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06/06/2024 04:23PM |
There have been another 17 human fatalities caused by black bears.
In Two of the fatalities the bears were sprayed with bear spray. Stephaine Blaise Aug. 27th, 2020.
Then Erin Johnson at the Pogo mine in 2017
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06/03/2024 12:16PM |
timatkn: "I shared a tow with one of the guys who were attacked by a black bear in the 80’s.
That bear attacked 3 people in a predatory manner. A 7 year old female 117 pounds. Had lower body fat than expected but not malnourished. No health issues. I believe Lynn Rogers did some of the research on this bear to determine why it attacked people and although very rare it was a predatory bear. Just didn’t see people as dangerous.
All the people attacked fought back and were able to get away…as Jeremy told me…”The bear is gone and I’m still going” that was about 20 years later.
T
Here is the BWJ article that can explain it better than me.
BWCAW bear attack "
Thank you for sharing this article; super interesting.
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06/07/2024 07:21AM |
So close to 300,000 people a year enter the MN-Ontario wilderness and ZERO people have been killed by bears in its history. There have been 3 attacks in this area, all the same bear roughly 40 years ago, and all fought back…no bear spray, no guns and survived/thrived.
Just saying this because I know people can get scared of bears. The most dangerous thing you will do to go on a BWCAW trip is drive your car to get there. That’s where you are most likely to die…second is canoe without a life vest (drown), third is have a tree fall on you, 4th get struck by lightning, 5th fall/head injury, 6th cardiovascular, somewhere about a million times down the line is a bear statistically speaking…
Don’t be complacent, but I suspect most people afraid of bears don’t take appropriate precautions on the things that can actually kill them. Just trying to add perspective. We fear the things that matter least and ignore the most pressing issues.
T
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06/07/2024 10:37AM |
Black bears have killed 61 people across North America since 1900. This no longer worries me. My chances of being killed by a domestic dog, bees, or lightning are vastly greater. My chances of being murdered are 60,000 times greater. One of the safest places a person can be is in the woods.
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06/07/2024 08:39AM |
timatkn: "Just like to point out that as far as bears go specifically to the BWCAW gets roughly 250,000 visitors a year and The Q another 25,000.
So close to 300,000 people a year enter the MN-Ontario wilderness and ZERO people have been killed by bears in its history. There have been 3 attacks in this area, all the same bear roughly 40 years ago, and all fought back…no bear spray, no guns and survived/thrived.
Just saying this because I know people can get scared of bears. The most dangerous thing you will do to go on a BWCAW trip is drive your car to get there. That’s where you are most likely to die…second is canoe without a life vest (drown), third is have a tree fall on you, 4th get struck by lightning, 5th fall/head injury, 6th cardiovascular, somewhere about a million times down the line is a bear statistically speaking…
Don’t be complacent, but I suspect most people afraid of bears don’t take appropriate precautions on the things that can actually kill them. Just trying to add perspective. We fear the things that matter least and ignore the most pressing issues.
T"
Not to get too far off track, but yes, a tree is my biggest worry in most camps. Probably because I maintain mountain bike trails and there are downed trees or branches that need clearing after nearly every storm. It seems more often than not you can't predict what might fall or in what direction. It is miraculous that there weren't any fatalities during the big blowdown.
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06/11/2024 09:11AM |
Jakthund: "Carbonfiber: "When one cannot attack the data, one attacks the data giver.
Took me maybe a half an hour to research the data. It is all available on the net, if
one cares to look for it. "
Just asked a question, which you answered in your response. Last post on this topic"
Since he likes facts, ask him about U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service Fact Sheet #8 which found that people defending themselves with firearms suffer injury about 50% of the time, while persons defending themselves with pepper spray escaped injury most of the time and those injuries experienced were shorter in duration and less severe. Those facts were corroborated by the personal research of Canadian Bear Biologist Dr. Stephen Herrero that a person's chance of serious injury doubles when bullets are fired versus when bear spray is used.
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06/11/2024 09:48PM |
A radio collared sow at my house with its male suitor. They mate in June, the year before the sow had 4 cubs and that summer two got hit on the highway.
Mn. DNR wildlife notes:
This is BR1, the first bear near Brainerd collared in a new phase of the reproductive work we’ve been doing since the 1980s. She was collared in the den in 2022 with 4 female cubs, right along the eastern boundary fence of the airport. Of those, two survived until yearlings. She spends a lot of time on both sides of 210, near the airport, and in midsummer tends to be down to the southeast, in your neck of the woods. Her den last year was on the NW side of the airport near the cross-country ski trail system.
She’s 9 (if I recall correctly). She’s in estrus, so that second bear with her is certainly one of her suitors. She weighed 250 lbs or so with cubs in March 2022, and was roughly 225 with yearlings in March 2023. This is the bear featured in the spring issue of Lakes Country Magazine.
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06/11/2024 09:57PM |
I have bear all over the place.
This spring while turkey hunting, I had a SOW with 4 yearling cubs come in while calling. I am a poor turkey caller but other critters love me.
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06/12/2024 12:15AM |
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06/07/2024 02:01PM |
Took me maybe a half an hour to research the data. It is all available on the net, if
one cares to look for it.
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06/07/2024 02:49PM |
Carbonfiber: "When one cannot attack the data, one attacks the data giver.
Took me maybe a half an hour to research the data. It is all available on the net, if
one cares to look for it. "
Just asked a question, which you answered in your response. Last post on this topic
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06/07/2024 11:04AM |
There have been no lighting fatalities in AK.
No fatal dog Attacks In. Ak.
Apox. 29 fatal bear attacks in AK.
One fatal dog attack in Montana.
Apox. 18 fatal bear attacks in Montana
One fatal dog attack in MN one fatal bear attack in MN.
Considering dogs greatly out number bears.
Considering the small number of bears and the few times humans encounter bears. One is far more likely to be killed by a bear if you encounter one.
Far more people live in dog country then live in bear country.
When in bear country one is far more likely to be attacked and killed by a bear then a dog.
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06/07/2024 12:07PM |
Carbonfiber: "Apox. 29 fatal bear attacks in AK.
Apox. 18 fatal bear attacks in Montana"
Comparing Brown Bear (Grizzly) attacks to Black Bears isn't valid.
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06/07/2024 12:44PM |
soundguy0918: "Carbonfiber: "Apox. 29 fatal bear attacks in AK.
Apox. 18 fatal bear attacks in Montana"
Comparing Brown Bear (Grizzly) attacks to Black Bears isn't valid."
Several black bear attacks are included in those numbers.
Making general statements about dog attacks or lighting deaths.
Seems farther afield then bear deaths.
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06/07/2024 01:07PM |
Are you already on the board as someone else? Are you trying to troll people here?
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06/07/2024 03:27PM |
plmn: "timatkn: "Just like to point out that as far as bears go specifically to the BWCAW gets roughly 250,000 visitors a year and The Q another 25,000.
So close to 300,000 people a year enter the MN-Ontario wilderness and ZERO people have been killed by bears in its history. There have been 3 attacks in this area, all the same bear roughly 40 years ago, and all fought back…no bear spray, no guns and survived/thrived.
Just saying this because I know people can get scared of bears. The most dangerous thing you will do to go on a BWCAW trip is drive your car to get there. That’s where you are most likely to die…second is canoe without a life vest (drown), third is have a tree fall on you, 4th get struck by lightning, 5th fall/head injury, 6th cardiovascular, somewhere about a million times down the line is a bear statistically speaking…
Don’t be complacent, but I suspect most people afraid of bears don’t take appropriate precautions on the things that can actually kill them. Just trying to add perspective. We fear the things that matter least and ignore the most pressing issues.
T"
Not to get too far off track, but yes, a tree is my biggest worry in most camps. Probably because I maintain mountain bike trails and there are downed trees or branches that need clearing after nearly every storm. It seems more often than not you can't predict what might fall or in what direction. It is miraculous that there weren't any fatalities during the big blowdown. "
On an Ologies podcast the guest, a butterfly scientist, was discussing his biggest fear when working in the jungles of South America. He had come face to face with jaguars and had been held at gunpoint twice but his biggest fear was the trees. His account of trees falling and bringing down a bunch of neighbors which were connected by vines is impressive.
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06/07/2024 04:56PM |
Just search for fatal dog attacks in the USA and one can count them.
It would appear the Wikipedia fatal dog attack numbers list I used is sorely. lacking in accuracy.
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06/07/2024 03:52PM |
Carbonfiber: "The article cited above is outdated.
There have been another 17 human fatalities caused by black bears.
In Two of the fatalities the bears were sprayed with bear spray. Stephaine Blaise Aug. 27th, 2020.
Then Erin Johnson at the Pogo mine in 2017"
Erin Johnson was unable to deploy bear spray, and her work mate wasn't able to initially. Eventually Trainer (her workmate) did deploy bear spray, which authorities attribute to saving her life. She sustained some injuries.
Stephanie Blais did not deploy bear mace, according to reports. After she was killed her husband did spray the bear, to no avail (it reportedly became more aggravated) and he shot/killed the bear. Both bears were predatory. Yes, the reference I initially posted is outdated (2011) but none-the-less seemed to contain some valuable info, which is why I posted it. This post wasn't meant to rank order risks in the wild, simply to share info r/t bear attacks.
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06/07/2024 04:21PM |
Carbonfiber: "In Montana and AK, one is far more likely to get killed by a bear than a dog or lighting.
There have been no lighting fatalities in AK.
No fatal dog Attacks In. Ak.
Apox. 29 fatal bear attacks in AK.
One fatal dog attack in Montana.
Apox. 18 fatal bear attacks in Montana
One fatal dog attack in MN one fatal bear attack in MN.
Considering dogs greatly out number bears.
Considering the small number of bears and the few times humans encounter bears. One is far more likely to be killed by a bear if you encounter one.
Far more people live in dog country then live in bear country.
When in bear country one is far more likely to be attacked and killed by a bear then a dog."
MN Dept of Health: 2023
At least 5 humans died from dog bites in Minnesota the last 20 years.
There have been just a handful of fatal attacks by dogs in Minnesota over the past 20 years, according to state data. A man was mauled by four pit bull dogs outside his Brooklyn Center home and died from what officials called "extensive bites on a majority of his body."
Man mauled to death by pit bulls behind his Brooklyn Center home
How many people have died from a dog attack in Minnesota?
Dog attacks are among the rarest causes of death in Minnesota. Over the past 20 years,four other people have reportedly died in the state from a dog attack, according to death certificate data kept by the Minnesota Department of Health.
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06/02/2024 09:57AM |
Bear Attack Research Findings
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06/02/2024 11:04AM |
That bear attacked 3 people in a predatory manner. A 7 year old female 117 pounds. Had lower body fat than expected but not malnourished. No health issues. I believe Lynn Rogers did some of the research on this bear to determine why it attacked people and although very rare it was a predatory bear. Just didn’t see people as dangerous.
All the people attacked fought back and were able to get away…as Jeremy told me…”The bear is gone and I’m still going” that was about 20 years later.
T
Here is the BWJ article that can explain it better than me.
BWCAW bear attack
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06/11/2024 03:13PM |
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06/11/2024 01:21PM |
Freddy: "Jakthund: "Carbonfiber: "When one cannot attack the data, one attacks the data giver.
Took me maybe a half an hour to research the data. It is all available on the net, if
one cares to look for it. "
Just asked a question, which you answered in your response. Last post on this topic"
Since he likes facts, ask him about U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service Fact Sheet #8 which found that people defending themselves with firearms suffer injury about 50% of the time, while persons defending themselves with pepper spray escaped injury most of the time and those injuries experienced were shorter in duration and less severe. Those facts were corroborated by the personal research of Canadian Bear Biologist Dr. Stephen Herrero that a person's chance of serious injury doubles when bullets are fired versus when bear spray is used."
You can't take all claims at face value:
Does Bear Spray Work?
In summary:
So what’s the conclusion here? To me, this isn’t an argument for or against guns or for or against bear spray. It’s an argument that, despite the presence of deterrents, dealing with an aggressive bear encounter does not involve any sure outcomes. Rather than beginning and ending the conversation with a false statement about bear spray’s efficacy, we should instead acknowledge that recreating safely in bear country requires training and knowledge—not dogma.
I also talked about this earlier this year, but for the record, using the limited data available, handguns have been 98% effective against bear attacks. I'm not going to go into that in depth again, but here is the known data if you'd like to look:
Handgun Defenses Against Bear Attacks
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06/11/2024 02:10PM |
Okay. I realized my comment was primarily an agreement with Jakthund's earlier post and not to rehash a contentious issue from the past but rather to focus on the prevalence of misinformation that we all are tempted to embrace when we see something that supports out personal bias. Wikipedia for instance is not considered a reliable source by most universities since it allows multiple users to edit, and it is not safe to assume that the facts presented there have been checked before publishing. My example for instance is data from actual case studies by the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Department as opposed to a questionable article from Ammoland.com. We all need to embrace truth wherever it exists whether it supports our worldview or not.
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06/11/2024 06:51PM |
Findian: "The FS bear guys that I know are trained with 870 shot guns for bears when needed. But if you can't handle a gun ... stick to the blow. I live in bear country and have guns and spray. Have never had to use them. "
This is where I stand on this… black bear and grizzly are two separate animals. I live in bear country also and the population is quite high now. We take precautions, pull in our bird feeders… but we go on living our lives. Of course bear incidents will have higher numbers as our population moves in on their space. I don’t see much difference from now to 1977… as far as problem bear. Just social media making it more out there.
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06/11/2024 02:33PM |
Freddy: "
Okay. I realized my comment was primarily an agreement with Jakthund's earlier post and not to rehash a contentious issue from the past but rather to focus on the prevalence of misinformation that we all are tempted to embrace when we see something that supports out personal bias. Wikipedia for instance is not considered a reliable source by most universities since it allows multiple users to edit, and it is not safe to assume that the facts presented there have been checked before publishing. My example for instance is data from actual case studies by the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Department as opposed to a questionable article from Ammoland.com. We all need to embrace truth wherever it exists whether it supports our worldview or not."
Ammoland lists each incident for you to read and consider for yourself. Attack the data, not the messenger, if you want to call it questionable. The Outside story using Tom Smith's studies is pretty consistent and shows how easily data is manipulated by some outlets, like not differentiating between spraying a curious bear from spraying a bear that was attacking. Bear spray does not do very well in actual attacks.
Originally my personal bias was towards spray because I didn't think a 9mm carry pistol would do much, but there is a fair bit of evidence that says otherwise. Especially seeing that I am more proficient with it because I'm at the range every month. Or at least, I am in non-emergency situations. Who knows how I would react when under duress, there's no way to really know. But the same is true of spray. Much like my seat belt or PFD, I don't plan on ever needing it. But I still utilize all of them.