Boundary Waters Quetico Forum :: Listening Point - General Discussion :: Capsized and Seperated
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LaVirginienne |
Yep, redundancy is a critical principle of self rescue. In shoulder season, my view is, every paddler needs to prepare for self rescue. People get separated in emergencies and sometimes can’t reunite in high water/cold water/freezing temps. The principal of redundancy: All life-saving protection needs to be backed up. Here are the main questions to ask on the principle of redundancy: (1) What if this item is not within reach in an emergency? (2) What if this item is rendered useless in an emergency? (3) When this item deployed and fully functional, do I have a reasonable backup option ready to put in place in case of failure or loss? Here is how to ensure redundancy: Always look for (visually confirm) the backup and TEST before relying on that protection. Consider all life saving protection dodgy if you cannot locate and test the backup. Hope this helps. |
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hut301 |
ockycamper: "We have learned the principle of redundancy. . . .2 is 1, 1 is none Great conversation and thanks for the courage to be vulnerable enough to share such a tough story for us to all learn from. Does anyone have more info/stories about the Garmin inreach Mini being waterproof up to 3 ft for 30 mins? Seems like keeping it on my pfd would be workable if I got out of the water in under 30 mins. (I do like the redundancy mentioned here) |
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Argo |
hut301: "ockycamper: "We have learned the principle of redundancy. . . .2 is 1, 1 is none My inReach Explorer plus as well as my eTrex 30 were in the water for about 20 minutes and operated with no issues. |
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Lawnchair107 |
Have you posted this anywhere else? That’s a very popular route that might be beneficial for future paddlers for a couple more weeks. LIS was nasty high a couple days ago on those two river portages. |
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Kermit |
Obviously this has been a running theme this year. Scanning the message boards there’s over half a dozen accounts of people capsizing. I hope anyone with an entry permit in the next few weeks seriously considers the conditions and plan or re-route accordingly. Moving water in flood conditions is a whole different animal than the flat water most are used to. Play it safe. Don’t take risks. If something doesn’t feel right, trust that feeling. Wishing everyone a safe and wonderful season! |
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GopherAdventure |
Tony |
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boonie |
It's amazing how much power that moving water in flood can have and it's deceptive looking compared to whitewater rapids as someone said. You read about cars being swept away in flash floods . . . I looked it up and 1 cubic foot of water contains almost 7.5 gallons which is over 62 lbs. moving at X mph = . . . a lot of force! |
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missmolly |
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Voyager |
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GopherAdventure |
boonie: "Thanks, Tony. Glad everything turned out OK. Did your dad ever get a fire started? It seems rescue was there quickly. You’re right Boonie, the power of water can be so deceptive from the surface. Once I was in it, I could definitely feel the power. Dad never started a fire. He got his wet sweatshirt off, got everything out to get a fire going and said by then he was feeling much less cold. He decided to save the matches and fire starter stuff for later in case he ended up having to spend the night on that island. Tony |
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OldTripper |
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HighnDry |
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HighnDry |
It was fun to be out there and learn to the necessary strokes to navigate and how to read the river, but there was also plenty of potential to get oneself into trouble quickly! Be safe out there. |
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boonie |
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sueb2b |
I had made initial plans before my trip this year. After dealing with high water and wet portages, I scaled back my plans, esp. as they involved creeks and rivers. No regrets. |
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walleyejunky |
Also, thanks for sharing. It's a reminder that even the most experienced of visitors to the BWCA can still run into an issue in the blink of an eye. I will be purchasing one of the SPOT satellite devices soon to have on our future trips. Please don't let it stop you from enjoying future trips to the BWCA! |
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Argo |
tumblehome: "I’m grateful to hear you are both OK. Very scary. I completely understand your dilemna, Tom. It's the irony of using an emergency locator. Instead of providinge calm, it has the ability to generate anxiety instead should you lose it or it malfunctions. But wasn't there someone around whom you could ask if they could send a message for you from their device just to put your loved ones at ease instead of abandoning your trip? Anyone with an emergency communicator could find themselves in a similar situation and should immediately understand necessity of this kind of assistance. |
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fadersup |
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LaVirginienne |
Next, fully behind your redundancy approach! So on board that I never give people gear lists because when I do, they stop doing the work of packing on the principles of redundancy. I encourage people to pack by process, always asking, “what if this item is rendered useless or not within reach when I need it?” So thanks for your sensible reminder! A SPOT in a ZipLoc can slip easily out of pocket or hand, when what you really need to do is push the SOS button—which is a very intentional operation. I’m concerned about these reports of waterproof problems. I was a beta subscriber of SPOT. My SPOTS have been everywhere in all weather. But I’ve ridden my motorcycle at speed in monsoons and all-day rain showers with mine, and it’s never let me down. So, after some careful thought, I think I’ll keep mine strapped on the outside of my PFD. Meanwhile, I’m going to reach out to member services at SPOT and if I learn anything useful I’ll report back. Stay safe everyone! |
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jhb8426 |
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straighthairedcurly |
tumblehome: "I’m grateful to hear you are both OK. Very scary. I had a similar issue with one of my SPOT devices. I was on a solo and so I kept it clipped to my PFD whenever I went swimming. On day 6 it started having some strange symptoms so I opened the back to replace the batteries and discovered it was wet inside the battery area. I dried it that afternoon, replaced the batteries. The next day, about 30 minutes into my paddling, I noticed the SOS light was lit up. I hadn't pressed it. I canceled it and then turned off the device. I continued, but had a lot of anxiety that it might have triggered a S&R or that my family would worry. I got to my planned destination and sent an "I'm OK" but the lights were all lighting up randomly and I wasn't sure it had worked. Since I was a few hours from my exit point, I decided to head out, notify my husband, and then camp out for one more night right by the EP. It has never worked again...turns on, seems fine at first, but then randomly shuts itself off. My other SPOT has been fine for years, and even just successfully completed a trans-Atlantic crossing strapped to the bow of a 52 foot catamaran with my brother and sister. |
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scat |
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LaVirginienne |
Known device failures, like one that atom discussed, have all been related to improper closure of the battery compartment leading to an improper seal. I get it! That is one tricky little screw closing that hatch! Highly recommend when you rent a SPOT device that you open the battery compartment, replace with your own fresh battery, close the compartment yourself, and test the device. According to SPOT, no device failures under rating were reported relating to the charging port in devices that have those. Bottom line: maybe secure your SPOT on similar to the upper chest of your PFD. On the other side of mine is my rescue knife. Practice deploying both without having to look. My Astral Sturgeon PFD comfortably and coolly carries all my self rescue stuff. And it doesn’t get in the way of paddling like the beefier models do (the green and blue jackets). |
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ockycamper |
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timatkn |
T |
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Northwoodsman |
ockycamper: "It ocurred to me that the usual mantra in the BWCA is to make sure the group does not duplicate items. I realize this is to keep the amount of gear down. However, I am re thinking that given these threads. I now think every member of the group should have some type of fire starter, some type of personal stove (Esbit?), some type of personal shelter like a survival blanket. And some type of personal water filtration such as a Lifestraw. " I agree with this. I think everyone should have their own PLB, Spot or InReach type device also. In this case the son sent an SOS and within a few hours they were both reached by rescue crews and extracted by helicopter. What if something happened to the guy with the SOS and he wasn't able to activate it? They could have both perished? There are plenty of scenarios where the person that is capable and needs to send the SOS can't access the device, for that reason it's a good idea to have redundancy. They aren't that expensive, your life is worth it. |
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boonie |
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Jaywalker |
I’m glad you got yourself and your dad out safely. You did the right thing. I get the impression the situation up there right now is much more serious than most people realize. If you can share any more details about where you were, I’d be glad to hear about it. Thanks for sharing your experience. Everyone can learn from it. |
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Northwoodsman |
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cyclones30 |
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straighthairedcurly |
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GopherAdventure |
straighthairedcurly: "Thanks for posting this. It is a reminder that even the most experienced among us can have something go wrong. I am glad you were able to have help reach you and that you and your dad were okay. Are you willing to post which portage so others realize the alternate landing is available?" I should have included the location info. It was the 2nd in a series of three portages between Lake Four and Hudson Lake. I’ve been through there before, but never knew that another trail exists that goes a little farther. |
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GopherAdventure |
He was cold, wet and is diabetic with only one energy bar on his person. We were both shivering and he had no warm clothes to change into. He was in the water for approximately 25 minutes and I was in for about 15. Once I realized there was no way for me to get to him and/or for him to get to me, I hit the SOS button on my Spot device. A few long hours later, we were rescued. In the mean time, I was able to get cell service on my dads phone and got a chance to speak with the wonderful people that were coordinating our rescue. I will forever be grateful to the Fall Lake-Winton Fire Department, Lake County Sheriff and Minnesota State Patrol for getting my dad off that island safely. They were amazing and so swift. I’ve witnessed people in distress and in need of help/evacuation within the BWCA a few times over the years and never thought I would be on the receiving end of emergency services. I have learned a great deal from this experience and am humbled by the power of moving water and how quickly a wonderful day can become nearly tragic. If my dad had been sucked down the rapids, I’m pretty sure he wouldn’t have made it out the other side. We were so lucky to walk away with only a few sore muscles, a deeper respect and fear of the power of moving water, and an astounding appreciation for our rescuers. We were extracted via helicopter as that was the only safe way to get to my dad. I was extracted as well (protocol for rescuers in this situation). After my dad got medically cleared in Ely, we rested up and the next day we paddled back in on a day permit to rescue our gear. I know these stories of rescue get mixed responses, but I’m posting this as a PSA to all paddlers. I made a mistake. I should have stopped, scouted and analyzed the water with more detail than I did. I should have scouted alternate possibilities because it turns out there is an alternate portage that would have gotten us farther upstream with a slightly safer put in. On the positive side, we were prepared for a capsize as both my dad and I have ditch kits and we were wearing PFDs. This is the 2nd time a PFD has saved my life (PFD saved my life when I was 5). If you are ever in this situation and have an emergency device, do not hesitate to hit the button. Time is of the essence in these situations and I felt that every time I looked over at my dad shivering and stranded on a tiny island. I felt ashamed after the rescue for making a mistake and needing evacuation, but that quickly faded when we got a chance to speak with the rescuers as they all said we did the right thing. The state patrol, the sheriff, and the DNR all told us that we did the right thing in not trying to attempt a self rescue or request aid from any other groups in the area. We are incredibly humbled and grateful for the assistance we received and hope we never need it again. Stay safe paddlers, Tony |
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DougD |
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ockycamper |
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Minnesotian |
HighnDry: "I'll add to the above just to say that I did my first whitewater class this past weekend. We were up on tributary to the St. Croix and the river was rocking. Boulder gardens and the like were completely submerged and eddy pools were washed out. Lots of downed trees created "strainers" and "sweepers" (i.e. trees that had the potential to "sweep" you out of your canoe or "strain" the water that could also catch your canoe and dump you. I was exploring an area of the St. Croix tributary system last weekend, the Snake River. Amazing to see how high it was. Reminded me of glacier creeks from out west with the speed and volume of water. |
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Speckled |
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ockycamper |
I carry a Spot in a zip lock on my PFD. I also have a Sat PHone in a waterproof case in my sealine pack. Our other two camps have Garmin Inreach devices. Finally, all three camps have Baofang hand held radios. as a final preparation, all three camps carry "brick" type battery chargers to keep emergency devices charged. |
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tumblehome |
Staying sort of on subject about my SPOT story. SPOT locators are not weather-proof and hardly weather resistant. I had a SPOT get dunked in water when I spilled on a trip for a few seconds while it was turned off. Some of the LEDS started flashing randomly and I ended up taking off the screws that hold it together and there was water inside. There is a mini-USB plug on the device that allows water in. I was told of a story from the company I rented this from that a scout group got their SPOT wet and it ended up sending an emergency call on it’s own when there was no emergency. Keep your portable electronic devices in a zip-loc or Pelican. When my SPOT got wet it ruined my trip since I could no longer send check-in messages. I didn’t want my family to worry about me by not getting check-ins so I had to leave early. What a mess! I take a SPOT to let people know I am OK and in the end it wrecked my trip anyway. Wisdom….. Tom |
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Canoearoo |
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PeaceFrog |
Best - PeaceFrog |
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GopherAdventure |
Speckled: "Glad everyone is ok. Where did this happen? We just came across a swamped canoe this weekend between Gabbro and L Gabbro. The current there is ridiculous right now!" At the second of the three portages between Lake Four and Hudson. |
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AceAceAce |
I can attest to how crazy the water is up there. I just got home from a trip in the north Kawishiwi river area. We drastically modified our plans because we just were not comfortable with how strong the current was in some of the rapids and pinch points. Even at that we had to be really careful in what normally would have been easy traveling. |
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GopherAdventure |
Capsize and Rescue Thanks again paddling family, Tony |
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Jaywalker |
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Northwoodsman |
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Jaywalker |
straighthairedcurly: "tumblehome: "I’m grateful to hear you are both OK. Very scary. I didn’t realize Spots had replaceable batteries - that seems like a huge vulnerability. Was that a Spot Gen 3 or 4? Tumblehome, which model did you have? And it was a rental, right? That too seems like a vulnerability. |
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carbon1 |
I am very crateful for those who perform this service. |
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chessie |
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thefourofus |
With the record high waters across the northwoods this spring, it is good to keep in mind that even when the water returns to normal, the creeks, rivers and rapids may not be the same as they were before. Don't take anything for granted. I learned this on a creek down here in Indiana. I had been canoeing and kayaking this creek for years. I knew it quite well. I would always check the water levels before heading out and by the numbers I saw I knew exactly how the paddle would be. 6 inches or less: alot of bottom scraping and walking. 6 inches to 1 foot. A perfect paddle with a few Class one rapids just for fun (my kind of paddle). Over one foot the rapids would start gaining a class for every two inches. Over 1 1/2 feet the creek had some class fives. This was all until the area had some record rains and flooding. The creek raged for weeks and actually attracted some serious kayakers. That wasn't for me. I waited for the water to finally come down and one Satuday afternoon I checked and the water was 9" at the bridge. Perfect! I gathered up the family and headed out. My wife, daughter and I in the canoe and my son in his kayak. No need to scout as I knew this creek. Well we hit the first rapids. It consists of a long (200 yards) set of small ledges that result in some waves up to maybe 9" tall at that level. Wrong, those waves were up to two feet and breaking over the bow of the canoe. My 11 year old son in the kayak was doing great but working really hard. Once we cleared the ledges, we turned to wait for our son and that is when he went over. The water was shallow and he was able to stop himself and secure his kayak, but I had to fight the current and walk up to him to get him back in the kayak and walk him down. We rested and I scouted the next rapid and I would classify it as at least a 4. That put an end to that trip and I walked back to the truck. What happened is that the flood waters had washed out the sediment between ledges and cleared out lots of obstructions in the creek. The water moved much faster through the creek after that. 9 inches in height where I checked did not mean the same thing anymore. |
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minnmike |
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