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Boundary Waters Quetico Forum :: Listening Point - General Discussion :: 2022 bear container rules
 
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yellowcanoe
11/30/2021 01:49PM
  
Mike I was just curious and confused. And RBW wasn't very helpful. Its a long way to the BWCA for me and in my old age any trip isn't going to be a long one but I don't want to buy stuff I don't need.
 
tumblehome
11/30/2021 01:55PM
  
bobbernumber3: "I mis-read the subject... thought this was 2022 beer container rules!"


Oh gawd. Funny!
 
tumblehome
11/30/2021 02:03PM
  
Per the USFS order.


A closed vehicle does not necessarily mean a closed automobile. It could be a suitcase.
Tom
 
MikeinMpls
11/30/2021 01:05PM
  
yellowcanoe: "The requirements have been amended as of Aug 2021



Pliant containers are now allowed.



I can jump on the blue barrel from a foot and have no damag
amended requirements for food storage "


This is what I was looking for. As I read it, this isn't much different from a "best practices" perspective: either properly hang your food or use a bear container. The exception is that it is now a rule rather than a recommendation.


I'm fine with this. I had no intention of purchasing a bear barrel or similar bear-resistant container.


Thanks Yellowcanoe


Mike
 
Northwoodsman
03/10/2022 10:22AM
  
yogi59weedr: "My Yeti says bear resistant. Am I good?"


Yogi, the bears have already figured out that they don't want to drag around one of those heavy things loaded with ice and food either. Haha, just kidding. I have one and I love it. But I'm a freeze-dried guy when it comes to canoe camping. I'm too old and out of shape to carry any extra weight that I don't absolutely have to.
 
Jaywalker
11/25/2021 03:55PM
  
yogi59weedr: "My Yeti says bear resistant. Am I good?"


I’d say you are fine, Yogi. The way I read the rules, it did not specify products but I think your Yeti meets the standard for rigid - especially since it passed the IGBC evaluation.
 
andym
11/25/2021 05:31PM
  
Note that non-rigid bear-resistant containers such as Ursacks are allowed.


The Yetis are certified if used with a lock.
 
Ausable
11/25/2021 11:02AM
  
Yes, I anticipate that the rule will become permanent. Either hang the food high or store it in an approved bear-resistant container.
 
Jaywalker
11/25/2021 03:50PM
  
My speculation: I can’t guess about whether the new temporary rules will become permanent or not, but so long as there are a fair number of bears out there who have learned to target food near humans I’d expect the rules to continue. In thinking about 2022, I’m assuming the rules will stand.



 
MikeinMpls
11/26/2021 08:01AM
  
So, to be clear: some "resistant" container is required? Agreeing to hang food properly (the 10 foot up, 10 foot out method) is not sufficient?

I know this topic was covered at length over the summer.

Mike
 
Jaywalker
11/26/2021 08:32AM
  
MikeinMpls: "So, to be clear: some "resistant" container is required? Agreeing to hang food properly (the 10 foot up, 10 foot out method) is not sufficient?

I know this topic was covered at length over the summer.

Mike"
No, hanging is still acceptable, if properly done. The SNF a is basically dis-allowing the traditional blue barrel (like Harmony), non-certified coolers or containers (dog food containers, plastic buckets with gamma lids, etc), bad hanging (to low or next to tree), and stashing.

Here is the order.
 
Ausable
11/26/2021 10:32AM
  
Jaywalker: "yogi59weedr: "My Yeti says bear resistant. Am I good?"


I’d say you are fine, Yogi. The way I read the rules, it did not specify products but I think your Yeti meets the standard for rigid - especially since it passed the IGBC evaluation. "


In early August, I exchanged email with Luke Laaveg in the supervisor's office of the Superior Nat'l Forest. I did so to determine which bear-resistant containers satisfied the 200 ft-lb requirement of the FS. This was just before the FS published the revised order removing the "solid, non-pliable" requirement. Anyway, he wrote, "The ‘solid, non-pliable’ products listed within the IGBC’s certified bear-resistant products list would be your best resource."


So at this point we can say that anything on the IGBC certified list is OK.
 
MikeinMpls
11/26/2021 12:40PM
  
Ausable: "Jaywalker: "yogi59weedr: "My Yeti says bear resistant. Am I good?"



I’d say you are fine, Yogi. The way I read the rules, it did not specify products but I think your Yeti meets the standard for rigid - especially since it passed the IGBC evaluation. "



In early August, I exchanged email with Luke Laaveg in the supervisor's office of the Superior Nat'l Forest. I did so to determine which bear-resistant containers satisfied the 200 ft-lb requirement of the FS. This was just before the FS published the revised order removing the "solid, non-pliable" requirement. Anyway, he wrote, "The ‘solid, non-pliable’ products listed within the IGBC’s certified bear-resistant products list would be your best resource."



So at this point we can say that anything on the IGBC certified list is OK."


OK. Thanks to everyone. I honestly don't know what I'm going to do. I've managed to do 50+ trips since 1978 without a bear stealing my food doing things the way I've been doing them. Seems a little late to fix what ain't broken in my system.


Mike
 
HowardSprague
11/28/2021 07:29PM
  
Ausable: "Yes, I anticipate that the rule will become permanent. Either hang the food high or store it in an approved bear-resistant container."


Well, that would - as they say - suck the big one.
I've had a Garcia barrel and a Bear Vault for awhile, intended as temporary or short trip measures. According to what I could afford at my budgetary pace, a couple years ago I purchased the CCS Barrel Pack and last year finally bought the blue 60l barrel from Canoecopia, finally getting to the food gear point I wanted.
What will all the outfitters do with their dozens of blue barrels?


I anticipate it will be temporary or at least move to the "look the other way" category.

 
bobbernumber3
11/28/2021 08:30AM
  
I mis-read the subject... thought this was 2022 beer container rules!
 
Jaywalker
11/28/2021 04:53PM
  
bobbernumber3: "I mis-read the subject... thought this was 2022 beer container rules!"The rules are the same for both, but for beer I think Ursacks are a poor choice.
 
Cc26
03/10/2022 08:07AM
  
So, basically it has to be hung at all times - unless you are actively preparing or eating - unless it is stored in a BV container or ursack? Then it can be sitting around? I get it, but it seems a little silly to me.
 
Northwoodsman
03/10/2022 10:11AM
  
The blue barrels are still allowed, they just have to be hung. That's what I do anyways. The reason that I use a blue barrel over a standard pack to carry food is so that when it is sitting around camp or hung at night that my food stays dry and the little critters do not get into it. I also appreciate the fact that while paddling and portaging that the more delicate items don't get crushed or smashed. I generally base camp at only one or two spots on a trip so once a hanging system is established it's not difficult to hoist the barrel up at night or when I leave camp during the day. When I do plan a trip where I move a lot hanging is a pain so I use my Bear Vaults.


The outfitters that have the blue barrels don't have to get rid of them, they just need to supply hanging rigs and train people how to use them.
 
gravelroad
11/24/2021 08:53PM
  
If you read between the lines in this justification for the Forest-wide 2021 order, I think it’s pretty obvious where this is headed, perhaps especially after the feds reversed their position on Ursacks and the like:


” This year, there are several areas with reoccurring bear sightings and interactions on the Forest. Areas include Rose Lake, Duncan Lake and Daniel Lake on the Gunflint Ranger District; the Moose Lake Chain and several campgrounds including Birch Lake, Fall Lake and Fenske Lake on the Kawishiwi Ranger District; and Agnes Lake on the La Croix District.”


Superior National Forest Announces Food Storage Order to Protect Both Visitors and Bears
 
schweady
11/28/2021 07:40PM
  
Jaywalker: "bobbernumber3: "I mis-read the subject... thought this was 2022 beer container rules!"The rules are the same for both, but for beer I think Ursacks are a poor choice. "
The BearVault isn't much better; we found that we could empty 15 crowlers of beer into our BV500, but at a little over 27 pounds, it was a bit awkward to portage... :-)

 
ScottL
11/29/2021 08:27AM
  
schweady: "Jaywalker: "bobbernumber3: "I mis-read the subject... thought this was 2022 beer container rules!"The rules are the same for both, but for beer I think Ursacks are a poor choice. "
The BearVault isn't much better; we found that we could empty 15 crowlers of beer into our BV500, but at a little over 27 pounds, it was a bit awkward to portage... :-)
"


That just means that you do some serious hydrating at the beginning of the portage and then you can tell if the portage is long or short by whether you can get to the other side without stopping along the way for a bathroom break!

 
yellowcanoe
11/29/2021 02:07PM
  
HowardSprague: "Ausable: "Yes, I anticipate that the rule will become permanent. Either hang the food high or store it in an approved bear-resistant container."



Well, that would - as they say - suck the big one.
I've had a Garcia barrel and a Bear Vault for awhile, intended as temporary or short trip measures. According to what I could afford at my budgetary pace, a couple years ago I purchased the CCS Barrel Pack and last year finally bought the blue 60l barrel from Canoecopia, finally getting to the food gear point I wanted.
What will all the outfitters do with their dozens of blue barrels?



I anticipate it will be temporary or at least move to the "look the other way" category.
"


I emailed Recreational Barrel Works with the FS requirement and asked them if their bue barrels passed the test.. They said they do no testing and contact the Forest Service.. Sheesh what a run around. I got a promotional email citing the use in the wilderness for years and the caveat it was not bear proof ( which I told them upfront I knew..). But never a direct answer.


Has anyone talked to an outfitter who rents them to their clients?
 
andym
11/29/2021 05:23PM
  
Jaywalker: "bobbernumber3: "I mis-read the subject... thought this was 2022 beer container rules!"The rules are the same for both, but for beer I think Ursacks are a poor choice. "


Not sure that is quite true that the rules are the same. The beer goes inside the container. The bear goes outside of it. At least, that's the hope.
 
yellowcanoe
11/29/2021 06:30PM
  
The requirements have been amended as of Aug 2021


Pliant containers are now allowed.


I can jump on the blue barrel from a foot and have no damag
amended requirements for food storage
 
Ausable
11/29/2021 07:49PM
  
I found an interesting USFS document from 2006. The USFS tried to develop bear-resistant containers for rafters. The document has pictures of 2 different testing machines (hint: a 200-lb person jumping on a container from a height of 1 foot doesn't qualify as an approved test).


Bear-Resistant Containers for Rafters
 
MikeinMpls
11/24/2021 12:13PM
  
Admittedly I haven't kept up with the bear container rules. The 2021 USFS BWCA rule came out after my trip. Are people anticipating this will remain in place for 2022, and/or become a permanent rule for the BWCA, or has this already been determined?

Mike
 
boonie
11/24/2021 02:24PM
  
Mike, the Order says it will remain in effect until terminated . . . and I have not heard anything about terminating it. I'm planning on it remaining in effect, but it doesn't really affect me much.
 
yogi59weedr
11/25/2021 03:35PM
  
My Yeti says bear resistant. Am I good?