just having a drone in the BWCA is a violation. I was upset with the fire and the size of the fire. Fire is a real and dangerous threat to the BWCA. These kinda of individuals should be banned from the BWCA. I sent a link of the thread to the chat on recreational.gov. Have a nice day |
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mychurchmyhome |
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yogi59weedr |
Simple fun gone bad. I doubt these young people will be drug over the coals as a few have suggested. They are about to receive an education that will last a life time. |
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mike13 |
mychurchmyhome: "Thank you 11842 and Mike13 for this information. I was able to share with the Forest Service, hopefully like last year, the group will be found and fined accordingly. This is a disgrace, they think they are just the shit. None of us want visitors like this in our BWCAW. " +1 I'm not real tech savvy so I'm glad 11842 was able to save video as potential evidence. Thanks all! |
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andym |
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LindenTree |
gravelroad: "The United States Fish and Wildlife Service is charged with protecting Bald Eagles, and they take it very seriously. I've sent the info on to them. Thankyou. It is called Harassing Wildlife, I worked for the US Fish and Wildlife Service for 15 years, they take this thing very seriously. There is a special USFWS agent who works out of Duluth. § 2.2 Wildlife protection. (a) The following are prohibited: (1) The taking of wildlife, except by authorized hunting and trapping activities conducted in accordance with paragraph (b) of this section. (2) The feeding, touching, teasing, frightening or intentional disturbing of wildlife nesting, breeding or other activities. |
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NotLight |
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Bromel |
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Duckman |
Bromel: " I can't think of anything that would get me going more than a drone buzzing around my campsite. " Match Box 20 being played on the lake so all four canoes can hear it is up there too! |
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Argo |
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casualbriday |
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tonecoughlin |
Gaidin53: "What an idiot with the gun! He dry fired with it pointed about 10 yards to the left of his buddies in a different canoe! I’d have kicked his ass if he had pointed a gun that close to me or family and then dry firing it! What was the point of that! Fricking idiot shouldn’t have a carry permit! It is not a toy to be played with like it’s a toy!!!! Yeah this is disgusting. Anyone catch the beer cans also? Thanks for downloading and uploading it. There will be more idiots out there! |
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Bo |
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Stumpy |
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gravelroad |
ShawnV: "A great example of what not to do on many fronts. It’s a great opportunity to show correction and move on. If you live anywhere within 40 miles of the Mississippi and it’s larger tribs or on a non-BWCA lake in MN/WI then you know Eagles are everywhere and around human activities on a regular basis and will certainly survive this encounter." FYI: “ How close is too close? Under federal law, it is illegal to pursue, shoot, shoot at, poison, wound, kill, capture, trap, collect, destroy, molest or disturb eagles – including getting too close. During breeding season, we recommend that any activities that could disturb a breeding pair be kept at least 660 feet away from an active eagle nest. This extends to waterways as well. Motorized boats and other vehicles should follow the same distancing recommendations and be mindful of nesting pairs. Please note that it is also illegal to trail or pace an eagle with a drone while the eagle is in flight. “Legal penalties Not only can people potentially cause an eagle pair to abandon an active nest for the breeding season, they can lose expensive equipment to a defensive eagle attack. These actions can result in expensive penalties under multiple federal, state and tribal laws. Under the Bald and Golden Eagle Protection Act, the first criminal offense is a misdemeanor with a maximum penalty of one year in prison and a $100,000 fine for an individual or a $200,000 fine for an organization. The second offense becomes a felony, with a maximum penalty of two years in prison and a $250,000 fine for an individual or a $500,000 fine for an organization. The act also provides for maximum civil penalties of $5,000 for each violation.” Keeping bald eagles and other wildlife safe from drones |
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Bromel |
gravelroad: "ShawnV: "Under the Bald and Golden Eagle Protection Act, the first criminal offense is a misdemeanor with a maximum penalty of one year in prison and a $100,000 fine for an individual " If the kid who chased the eagle with the drone goes to prison for one year, I will be OK with that. |
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timatkn |
Stumpy: "I find the over the top outrage more bothersome, than what these guys actually did out there. I totally see your side—what you are trying to say… I think part of it is people are tired of running into what idiots have done up there and now…here is evidence of some idiots…sort of a modern day lynching (exaggerating I know)…it is a symptom of what many of us are tired of today. Just blatant disregard of authority/rules. People (of all ages) feel like they can just follow the rules they agree with. Just tired of it and this group got caught red handed because they bragged online. BUT…the HUGE fire in dry conditions, the pointing the gun at another canoe are un acceptable and are worthy of outrage. I am gonna agree to disagree there. I still respect the point you are trying to make though. T |
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PeaceFrog |
timatkn: "Stumpy: "I find the over the top outrage more bothersome, than what these guys actually did out there. |
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PeaceFrog |
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tumblehome |
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Savage Voyageur |
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halvorsonchristopher |
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Northland |
ShawnV: "A great example of what not to do on many fronts. It’s a great opportunity to show correction and move on. If you live anywhere within 40 miles of the Mississippi and it’s larger tribs or on a non-BWCA lake in MN/WI then you know Eagles are everywhere and around human activities on a regular basis and will certainly survive this encounter." I don't think it's about whether the eagle will survive the encounter or not. It's the fact that the law stipulates that you can't do what this person did. |
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Lionabe |
Northland: "ShawnV: "A great example of what not to do on many fronts. It’s a great opportunity to show correction and move on. If you live anywhere within 40 miles of the Mississippi and it’s larger tribs or on a non-BWCA lake in MN/WI then you know Eagles are everywhere and around human activities on a regular basis and will certainly survive this encounter." I agree. While my concern for the wildlife remains, this is a matter of the law! |
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LindenTree |
"In June 2020, during the COVID-19 pandemic, some 3,000 elegant tern eggs were abandoned at a Southern California nesting island after a drone crashed and scared off the birds. The drones were flown illegally over the Bolsa Chica Ecological Reserve in Huntington Beach in May and one of them went down in the wetlands, The Orange County Register reports. Fearing an attack from a predator, several thousand terns abandoned their ground nests. Now, during the month when the white birds would be overseeing the eggs as they begin to hatch, the sand is littered with egg shells. It’s one of the largest-scale abandonment of eggs ever." “There was a recent video that showed an eagle attacking a drone. And a lot of the social media reaction made it like the eagle defeated the drone. That eagle was probably hurt bad or even killed by that encounter. I see an eagle anywhere in the vicinity, the drone is coming down, even if it means I lose data.” Link. How drones scare wildlife. |
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Bromel |
Lionabe: "Northland: "ShawnV: "A great example of what not to do on many fronts. It’s a great opportunity to show correction and move on. If you live anywhere within 40 miles of the Mississippi and it’s larger tribs or on a non-BWCA lake in MN/WI then you know Eagles are everywhere and around human activities on a regular basis and will certainly survive this encounter." I agree with Northland and Lionbabe 100%. The law is the law and it should be followed. Your opinion that some of us are overly "outraged" doesn't really matter. If visitors to the Boundary Waters break the law, they should be punished according to the law. The example of the 3,000 term eggs being abandoned due to a drone crash is a great example of how drones can affect wildlife in ways that we couldn't imagine. There are reasons behind the wildlife harassment laws. |
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Zulu |
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cyclones30 |
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Speckled |
My thoughts: Wealthy kid - who cares, irrelevant to the discussion. Harassing the Eagle - ya, not really, at least not to a degree that most of us are not already guilty of. I've approached all kinds of wildlife in an effort to get a better pic and had it fly, bound or run away. I'd bet the majority here have as well. So the eagle flew away - they fly every day. Drone - yep against the rules, mail them a ticket and move on... not lifetime ban worthy in my opinion and certainly not jail worthy. Throwing rocks at a dead tree or off a cliff - oh well, is there a rule against it? I'm not aware if there is... I don't think so. If it's not putting anyone in immediate danger or being disruptive to others, then carry on. Bonfire outside of the fire grate - yep, not their best move considering the drought and certainly against the rules... again mail them a ticket and move on. I, for one, am guilty of much stupider things (not in the BW) at that age. Also guilty of breaking a few rules on our first few trips, looking back nothing damaging in my opinion, but as time went on, we did further educate ourselves and become better BW trip goers. |
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Unas10 |
Stumpy: "I find the over the top outrage more bothersome, than what these guys actually did out there. Yep. |
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nctry |
Unas10: "Stumpy: "I find the over the top outrage more bothersome, than what these guys actually did out there. I’ve tried to convey that but couldn’t find the right words so I deleted. The eagle thing alone I don’t see them “being chased”. If that’s the case every car that goes by a roadkill with an eagle flying off should go to jail. Yeah the drone... and a couple fires, mainly the tree. But really their camps were clean and organized. So what if they had a hatchet and a machete... the gun thing? Eh... I don’t advocate needing a gun. But unless I wasn’t watching close enough I don’t think there’s evidence of wrongdoing ( I mean legally). Dragging loaded canoes? Really didn’t see anything worthy of bashing to this extent. I agree that there were violations... and good for you to report them if that makes you feel high and mighty. But there are definitely bigger things to be concerned about. I’m sure they realize now their screwups. Let it rest! |
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Bromel |
Stumpy: "I find the over the top outrage more bothersome, than what these guys actually did out there. I don't think it is outrageous to expect people to follow the laws and respect the wilderness. That's why we all have enacted such laws. I don't feel outraged by their activity. |
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mjmkjun |
billconner: "Its now not viewable." Figures. It wasn't too smart of them to make it public in the first place. |
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podgeo |
PeaceFrog: "Total disregard and wreckless. Makes me sick to watch them. No PFD being worn" I did not see the the video ...but you talk of not wearing a PFD I have seen lots of pictures that people have posted on here where they are not wearing life jackets. |
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timatkn |
What were all the violations? Drones are illegal in the BWCAW, large fire outside the fire grate, harassing wildlife…those are from the comments here. T |
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mike13 |
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUJd-PfhIRc "camping with the boys " by Its Max Camping with the boys |
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Savage Voyageur |
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airmorse |
mike13: "Just watched this YouTube video and lost count of the number of USFS violations they committed. Hope the forest service tracks them down and fines the crap out of them. Last year the forest Service was shown a YouTube video of a group of violators, i believe the video was used against them. I hope the same happens with this group. |
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Stumpy |
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PeaceFrog |
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HowardSprague |
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billconner |
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schweady |
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deerfoot |
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airmorse |
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Bromel |
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Pinetree |
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Gaidin53 |
The fire has me ticked off beyond speech! Especially right now when I’m praying I get to go this year and already had to change my entry point due to the forest fires. Out of the fire grate not even near a fire grate and then the fricking size of it! Yeah the hatchet or axe was pretty special! Drones are banned and then disturbing the eagles. I’m surprised they got through the trip without any major injuries requiring an evacuation with the stupid stuff they were doing. Glad it got reported and glad somebody downloaded it and gave it to the forest service. Ryan |
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Stumpy |
I've thrown my share of rocks in the bwca. Had a close friend shock me pulling out a speaker thing with loud music on Fourtown Lake (I was pissed). I've had some good sized fires in the fire pit (not during a fire ban). I've had a gun in the bwca. All that said.... I would not want to travel with these goofs..... But I have to say, I've seen WAY worse stuff out there. Piles of garbage... Campsites destroyed.... even death, due to ignorance. I'd go lenient on them, and let their embarrassment do the trick. |
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Northland |
11842: "Downloaded the video last night assuming they'd remove it at some point. Uploaded a copy of the video at the link below. If there's anything I missed in the timestamps, let me know and I'll add it. Thanks for saving the video. Does anyone recall the screen name of the YouTube account? |
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gopher2307 |
Log splitting with a fiskar hatchet, while standing, using the foot as a backstop was awesome. Dumping their canoe on flat water, and then falling off the shoreline rock, also priceless. Waste of 10 minutes aside from those couple of high notes. |
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cowdoc |
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mjmkjun |
Stumpy: "They're guilty of bad footwear and poor paddling. " After actually watching the video I agree with Stumpy. |
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PeaceFrog |
Stumpy: "I've paddled or motored up on Eagles with camera or camcorder and ended up chasing them away.... kind of the same thing as in their video. I agree with letting some embarrassment be part of their education. However, I feel that some financial penalties should be assessed to help them understand how serious this is. The guy flashing his sidearm all the time should not be allowed to carry. Ever! If he has a CCW, it should be revoked. |
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timatkn |
Since it was posted on YouTube and edited I obviously knew nothing bad happened but this group is an accident waiting to happen. 1. They got really close to the cliff, with part of it giving away 2. Standing in the canoe, finally tipped it then dragging it to shore the guy thought he broke his ankle, fell back with his ankle wedged in rocks 3. The hatchet… 4. The guy with the gun…the showing it several times was weird…as a gun owner I have worries and wonder about mental capacity…pointing it behind one of the canoes on video and dry firing? Very risky IMHO. 5. HUGE fire, lighting the cross logs on fire and running under neath them… Yep give them a couple more trips and we will hear about a major injury. I hope some embarrassment helps them out before they get hurt. T |
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gravelroad |
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Bromel |
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Jaywalker |
Pinetree: "Some of their pictures look like they had a drone." They did. And thanks to them filming the drone flying over them in the campsite and canoes, you can pick out which one was operating it. |
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Porkeater |
airmorse: "I'm guessing that Seagull Outfitters has already been notified?" I don't know what a cooperator's obligation is to the Forest Service when they become aware of violations by their customers, but I sure hope they do the right thing here. |
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jillpine |
PeaceFrog: "Stumpy: "I've paddled or motored up on Eagles with camera or camcorder and ended up chasing them away.... kind of the same thing as in their video. Unless wealthy, it is almost certain financial penalty will carry an impact. Humiliation and embarrassment - guesswork. I'm certain it's also a unisex consideration for some, but think of these "goofs" camping near your wife, sister, mother, girlfriend, partner, aunt, daughter on her solo trip, especially when their Maker's Mark starts flowing. It progresses pretty quickly from annoying to threatening. |
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Pinetree |
Bromel: "Here is the tip line for reporting suspicious or illegal activity within the Superior National forest. " This should be handed out when getting a permit |
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egknuti |
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Mike5914 |
tschendel: "I saw the video and the group was on, Seagull, Alpine and Ogish for sure. I just came back from there and I bet with a bit more research, they can easily identified. Deb Mark would be really disappointed with her equipment being used for this type of behavior. It's no wonder that chipmunks and other wildlife are often nuisances, that humans have conditioned. It's very disappointed to watch this. I personally picked up dozens of pieces of fishing equipment and garbage on my Ogish campsite this past week. It's embarrassing for me, a 13 time BWCA guest, to see this type of use. " If this video was from early June of this year, wonder if these were the people who were operating a drone on east end of Alpine....and they snuck up right by my boat with my son then my dad's boat....then flew way up and south out of view. There were also a few nights we heard gunshots. Fairly close to our site as well. Those shots came from south of the Alpine/Seagull portage, probably north of Jasper Falls. |
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gravelroad |
Mike5914: "tschendel: "I saw the video and the group was on, Seagull, Alpine and Ogish for sure. I just came back from there and I bet with a bit more research, they can easily identified. Deb Mark would be really disappointed with her equipment being used for this type of behavior. It's no wonder that chipmunks and other wildlife are often nuisances, that humans have conditioned. It's very disappointed to watch this. I personally picked up dozens of pieces of fishing equipment and garbage on my Ogish campsite this past week. It's embarrassing for me, a 13 time BWCA guest, to see this type of use. " Pretty likely, given dates gleaned elsewhere. |
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sns |
Gaidin53: "What an idiot with the gun! He dry fired with it pointed about 10 yards to the left of his buddies in a different canoe! I’d have kicked his ass if he had pointed a gun that close to me or family and then dry firing it! What was the point of that! Fricking idiot shouldn’t have a carry permit! It is not a toy to be played with like it’s a toy!!!!" I own firearms and hunt a lot. Took firearms safety when young, took it again with my son recently. Pretty sure this would be an automatic fail by the Safety Instructor - sighting down your weapon with people downrange...good grief. |
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Kiporby |
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Bromel |
Kiporby: "This is most certainly Alpine Lake, campsite 541. I'm confident Deb at Seagull is fully aware of the situation and the Forest Service is on the case." Does anyone know for sure if Seagull Outfitters is aware of this? Or is it just speculation? |
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dschult2 |
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11842 |
gravelroad: "Mike5914: "tschendel: "I saw the video and the group was on, Seagull, Alpine and Ogish for sure. I just came back from there and I bet with a bit more research, they can easily identified. Deb Mark would be really disappointed with her equipment being used for this type of behavior. It's no wonder that chipmunks and other wildlife are often nuisances, that humans have conditioned. It's very disappointed to watch this. I personally picked up dozens of pieces of fishing equipment and garbage on my Ogish campsite this past week. It's embarrassing for me, a 13 time BWCA guest, to see this type of use. " Yeah, he posted a video reviewing a hammock on May 30 with a comment about going camping in a few days. I think that was definitely them. jillpine: "PeaceFrog: "Stumpy: "I've paddled or motored up on Eagles with camera or camcorder and ended up chasing them away.... kind of the same thing as in their video. The hammock review I just mentioned was filmed at his dad's $6+ million house. Unfortunately I don't think financial penalties will impact their behavior one bit. |
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billconner |
Bromel: "Here is the tip line for reporting suspicious or illegal activity within the Superior National forest. " So, I'm not really savvy on the new satellite communicators but could you contact USFS tip line with one? Could be reason to upgrade. |
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yogi59weedr |
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WHendrix |
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cyclones30 |
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podgeo |
Pinetree: "Bromel: "Here is the tip line for reporting suspicious or illegal activity within the Superior National forest. " Maybe they should require photos of trip leader and alternate leader.... for the records |
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BigCurrent |
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Duckman |
yogi59weedr: "They should be allowed ,but they need a better education on what the Boundary Water is." I agree with this. They wanted a backcountry "spring break" style trip. There's a time and a place for that, most of us have been in that frame of mind at some point in our lives. It's a lot like the people who use the BDUB for an Alone style bushcraft playground. It's just not the place for that. So better education is probably the right answer. I'd imagine everyone in that video is aware of this thread and hopefully figuring out the mistakes they made. Hopefully one or two of them are actually contrite over the whole thing. |
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PeaceFrog |
Duckman: "yogi59weedr: "They should be allowed ,but they need a better education on what the Boundary Water is." I'm really challenged by this one. Stumpy and others have valid points for them being allowed. However, should they continue to be allowed?? I just struggle with feeling like most of the individuals would truly grasp what many of us are saying and feel about BW; solely based on the behavior that was recorded. I believe I did pick up on one individual in the video express concern about the size of the fire they had up on the rock above camp. Maybe at least he could be someone that could help educate his buddies. I do hope there is some follow-up from USFS on this in some fashion. Grace and Mercy goes a long way but Humility is the key in accepting it. |
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Northwoodsman |
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bretthexum |
People make dumb decisions and (hopefully) learn from them. Was it ignorance, stupidity, or just plain not giving a crap? Probably all of the above. A nice stiff fine will probably teach them not to do this nonsense again. |
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Captn Tony |
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gotwins |
Stumpy: "They're guilty of bad footwear and poor paddling. " Also, Jordan was #23, not #9. |
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airmorse |
While not against the rules, at one point in the video one of them was splitting wood and using his foot as a brace. I was waiting for the hatchet to impact his foot and cut it off. And the use of a drone was also not cool, especially chasing a bald eagle. These people are just another example of humans who should not be allowed to breed. |
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Savage Voyageur |
billconner: "Its now not viewable." You didn’t miss much good with this video. Chopping wood while holding the log with his foot. Chasing a Bald Eagle with a drone. Brandishing a weapon like a gangster. Fires outside of a grate. Probably more but I had to shut it off. |
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whyzata |
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TrailZen |
tschendel: "It's embarrassing for me, a 13 time BWCA guest, to see this type of use. " I suspect most of us on BWCA.com consider ourselves "guests" when we visit canoe country, and that the feeling of being welcomed to the area (as opposed to feeling entitled to visit) makes us feel embarrassed when we see callous displays such as the early portion of the video contained. I couldn't watch it all--just not interested in seeing idiocy and disrespect on display. TZ |
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gravelroad |
In case he takes umbrage at this development, the twerp with the drone and the pistol would do well to keep it holstered. His face is already known to me now. 'Nuff said. |
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sns |
The 4+ incidents (that we know of) where they harass eagles are all terrible. As is their taste in music. Winners of the Shitshow Olympics. |
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TylerJ |
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bretthexum |
Northwoodsman: "A fine may not have an impact, but community service might. Portage maintenance, latrine moving, campsite cleanup, fire grate replacement, etc. Three benefits - 1) hopefully they will learn a lesson and learn about rules, 2) hopefully they will get educated and gain respect for nature, 3) it would provide some much needed maintenance assistance." Perfect! Some latrine digging would definitely make them think twice about it! |
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Kiporby |
Bromel: "Kiporby: "This is most certainly Alpine Lake, campsite 541. I'm confident Deb at Seagull is fully aware of the situation and the Forest Service is on the case." I can assure you it is not speculation Bromel. :) I have alot of contacts up their including my daughter who currently is working there this summer. |
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CityFisher74 |
cyclones30: "Jeez....heck of a guy to trip with. Let me fly my drone over you while you've flipped your canoe and are struggling to grab your stuff that's floating around. Gotta get that content....not help your friends" He's a rich silver spoon punk. These aren't his friends. At best they're frat brothers. Most likely they're just grifting and enjoy Daddy's house in the summer time. |
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cyclones30 |
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Pinetree |
cyclones30: "Very true....and also why a fine probably won't hurt him at all. Needs to be service as mentioned before....with no gopro allowed " Most States if crime is high enough, hunting and fishing license are suspended and many States have agreements that will carry over to other states. Thus he cold be blocked out from activities from many states. |
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A1t2o |
cyclones30: "Very true....and also why a fine probably won't hurt him at all. Needs to be service as mentioned before....with no gopro allowed " I don't know about the gopro. It might be a good punishment that is relevant to the nature of the crime. People are acting this way to establish a certain online reputation. Having the FS show people exactly what that type of behavior gets you would probably be a pretty effective deterrent and specifically address those types of people that otherwise just wouldn't get it. |
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cowdoc |
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airmorse |
cowdoc: "They don't want to be educated. Too important, too arrogant, rules are meant for other people. Fine the crap out of them just so you feel a little better and put some money towards helping heal the wounds." +1 |
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northallen |
The large fire and gun were the egregious/creepy aspects of the video. Mostly just a group I'd try to distance from. Ironic that we are casting stones and lighting the torches... |
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mjmkjun |
northallen: "Young and dumb. Looks like a few first timers. I am sure they learned a lot about camping on that trip. :-) |
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billconner |
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schweady |
The egregious nature of the multiple violations committed by these morons warrants a far greater barrage of penalties... banishment, monetary fines, jail time, hard labor, public shaming, tar and feathers... whatever else they can think of. And, send me the drone footage of each of the above being handed down. |
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Stumpy |
northallen: "Young and dumb. Looks like a few first timers. I am sure they learned a lot about camping on that trip. Agree |
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johndku |
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