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06/04/2024 09:34AM |
OMGitsKa: "Have to wonder if life jackets would have made any difference here. Sad story to hear him tell the story of how it all went down, guy was able to swim and walk down the shore with a broken pelvis.... RIP. "
Nothing is certain, but lifejackets definitely would have helped their chances. Even if they had gotten knocked out at least help would have been able to get to them.
Very sad. Be safe out there.
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06/04/2024 08:33AM |
kjw: "I think life jackets would have made a difference provided they are secured on properly and don’t go straight up off your body. The life jackets would have provided some padding going down the falls, extra warmth for the cold water and if you are not knocked out extra buoyancy to help you swim to keep your head above water even if you get into area where Curtain Falls is trying to suck you under. "
I believe it was stated earlier that both were wearing their life jackets, or at least very likely to have been wearing them because the lifejackets were not found. That doesn't stop you from getting pinned under the falls.
I believe this is a case where they did everything right and just went over the falls because they were trying to help someone else. From what I've heard, the only thing they could have done differently is to not help out.
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06/04/2024 11:20AM |
A1t2o: "kjw: "I think life jackets would have made a difference provided they are secured on properly and don’t go straight up off your body. The life jackets would have provided some padding going down the falls, extra warmth for the cold water and if you are not knocked out extra buoyancy to help you swim to keep your head above water even if you get into area where Curtain Falls is trying to suck you under. "
I believe it was stated earlier that both were wearing their life jackets, or at least very likely to have been wearing them because the lifejackets were not found. That doesn't stop you from getting pinned under the falls.
I believe this is a case where they did everything right and just went over the falls because they were trying to help someone else. From what I've heard, the only thing they could have done differently is to not help out."
According to the surviving brother (Erik) in the podcast linked above, none of them were wearing life jackets at the time of the incident. The canoe with the Gram brothers in it went to help the other canoe with their friends in it that had already capsized. The story told directly by Erik is heart wrenching. The additional pair in the canoe who aided in the rescue of the two survivors after they went a ways downriver truly saved two lives that day.
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06/04/2024 11:59AM |
RatherbeDuffing: "plmn: "OMGitsKa: "Have to wonder if life jackets would have made any difference here. Sad story to hear him tell the story of how it all went down, guy was able to swim and walk down the shore with a broken pelvis.... RIP. "
Nothing is certain, but lifejackets definitely would have helped their chances. Even if they had gotten knocked out at least help would have been able to get to them.
Very sad. Be safe out there. "
Not necessarily... Probably a lot of snags in and around the falls. Life jackets can get snagged in that scenario. Not saying it did here, but I don't think you can definitely say they would have helped.."
I did say nothing is certain, but will maintain that the odds are considerably better with a lifejacket than without. I think there is a mountain of evidence to back that up. Kind of like how in certain rare situations you may be better off not wearing a seat belt, but usually a seat belt is safer.
I thought the incident from years ago that Paul mentioned in the podcast was interesting. He wore boots and jeans in a canoe and when it capsized he nearly drowned despite being a good swimmer. A few years back a college swim instructor tried swimming across the Red River in Fargo, which doesn't appear to be intimidating, and ended up drowning. It can happen to anybody.
In any case, Reis's brother Erik who also went over has said he wanted to make sure people knew they should have been wearing them.
I'm not saying this to sound preachy or arrogant and debated not saying anything at all because I don't want it come off that way. But I think it's an important message and I hope people heed it.
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06/04/2024 04:42PM |
https://www.facebook.com/SLCRescue
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06/04/2024 04:59PM |
A1t2o: "kjw: "I think life jackets would have made a difference provided they are secured on properly and don’t go straight up off your body. The life jackets would have provided some padding going down the falls, extra warmth for the cold water and if you are not knocked out extra buoyancy to help you swim to keep your head above water even if you get into area where Curtain Falls is trying to suck you under. "
I believe it was stated earlier that both were wearing their life jackets, or at least very likely to have been wearing them because the lifejackets were not found. That doesn't stop you from getting pinned under the falls.
I believe this is a case where they did everything right and just went over the falls because they were trying to help someone else. From what I've heard, the only thing they could have done differently is to not help out."
Sorry if this is redundant, but it was confirmed they were not wearing life vests and one of the survivors (Reis’s brother) said this was something they should have done. No way to know for sure if they would have helped, but they certainly wouldn’t have hurt. Sometimes just more padding might help survival…or if knocked unconscious they can keep your head up instead of sinking and drowning. Hypothermia also set up very quickly. PVD can add insulation. I bring the life jacket up to make people think, not to preach. I haven’t done everything perfect in life either, just lucky sometimes.
You are correct though not helping would have saved their lives, but according to Reis’s brother that was never an option they would accept and I can respect that.
T
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05/19/2024 07:56PM |
My prayers are with all involved….
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05/19/2024 08:23PM |
another sad day
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05/19/2024 08:28PM |
BOUNDARY WATERS CANOE AREA WILDERNESS — The St. Louis County Rescue Squad is searching for two missing canoeists Sunday after two canoes went over Curtain Falls on Saturday evening.
The water emergency began around 7:21 p.m. according to a report from the St. Louis County Sheriff's Office. Two canoes containing four individuals went over the falls, leaving one injured, one uninjured and two missing.
Two of the party were extracted from near Iron Lake around 12:30 a.m. Sunday. The injured individual was flown to Essentia Health-St. Mary's Medical Center in Duluth with serious but not life-threatening injuries.
Search efforts for the two missing individuals resumed Sunday, led by the St. Louis County Rescue Squad with assistance from the Virginia Fire Department, Minnesota Department of Natural Resources and North Air Care.
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05/19/2024 09:28PM |
Iron lake area closures
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05/23/2024 12:21PM |
My deepest sympathy goes out to the family and friends of these two missing men.
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05/20/2024 12:53PM |
plmn: "From a friend of Reis Grams on Facebook:
"He and his friend were in one canoe and his brother and another guy were in a different canoe. They were fishing and saved a different canoeist from going over the falls and in turn, both their canoes went over. His brother and the other guy were airlifted out. Reis and his friend are still missing." "
Events such as this are never easy to accept though there is solace in knowing that, while hopefully not though likely at this point, their final act was a noble one.
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05/23/2024 01:16PM |
benharty81: "What direction is the water flowing? Into Iron or into Crooked? "
Into Iron.
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05/20/2024 08:26AM |
"He and his friend were in one canoe and his brother and another guy were in a different canoe. They were fishing and saved a different canoeist from going over the falls and in turn, both their canoes went over. His brother and the other guy were airlifted out. Reis and his friend are still missing."
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05/20/2024 01:34PM |
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05/20/2024 02:16PM |
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05/23/2024 09:17PM |
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05/25/2024 05:07AM |
A big thanks to all involved in the recue/recovery. We know you are giving up Family Memorial weekend traditions. Godspeed to all involved.
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05/25/2024 09:31AM |
Findian: "
Yes big thanks for all those doing the recovery and the original rescue. We are about a week out now trying to give the family some closure.
T
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05/25/2024 01:33PM |
Findian: "
Wow, thanks for the visual. What a challenging area for search or recovery.
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05/21/2024 08:21AM |
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05/21/2024 08:49AM |
WesternHills: "This is devastating. I don't know either of the two men, but I spent the last 30 minutes looking at the Facebook pages for both of them. They both appear to be very capable and competent men in the prime of their lives, and both well acquainted with the outdoors. My thoughts and definitely my prayers will be with them and their beautiful families."
I did the same thing and it really made it hit home.
Very sad start to the season. Be careful out there.
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05/26/2024 02:23PM |
There is quite a bit of pull from the current above the falls as anyone that’s been near them can attest. Even at 50’ before the drop, the current is taking you in.
I sure hope those men are found soon.
I lost a friend in 1992 due to drowning and they didn’t find him for three weeks. But he was found. It was so hard on the family. There is some biology that will bring them to the surface at some point.
Tom
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05/26/2024 06:34AM |
I took none of these pictures and posted for readers prospective only.
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05/26/2024 12:27PM |
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05/27/2024 07:40PM |
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05/25/2024 01:40AM |
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05/19/2024 05:22PM |
Really sad. This must be the group. I hate to hear things like this.
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05/19/2024 04:34PM |
T
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05/19/2024 03:25PM |
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05/19/2024 02:27PM |
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05/19/2024 05:47PM |
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05/19/2024 05:47PM |
Two canoes, four men. Two found.
Reis and Jesse are still missing.
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05/19/2024 06:06PM |
bwcalove2: "There are two men missing.
Two canoes, four men. Two found.
Reis and Jesse are still missing."
Keeping everyone involved in my thoughts!
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05/20/2024 02:26PM |
" Tonight, there will be a prayer service held for Reis and Jesse at Eagle Brook Church - Ham Lake campus from 7pm - 8pm - all are welcome to come pray that they would be found. If you are available to be present for this time of prayer, that would be greatly appreciated by the Gram and Haugen family.
The address 1503 157th Ave NE, Ham Lake, MN 55304"
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05/20/2024 09:08PM |
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05/20/2024 10:10PM |
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05/21/2024 11:47AM |
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05/21/2024 11:54AM |
T
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05/21/2024 12:09PM |
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05/21/2024 01:44PM |
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05/21/2024 01:41PM |
God Speed
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05/21/2024 02:04PM |
It's only May.
My condolences to the family and friends of those that perished.
Camping out there when you know people are searching for deceased campes can change the mood of the trip.
I was on basswood some years ago when a pesky helicopter kept buzzing over me throughout a day. I was angry and curious.
Not until I returned did I hear that they were searching for a drowned canoeist
Tom
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05/21/2024 03:58PM |
If I have that wrong and it's entirely within the US, I'm still wondering - theoretically - how a search and rescue operation is managed when the victims could be in either country when there's an accident straddling the border.
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05/21/2024 04:14PM |
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05/21/2024 04:45PM |
MinnesotaJenny: "Where’s the best news source for updates on these men? Were they wearing pfd’s? Then even if their head got banged up they would float to the surface then be very very cold and it will come down to what they were wearing and weather "
Right now search appears to be focused on the likelihood that their bodies are trapped underwater at the base of the falls. And the MPR link further up this message chain has current info.
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05/26/2024 10:38AM |
Some more curtain falls photos. It’s dangerous.
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05/22/2024 11:10AM |
We were so stupid, and I feel very lucky to be alive.
This is very different situation of course, and these guys were not being stupid, they didn't go over Curtain Falls on purpose. Just a first hand account of how powerful the undertow is at the base of even a small falls.
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05/22/2024 12:56PM |
MinnesotaJenny: "Where’s the best news source for updates on these men? Were they wearing pfd’s? Then even if their head got banged up they would float to the surface then be very very cold and it will come down to what they were wearing and weather
"
I’m not sure I understand what you’re saying, but I don’t think this is accurate. There are keepers And also a lot of debris that can trap people.
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05/22/2024 12:50PM |
Argo: "I'm curious of the border logistics of this rescue/recovery. Does Curtain Falls straddle the border? If so what are the considerations regarding the operation to recover the bodies? I have not heard of any response from the Canadian side.
If I have that wrong and it's entirely within the US, I'm still wondering - theoretically - how a search and rescue operation is managed when the victims could be in either country when there's an accident straddling the border."
It was pretty much ignored when I was part of a search in the 90s for a young girl who walked away from a cabin on Gunflint Lake. We knew she was headed toward the east end of the lake. What we didn’t know is that she would follow the Canadian shore to a cabin on that side. Which was occupied, fortunately. :-)
I suspect there’s a little more behind-the-scenes coordination these days. Including the exploitation of the Border Patrol sensors …
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05/22/2024 03:20PM |
MinnesotaJenny: "Where’s the best news source for updates on these men? Were they wearing pfd’s? Then even if their head got banged up they would float to the surface then be very very cold and it will come down to what they were wearing and weather "
I watched interview with the wife. She holds out hope because their life jackets were not found which means they were wearing them. They are probably trapped underwater with their life jackets on. That is going to be tough search if they didn’t make it to bottom of falls. Don’t know how you would search the crevices going down the falls. Maybe string a long/large cable across the falls and try to utilize that somehow. Very difficult recovery operation.
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05/23/2024 12:35PM |
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05/24/2024 07:33AM |
Argo: "I'm curious of the border logistics of this rescue/recovery. Does Curtain Falls straddle the border? If so what are the considerations regarding the operation to recover the bodies? I have not heard of any response from the Canadian side.
If I have that wrong and it's entirely within the US, I'm still wondering - theoretically - how a search and rescue operation is managed when the victims could be in either country when there's an accident straddling the border."
I didn’t see anyone respond…Curtain Falls straddles the border. The portage on the US is a shared portage under the Webster-Ahsburton Treaty.
None of the stories say anything about a Canadian Response. My guess is the Canadians just bowed out and let the US handle it since they are US citizens. Probably just easier to involve one response. We have good relations, doubt the Canadians are worried about border issues in this particular case. But I do find it strange nothing is mentioned as Canadian territory is likely involved. Probably all behind the scenes or media hasn’t reported it.
T
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05/31/2024 04:56PM |
nmillette: "It has been reported by the St. Louis County Rescue Squad that one of the paddlers' body has been recovered today. A sad ending, but at least the family now has closure."
RIP
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05/31/2024 03:32PM |
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05/31/2024 04:56PM |
nmillette: "It has been reported by the St. Louis County Rescue Squad that one of the paddlers' body has been recovered today. A sad ending, but at least the family now has closure."
Here is what I found.
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06/03/2024 07:09PM |
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06/03/2024 06:21PM |
https://kfan.iheart.com/featured/allen-s-page/tab/podcasts/
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06/03/2024 06:37PM |
ManitouMan: "Podcast today on KFAN, Paul Allen, with Erik Grams, whose brother is still missing.podcast
https://kfan.iheart.com/featured/allen-s-page/tab/podcasts/"
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06/03/2024 08:20PM |
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06/03/2024 09:48PM |
Pinetree: "ManitouMan: "Podcast today on KFAN, Paul Allen, with Erik Grams, whose brother is still missing.podcast "
https://kfan.iheart.com/featured/allen-s-page/tab/podcasts/"
Hard to listen to such a great trip ending in tragedy. I feel for him. A touching tribute to his brother and friend. A long history with this area. Healing thoughts for everyone involved. I’m not sure who Tony is but what a life saver. Lots of heroes here.
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06/04/2024 11:04AM |
plmn: "OMGitsKa: "Have to wonder if life jackets would have made any difference here. Sad story to hear him tell the story of how it all went down, guy was able to swim and walk down the shore with a broken pelvis.... RIP. "
Nothing is certain, but lifejackets definitely would have helped their chances. Even if they had gotten knocked out at least help would have been able to get to them.
Very sad. Be safe out there. "
Not necessarily... Probably a lot of snags in and around the falls. Life jackets can get snagged in that scenario. Not saying it did here, but I don't think you can definitely say they would have helped..
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06/03/2024 07:39PM |
naturboy12: "Reis Grams body was recovered today, as posted by the rescue squad and the sheriffs office on Facebook. Hopefully it will bring his family some closure after a long couple of weeks. RIP fellow paddler. "
Although we all knew the likely outcome, this just broke my heart.
Part of it I think was the relentless dedication of the crew to find him.
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06/03/2024 07:45PM |
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06/03/2024 08:12PM |
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06/03/2024 10:09PM |
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06/04/2024 09:09AM |
I pray heaven surrounds you with utmost grace and peace.
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06/04/2024 05:06PM |
second body found near Curtain Falls - Ely Echo
From WTIP
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06/04/2024 05:15PM |
A1t2o: "kjw:
I believe this is a case where they did everything right and just went over the falls because they were trying to help someone else. From what I've heard, the only thing they could have done differently is to not help out."
I've done a fair share of rescue training via the Red Cross and in virtually every situation the training stresses to assess the safety of the situation first. I know that it isn't always easy, especially in light of rapid water. Such a tragedy.
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06/06/2024 08:56PM |