Boundary Waters Quetico Forum :: Listening Point - General Discussion :: Updates and/or confirmation of USFS bear/food rules
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gravelroad |
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thistlekicker |
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nooneuno |
LesliesDad: "Good work Gravelroad. I agree, the first few times you see this it does tend to catch the unenlightened by surprise. Nooneuno (him/he/his/hey asshole) |
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timatkn |
I think people are sensitive to posting conversations in general…Technically wasn’t doxxing but there were disparaging comments about Luke along the lines of career plans, getting slapped with a FOIA, training, that weren’t necessary. Especially when the employee gave all the answers needed in 5 days—-granted needed some prodding :) The other side of the story is this whole line of questioning the orders wasn’t even necessary. If it isn’t listed on the website, on your permit or at the entry point the orders are not enforceable…I can totally see as a FS employee that this was low priority or no priority…especially with the late ice out (behind on maintenance), all of the closures and flooding going on. I applaud you for getting the information and explanation. I wouldn’t of done it but I appreciate knowing more. T |
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SinglePortage |
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gravelroad |
“Thank you for your patience while I was receiving the Termination Order from the Forest Law Enforcement Office. It is attached. “In addition, if it is helpful or applicable to provide context, recently Superior National Forest did upgrade its website (as all National Forests and Grasslands are in the process of doing) to the new/upgraded agency template. In this transition, the Forest made the decision for the sake of clearer messaging to post active orders to the Forest Orders page and not have them listed with terminated orders. Obviously the Forest is still required to and does carry out the termination orders and individuals are more than welcome to request them for whatever reason they see fit (as you obviously have) and we’ll be happy to send them your way. “In such a shift, I understand that some people who may be used to seeing termination orders intermixed with active orders might question the interpretation of the new page or wonder about an order they don’t see. My apologies if this in any way applied you. Please know that from now on, the Forest Orders page will be home to the active orders for those wanting to know what current information applies to today’s visit to the Forest. If something doesn’t make sense or isn’t clear, please let us know. We’d be happy to discuss further. “As always, please let me know if I can be of any additional help. “Best, “Luke Laaveg (he/him/his) Visitor Services and Information Forest Service Superior National Forest Supervisor’s Office p: 218-626-4300 luke.laaveg@usda.gov 8901 Grand Avenue Place Duluth, MN 55808 www.fs.fed.us USDA Logo Forest Service Twitter USDA Facebook Caring for the land and serving people” |
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MikeinMpls |
Mike |
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LesliesDad |
As a side note: I showed the " . . . (he/him/his) . . . " part to my wife because I couldn't believe it. She, being a retired university employee, informed me that this is now becoming a somewhat common practice at Marquette Univ. smh |
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timatkn |
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billconner |
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Jaywalker |
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tumblehome |
With that, could it be that the USFS had meeting and formally withdrew the order? They then instructed the webmaster to remove the order which is the public face of the USFS. Short of them publishing the minutes from the meeting, removing the order from the website is the end result of the withdraw. In Government, if it doesn’t say you can’t- then you can. Tom |
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mschi772 |
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geotramper |
LesliesDad: "Good work Gravelroad. I also find the doxxing and criticism of Luke in this public forum to be inappropriate at best. He's just doing his job. |
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geotramper |
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MikeinMpls |
geotramper: "And what, exactly, is wrong with someone choosing to share the pronouns that they want others to address them by?" Nothing. Mine was just an observation, but I've edited my comment out of my post because I, for one, will not be going down this rabbit hole. My original post was about bear rules, and I regret even commenting on LesliesDad's post. Mike |
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Freeleo1 |
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timatkn |
gravelroad: "Some of you may recall that a special food storage order was issued in 2020 that applied to five lakes at the end of the Gunflint Trail. I have never found any evidence that it has actually been withdrawn, even after the 2022 withdrawal of the Forest-wide order that was issued in 2021. Good luck and thanks for tryin g to clarify… Trying to find withdrawal of orders on the FS site is frustrating and rarely fruitful :) I believe originally we only knew that the 2021 order was rescinded was a letter sent to outfitters vs. posting on the FS website. If the 2020 rule is in effect for the same lakes, legally it has to be posted at all the possible entries and when you get your permit. Has anyone received a Seagull or Saganaga permit this year or been to any of the entry areas? That would be a tell tale sign as well. T |
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gravelroad |
timatkn: "Good luck and thanks for tryin g to clarify… You may be amused by the (lack of) progress to this point: |
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MikeinMpls |
It is my understanding that the USFS will NOT be REQUIRING trippers to have any kind of bear vault, blue barrel, ursack, or similar to enter (or have in their possession) the BWCA this year. I live in fear that I will have to show them my vault or ursack or whatever when I pick up my permit (and won't get a permit because I don't have any of that stuff.) I don't want to make this a discussion about the virtues of bear mitigation methods, please. Mike |
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geotramper |
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MikeinMpls |
geotramper: "there was this thread a couple months ago where the conclusion was the storage order is no longer in effect" That is what I recall, but I wasn't sure how sure people were about it. I will re-examine the thread and interpret the USFS language as best I can. Thanks Mike |
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naturboy12 |
MikeinMpls: "I know this has been covered last fall, but I am just looking for any updates and/or confirmation: That was never the requirement to begin with. Proper hanging of containers was also allowed. |
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gravelroad |
In the interest of avoiding any "confusion" among paddlers and badge wearers, I have sent an inquiry to the Forest Supervisor asking about the current status of that earlier order. I will report the result here. |
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hernfiry |
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gravelroad |
hernfiry: "FWIW, the Spring Edition of the BWJ had an editors note that the order is no longer in effect for 2022." To clarify - that almost certainly refers to the 2021 Forest-wide order, the withdrawal of which is already documented in the thread mentioned above. |
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mschi772 |
gravelroad: "Drip by drip by drip. And yes, I used to do this for a living. Including the time I hoisted them by their own petard, and a senior federal judge smiled and suggested it was time to let them off the hook and let them go fix their timber sale. :-) Jeezus, why would the termination order need to be specially requested in order to see it? Holy heck, government agencies can be spectacularly dense. |
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LesliesDad |
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gravelroad |
LesliesDad: "Just for the record . . . I agree with Gravelroad. I've dealt with Luke in Duluth before. Couldn't get a straight answer from him." Luke is inches away from getting slapped with a FOIA request. His career plans would benefit from some additional training on the subject, it appears. |
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gravelroad |
geotramper: "Thanks Mike. I don't particularly want to derail the thread either, but I found the backhanded comments about pronouns fairly callous.LesliesDad: "Good work Gravelroad. If by “doxxing” you’re referring to posting verbatim a message in which he ENCOURAGED contact AFTER I told him I’d be sharing his response: You’re full of it and yourself. |