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Boundary Waters Quetico Forum :: Listening Point - General Discussion :: BWCAW crowds
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| Author | Message Text | ||
| Frenchy19 |
The place get real crowded from mid June to end-of-August. |
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| Captn Tony |
By the way, you can find solitude in National Parks but it takes a little effort and you have to hike the less popular trails. |
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| missmolly |
arctic: "scat: "If you are going to get all technical about a word, it’s really not a wilderness area, if you want to be real about it. The first definition by Merriam-Webster is… Arctic, I miss you! |
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| SummerSkin |
bobbernumber3: "About 180,000 people per year visit the park." What park? |
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| HWMinngrl |
As another person has already said, the BWCA is not a park at all, but a wilderness area. There are no welcome centers, bathrooms, trail centers, gift shops, etc. it is very rugged and all about getting out into the wilderness. Perhaps you are thinking of Voyageurs National Park in Minnesota? That is a national park that is near/next to (west) of the Boundary Waters. I’ve never been there so I’m not sure how crowded it gets. |
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| Curious |
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| LindenTree |
The BWCAW/Boundary Waters is not a park. It is a wilderness area within the boundaries of the Superior National Forest. OK rant over. To the OP, compared to National Parks like Yellowstone, Yosemite or others, the BWCAW wilderness area is way less crowded. I am a retired Ranger who has worked for the Superior National Forest as well as three National Parks. Visiting the Boundary Waters Wilderness area. |
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| bobbernumber3 |
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| nooneuno |
Things I would do before ever visiting another national park: play frisbee at the local dog park all day.. barefoot, get a second vasectomy, get a third hernia operation. The amount of people was beyond my comprehension, left Rocky Mountain after about 1 hour every trailhead and pull off area was assholes to elbows, never even got out of the van. We saw some truly great and memorable places all of them outside the parks. The BWCA is not like other places for one basic reason, it takes effort to get there and that automatically eliminates 99 percent of the population from ever visiting. |
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| Speckled |
nooneuno: "Things I would do before ever visiting another national park: play frisbee at the local dog park all day.. barefoot, get a second vasectomy, get a third hernia operation. The amount of people was beyond my comprehension, left Rocky Mountain after about 1 hour every trailhead and pull off area was assholes to elbows, never even got out of the van. We saw some truly great and memorable places all of them outside the parks. The BWCA is not like other places for one basic reason, it takes effort to get there and that automatically eliminates 99 percent of the population from ever visiting." Made me chuckle for sure. Vasectomy left me with the "Kicked in the nuts" feeling in my lower abdomen for a year. I wonder what the increase in visitorship (is that a word?) has been since Covid. I've been to all the places you listed pre-covid and they weren't busy. Relatively speaking we're seeing the same thing in the BW. Permits are hard to get, portages are crowded, campsites are full. I wonder if there will be additional permit reductions or any other management changes in the years to come if they continue to experiance the issues of the last two years. |
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| schweady |
Anyone been following the opening of the new drive-in campground at Split Rock Lighthouse State Park? Shipwreck Creek Campground contains 45 sites, all with electric service, in a park that previously only offered cart-in sites. Yesterday, reservations opened for arrival dates June 1 - August 3. In the first 2.5 hours, 91.5% of the dates available were reserved. Today, after reservations had been offered for just a little over 24 hours, 96.5% were taken and there were no sites available for 2 consecutive nights. |
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| timatkn |
It can be busy, but nothing like a National park. For example Yellowstone has 4-5 million per year (almost 30x more people) compared the BWCA and there a system in place to disperse. If you are going to canoe a few minutes and set up camp. It will be busy. If ya travel, I almost always have days where I barely see anyone. Your other option is Quetico. Same size area about 90% less use than the BWCA. Quetico is a “Park” though:) they manage it “wilderness like” but can seem more like a wilderness due to less people. T |
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| jamdemos |
nooneuno: " Sounds like you were doing everything that everyone else at those parks was trying to do, drive to a trailhead and go on a day hike. To truly experience these parks you need to get into the interior of them. They are not nearly as crowded as everyone thinks, just need to stop visiting them like a gift shop. Get in there like you would the BWCA, get into the backcounty and they can be enjoyed away from the crowds. |
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| nooneuno |
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| jamdemos |
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| arctic |
scat: "If you are going to get all technical about a word, it’s really not a wilderness area, if you want to be real about it. The first definition by Merriam-Webster is… Native Americans had no name for wilderness. It was just "home". Definition #2 above reflects that there is no wilderness left on Earth, as everything has been impacted by Man. |
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| Savage Voyageur |
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| Minnesotian |
missmolly: "jamdemos: "nooneuno: " That was my experience at Grand Teton National Park in September. Got to hike the Teton Crest Trail and after a mile from the parking lot and past the last scenic overlook, no one. |
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| missmolly |
jamdemos: "nooneuno: " That's my experience too. Hike a mile from the road and it's just you and the 'yotes. |
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| bobbernumber3 |
SummerSkin: "bobbernumber3: "About 180,000 people per year visit the park." Bwcaw |
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| scottiebaldwin |
The BWCAW is a "park." It's also the "BWCA," the "B'Dub," and whatever anyone else wants to call it. Stop gatekeeping what people want to call it. That's just a trite assertion of dominance and an attempt at being hierarchically dictatorial. Yuk. I've never heard anyone say, "I'm going up into the Wilderness next week" and mean the BWCA. Okay, now my rant is over, sorry. I have respect for all members here. In all seriousness, it does sort of feel like this year things are loosening up and people will be into other things and not necessarily all be running to the BWCA. That will make the permit reduction all the sweeter. I agree with an earlier post that says that traveling any real distance should provide pretty good solitude this year. My two cents. "You may fire when ready." -Grand Moff Tarkin |
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| Curious |
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| Blatz |
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| KarlBAndersen1 |
bobbernumber3: "SummerSkin: "bobbernumber3: "About 180,000 people per year visit the park." But.........it's not a park. |
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| timatkn |
scottiebaldwin: "Okay, I'm going to humbly weigh-in here... “ Stop gatekeeping what people want to call it. That's just a trite assertion of dominance and an attempt at being hierarchically dictatorial.” That seems a little over the top…I am sorry this is so triggering to you, causing you to use micro-aggression against people trying to use the proper noun. (I am trying to be funny so don’t come up on stage and slap me) I feel like you extrapolated one comment into multiple. No one on here said BWCA, B dub, or other names were wrong—None of those are “park” BTW. Heck it’s ‘Merica…you can call it what you want…Just like people can say technically it’s not a Park :) Heck when I was a rookie I said Park too…but when I said that my outfitter corrected me, explained the differences and the rules I needed to follow. I can still call it that, won’t change anything for me now so in the scheme of things not a HUGE deal…it’s just technically wrong—nothing wrong with people pointing that out either. “Park” and wilderness have very different rules. Such as reserving sites, sharing sites, equipment use, management, mode of travel, etiquette approaching others, use of Bushcraft…etc…there has been an influx of people into the BWCAW treating it like a “park”… Perhaps words matter??? It’s possible? I think we can all agree it really isn’t that big of a deal. I doubt anyone is mad about it either way…bobbernumber3’s post made me LOL as an example. I think both sides just come off on the internet/written word as more upset or condescending than it really is meant. I was just trying to be funny at the start so hopefully no hard feelings. T |
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| bruleman |
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| scat |
- A tract or region uncultivated or uninhabited by human beings. 2nd - An area undisturbed by human activity together with its natural life community. 3rd - An empty or pathless area or region. Just sayin. It’s a nice thought, but none of the above actually can be said of the BDub. There are plenty of people around to share or avoid the experience with or from. It’s a great place to canoe, camp and fish, but calling it a wilderness area might be a stretch. |
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| missmolly |
timatkn: "scottiebaldwin: "Okay, I'm going to humbly weigh-in here... I'm mad. I'll be waiting outside for you. High noon. And I won't be alone, as Frank Miller will be with me, so I suggest you bring Grace Kelly. |
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| A1t2o |
scat: "If you are going to get all technical about a word, it’s really not a wilderness area, if you want to be real about it. The first definition by Merriam-Webster is… There is a difference between the Webster definition of wilderness and the government's classification of a wilderness area. I get your point, but the reason for the distinction is for the rules that apply. Those rules being followed or not then leads people back to pointing out that difference. I think this is where the "not a park" mentality comes from. People don't want others treating the BWCA as a park and disregarding the rules. |
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| bobbernumber3 |
timatkn: "…bobbernumber3’s post made me LOL Good... but it's really not a park. But Quetico is. Go figure. |
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| nooneuno |
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| 24kGold |
Curious: "Thank you for the responses I hope I Didn’t kick the proverbial hornets nest by calling it a park." You didn't kick a hornet's nest. These days, no one can express an opinion or or comment anywhere without someone taking offense. Of course, they have a right to their opinion, but to take offense and throat punch is now commonplace. So...Don't worry about it at all. This is a great message board. Feel free to join and enjoy. Terry |
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| timatkn |
nooneuno: "Sooo, can I still call it a dog park or is it now a canine recreation area?" It's only a Dog "park" if you have to wait in line an hour to get in, fully accessible, and there is a Ranger making sure you are okay all the time...otherwise it's a dog "wilderness" enter at your own risk... |
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| timatkn |
bobbernumber3: "timatkn: "…bobbernumber3’s post made me LOL When you are there The Q seems more like a Wilderness than the BWCAW. I'll give ya that. It certainly isn't managed like US Park--thank goodness. Part of the difference is different countries categorize land use differently. Quetico is designated a Wilderness Park. So the differences in practice are minor and more semantic than a National Park and a Wilderness in the US. So essentially it's the difference in mechanization allowed in the Q interior (more: float planes, motors, chainsaws, gas by indigenous people and authorities), length of stay allowed, fee structure, and commercial use allowed (you can argue on this one since the current commercialization is under ancestral rights--but all of the Canadian Wilderness parks allow some commercialization as far as I know) vs. the BWCAW. |
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| scat |
Cheers, scat |
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| MidwestFirecraft |
timatkn: "I think both sides just come off on the internet/written word as more upset or condescending than it really is meant." Without inflection, facial expression, etc. this is all to true. Curious, with that in mind feel free to ask any questions about planning a trip in the BWCA. There are so many kind, knowledgeable people on this board that are more than willing to share their collective wisdom. I have learned so much about campsite selection, tarpology, fishing, clothing, etc. from the members on this forum. P.S. As an example LindenTree has given me first hand info on the campsites I was planning on taking a group of kids to. Really important to know a site will be big enough for your group. |
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| Canoearoo |
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| prettypaddle |
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| JWilder |
scat: "Park - wilderness area whatever. Kinda ridic to argue over what it’s called. The original post was how crowded is it compared to other national parks. Getting back to that, I would say it is not overly crowded that you can’t enjoy a great experience in the the Northwoods of Minnesota and find some solitude. I didn’t go last year so I can’t comment on the craziness that was reported, but in all the 25 or so trips before that, I always thought it was not that crowded that it bugged me. If you get in 3-4 lakes in you can have one to yourself for days. You are going to run into other people on portages, but I always enjoyed chatting a bit if they are friendly, some won’t even look at you, but hey that’s their thing, respect that and move on. If you put in a little work you can get away from the crowds. Most of the newbies are prob not into portaging very far in to get away from it all. Do that and I’ll bet you won’t be disappointed. A trip to the BWCA is always a lot of fun. I’m sorry Curious that you were caught between the crossfire. Passionate folks around here! Scat has said it best. A little work pays off. Seek and you will find. JW |
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| scat |
As always, Cheers, scat |