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07/29/2024 07:28AM |
It worked fine, although the ursacks are annoying in that they are in no way color coded so you had to open them to find out which one had dinner.....answer is the last one you open, LOL.
We got checked by the rangers and they didn't even mention our barrel, which was on ground in camp, clearly visible. So was the vault, so maybe they just assumed we were in compliance?
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07/29/2024 12:37PM |
I'll mention yet again that if a bear actually did try to get into the Ursack I wouldn't like it near as much. Getting stuff crushed and slobbered on would not be fun. So the critical stuff goes in the BearVault. I view the Ursack as a convenient compliance item and wouldn't trust it alone to keep my food edible.
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07/29/2024 09:09PM |
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07/11/2024 05:08PM |
Thanks for removing the stuck rope and pulley. We did the same on Snipe Lake a few years back where someone had abandoned them.
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07/11/2024 05:23PM |
straighthairedcurly: "No changes for us. We have been using Ursacks with Smelly Proof bags inside for years already. Gave up hanging food now that so many areas have poor hanging trees. One of the last trips where we hung also resulted in a huge delay to remove one of our rope/pulleys that got horrible jammed 30+ feet up in a pine.
Thanks for removing the stuck rope and pulley. We did the same on Snipe Lake a few years back where someone had abandoned them."
Thanks for removing the ropes SHC and all. It is my pet peeve as a volunteer ranger to leave a campsite we checked and still had ropes remaining in trees. Unfortunately we have to leave them somtimes and have no choice.
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07/16/2024 09:14AM |
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07/16/2024 10:30AM |
rertel: "" On the original thread about the regulation I proposed the FS suspend a thin cable between suitable trees for ease of hanging packs in a bear proof manner, still thing it was not such a bad idea.
What are your thoughts?"
I think it's a good idea that would save wear and tear on the trees in the campsite and disturb the wilderness less in the long run. But then, I've only been doing this 20 years so what do I know."
Have you watched how trees move in a strong wind? It might take a pretty strong cable to keep it from snapping as one tree moved south while the other the cable was attached to moved north.
Over the past 45 years we have had 2 bears come into our campsite that were seen. One required a stern "Get out" and the other i chased with a stick and that one came in as we were repacking our gear to move on after eating lunch. Hard to hang the pack when you are trying to put it in the canoe.
Last week my wife and I were checked by a ranger as we were out fishing. A pleasant encounter and we told them which campsite we were staying at. Our food packs were hung from the only available limb and could not have been 12 feet off the ground or 6 feet from the tree but there was no follow up on that. We tried the best we could with the resource available.
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07/10/2024 04:31PM |
timatkn: "merlyn: " Any comments on the practicality of the food storage rules, thus far this season? Pro or con.
our pack hang was marginal at best but passed inspection from the two wardens who stopped by. They said they understood that many sites lacked perfect hanging trees."
Not picking on ya, so I hope it doesn’t come off that way. This was my argument all along against the new regulations. Many sites just don’t have the proper trees to hang, especially with the recent fires. A lot of people aren’t going to know that until they get there and now they’re only option is to hang but not per the specs needed to actually deter a bear. The intent was good. In practice it is not practical.
There is not any evidence that using the blue barrels was less effective than hanging. Previously, anecdotal and actual data, points to hanging as the least effective method, although mostly due to error or circumstances. It can definitely be effective under the right circumstances. Not trying to argue that, but it takes time to learn, develop the skill, and you actually need trees in the area.
I am glad the FS didn’t fine you and understood the circumstances. That’s how it should be, just has my head shaking on how that was “better” for the bears?
I don’t think the cable idea will fly. Good idea, but too costly and not in budget for the FS, vandalism (more costs), and statistically speaking bears stealing food is a very small issue (not if your the one they steal from or if your the bear that needs to be put down :))—to justify the funding would be tough.
Thanks for sharing your experience.
T
"
This^^^
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07/18/2024 04:30PM |
We were checked by rangers. They were very nice and happy we were complying.
Hanging isn't the only correct answer, in fact it often can't be done as described in the regulations in many sites. Not a problem. Store your food items a distance from the camp.
I appreciated Cliff Jacobson's thoughts on the subject which he has shared many times over the years in his books and at speaking engagements. That's what we do.
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07/29/2024 04:19PM |
Every BWCA campsite has a latrine and a fire grate. I hear very few to absolutely zero complaints regarding the inclusion of those features in the wilderness. If bears continue to be a problem requiring food to be hung then a forest service installed food hang at each campsite will be inevitable.
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07/29/2024 10:28PM |
dogwoodgirl: "Just got back from 2 weeks out, first time with the new regs. I have a barrel and harness that I love, so I stuffed it full of ursacks. They take up space, so we also needed to bring my vault. Put the days food in the vault along with things we needed every day, like dish soap, toothpaste, etc.
It worked fine, although the ursacks are annoying in that they are in no way color coded so you had to open them to find out which one had dinner.....answer is the last one you open, LOL.
We got checked by the rangers and they didn't even mention our barrel, which was on ground in camp, clearly visible. So was the vault, so maybe they just assumed we were in compliance?"
Since I use the Ursack securing method that requires a carabiner, I color code my Ursacks with different colored 'biners. Usually blue for breakfast, silver for lunch and red for dinner.
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07/30/2024 08:35AM |
The biggest difference? - Has anyone seen a report of a nuisance bear encounter on this board from this summer? I know that because of the frequent rains that the forest is probably full of natural bear foods. But, by the end of July there are usually reports of nuisance bears up and down Knife Lake, Lake Polly, the Duncan/Daniels, or Alpine Lake. Here is one case where a lack of reports is a great thing!
Now that I have written it down, perhaps several will appear, but, I think it highly unlikely.
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07/30/2024 01:14PM |
plmn:
I thought I saw a while back where somebody or somebodies were going to try to hunt the Rose/Duncan bear but don't know if they did or if there were any results. That one seemed to be getting pretty bold. "
Bear season opens 1 Sept in Minnesota. I love hunting, but the thought of hauling out a stinky bear in the summer heat is not an inviting one...
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07/30/2024 09:30AM |
Michwall2: "While I haven't tripped yet (leaving in a couple weeks). The bear barrels require that I make some different choices packing food. I have to be a little more efficient.
The biggest difference? - Has anyone seen a report of a nuisance bear encounter on this board from this summer? I know that because of the frequent rains that the forest is probably full of natural bear foods. But, by the end of July there are usually reports of nuisance bears up and down Knife Lake, Lake Polly, the Duncan/Daniels, or Alpine Lake. Here is one case where a lack of reports is a great thing!
Now that I have written it down, perhaps several will appear, but, I think it highly unlikely."
I thought I saw a while back where somebody or somebodies were going to try to hunt the Rose/Duncan bear but don't know if they did or if there were any results. That one seemed to be getting pretty bold.
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07/30/2024 11:12AM |
Michwall2: "
The biggest difference? - Has anyone seen a report of a nuisance bear encounter on this board from this summer? I know that because of the frequent rains that the forest is probably full of natural bear foods. But, by the end of July there are usually reports of nuisance bears up and down Knife Lake, Lake Polly, the Duncan/Daniels, or Alpine Lake. Here is one case where a lack of reports is a great thing!
"
Not a hint of bears anywhere on our trip last week to Alpine and Seagull, which were two problem lakes that prompted the "special" food storage order a couple of years ago. This was a really good thing as I found out after the fact that my newbie tent mate had brought his personal pack into the tent at night with a deodorant stick, scented Gulp worms, toothpaste, baby wipes and a few freeze-dried food packets. Everyone had been instructed pre-trip about NO food in the tent but he figured the freeze-dried food and Gulp worms were in never-opened sealed packets so therefore less of a threat. I suppose there is some truth to that but one still cannot be comfortable with ANY edibles in the tent--bear's noses are incredible! He said he "forgot" about the toiletry items.
We were cooking some really smelly foods over the fire: bacon, steaks, onions, etc. It smelled really good to me all over the campsite and my nose is not anywhere near as good as a bear's. If that wasn't going to draw them in, I can't imagine what would.
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07/30/2024 05:23PM |
OCDave: "I enjoy the challenge of executing the perfect bear-bag hang. I have taken only one trip to the BWCA with this requirement but, I have always attempted hanging my food on all previous trips. Admittedly, some attempts are less than the ideal, but practice makes better.
Every BWCA campsite has a latrine and a fire grate. I hear very few to absolutely zero complaints regarding the inclusion of those features in the wilderness. If bears continue to be a problem requiring food to be hung then a forest service installed food hang at each campsite will be inevitable.
"
I wonder if somebody could design a retractable pole that could hold food packs that would be unobtrusive.
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08/20/2024 08:09AM |
OneMatch: "I just talked to Dan Shirley at Sawbill (I'm putting in there on 9/5) about this as I was planning on renting a rope and pulley system from them. He told me that I could put food in ursacks and put those ursacks in a barrel to carry and the FS is ok with that.
Since I have one time had a bear drag my 30L barrel out of camp, I'm surprised that the FS is ok with that. Kind of a shake my head situation there.
Gotta love the FS."
I have the large bear vault and large ursack in my old no longer approved food pack :)
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10/22/2024 09:58AM |
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10/22/2024 07:08AM |
The BV barrels are bear beacons to me. I repackage and reseal all my food. I pretty much bring dried foods, but not freeze dried. Carrying a pack with BV I can smell the food. I’ve never been able to do that before. I have a sensitive nose, but a bear is way more. The first step in bear protection is to try to keep them out of camp by reducing smells to not have them in camp to begin with.
I’ve been in a lot of gully washer storms. Seems to follow me—-whatever week I choose…do a different week :) Never had an issue with water getting into food. I had 1/2my food ruined by a gulley washer in one of Bear vaults. We also had scouts capsize on another trip, the BV sat in water for a bit and ruined some food and once again wet food in a non airtight barrel stinks and becomes bear attractant…
Weight…I now need 5-6 Bear Vaults to carry my food for my group. That’s a little over 15 pounds of weight in BV. My 2 30L barrels were 8.5 #, almost doubled my weight.
I follow the rules, we have Ursacks and Bear vaults now. I’ve had them for years and slowly converted. I’m just saying there are pluses and minus…I am considering going back to the 30l barrels using an Ursack in them.
T
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10/22/2024 09:56AM |
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10/22/2024 11:39AM |
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10/23/2024 08:15AM |
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10/22/2024 09:26AM |
I recognized the difficulty and inefficiency of hanging so I chose bear resistant canisters for regulation compliance. The transition from hanging to canisters required compromise and innovation but overall has been very satisfying.
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07/21/2024 08:01PM |
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07/31/2024 10:05AM |
bottomtothetap: "Michwall2: "
The biggest difference? - Has anyone seen a report of a nuisance bear encounter on this board from this summer? I know that because of the frequent rains that the forest is probably full of natural bear foods. But, by the end of July there are usually reports of nuisance bears up and down Knife Lake, Lake Polly, the Duncan/Daniels, or Alpine Lake. Here is one case where a lack of reports is a great thing!
"
Not a hint of bears anywhere on our trip last week to Alpine and Seagull, which were two problem lakes that prompted the "special" food storage order a couple of years ago. This was a really good thing as I found out after the fact that my newbie tent mate had brought his personal pack into the tent at night with a deodorant stick, scented Gulp worms, toothpaste, baby wipes and a few freeze-dried food packets. Everyone had been instructed pre-trip about NO food in the tent but he figured the freeze-dried food and Gulp worms were in never-opened sealed packets so therefore less of a threat. I suppose there is some truth to that but one still cannot be comfortable with ANY edibles in the tent--bear's noses are incredible! He said he "forgot" about the toiletry items.
We were cooking some really smelly foods over the fire: bacon, steaks, onions, etc. It smelled really good to me all over the campsite and my nose is not anywhere near as good as a bear's. If that wasn't going to draw them in, I can't imagine what would. "
All the bear talk this year had me thinking while I was out there last week. If bear noses are really that good wouldn't the smells from cooking permeate most everything around camp anyway? After cooking, fishing, etc should my dirty clothes all go in an Ursack? Surely they smell more than sealed food. After I use wipes or toothpaste aren't I going to smell more than the re-sealed packages? Seemed I was bringing a lot of "attractive" smells into the tent regardless of what I did.
So sure, not rewarding the bear with things in a tent is sound practice that protects the next camper. But is it actually any more likely for the bear to come into the tent because of some of those things? I have my doubts.
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10/22/2024 11:42AM |
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07/21/2024 09:17PM |
There have been comments on putting up a cable. Rather than stringing it between trees, what about putting in 2 tall posts with a cable/ metal rod between them? Yes, it would be quite an expense and man power, and I’m not too thrilled with the visual aspects. But no one could say they couldn’t find good trees. We were in Yellowstone several years ago, and spent the night in the back country. They had this kind of hanging pole at the site.
Just an observation- whenever the question “have you seen a ranger on your trip” comes up, there are few yes responses. But there have been a few people that have been checked just on this thread.
We are going back to a different EP in August, and plan on hanging the blue barrel and Ursack again. It’s what we have, so it’s what we’ll use.
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07/22/2024 02:22AM |
Hanging is no match for the allure of the midnight munchies!
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07/06/2024 04:14PM |
On a may 22 trip on the Kawishiwi river my grandson and I had mixed results. We base camped and used both a Ursack and a roll top water proof pack; our pack hang was marginal at best but passed inspection from the two wardens who stopped by. They said they understood that many sites lacked perfect hanging trees. We pointed out a hanging attempt failure (not ours!) about 15 foot of rope with a pulley and an almost full roll of Gorilla tape was wrapped around a broken branch about 25 foot up a mature pine. Yes Gorilla tape. My grandson (170 pounds of rock climbing, swim team ,soccer player, all ripped up 20 year old) had a great time swinging back and forth until the branch broke and we recovered the tangled up " pack hanging" system which came out with us.
I can't say I found the food pack hanging more than a very minor inconvenience and was less of a hassle then I thought it would be (helped by a part mountain goat grandson)
This was not the first time I have seen hunks of cordage left in trees in the BWCA. tarp ropes and food hanging ropes, expect to see a lot more as time goes on.
On the original thread about the regulation I proposed the FS suspend a thin cable between suitable trees for ease of hanging packs in a bear proof manner, still thing it was not such a bad idea.
What are your thoughts?
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10/23/2024 06:33PM |
Its not a problem as we divide them up two BV500 containers to a canoe (one per guy to carry/portage). Everyone likes this a lot more then being the guy hauling through the large blue barrel.
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07/07/2024 08:34AM |
What are your thoughts?"
I think it's a good idea that would save wear and tear on the trees in the campsite and disturb the wilderness less in the long run. But then, I've only been doing this 20 years so what do I know.
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10/23/2024 05:33PM |
My main problem with those is space. I have been building my own menu for 20 years now. The type of foods that I plan are mostly dehydrated. Most are prepared in camp. Even these tend to take more space than you would think. Most of these have a protein (dehydrated ground beef or ground turkey OR packets of tuna and chicken) along with a carb (pasta, dehydrated potatoes, rice, lentils, etc.). These are my least space hungry meals.
Then there are those that are prepared at home and dehydrated for storage. e.g. I have a dehydrated breakfast casserole that most like. I also have breakfast cookies. I do a ramen spaghetti, but even those ramen packets take more space than I would like. I have another spaghetti recipe, but there is no way this one will work.
Lunches are the huge space hog. We do sausage and cheese with crackers the first 2 days. None of that is space friendly. The peanut butter has gotten better with the advent of squeezable peanut butter packs. But the jelly is not space friendly. The tortillas are probably the best items for space.
This year we did one 5 day trip with 5 people. I barely had enough space. The 5 day trip for 2 people was a lot easier. I am thinking of adding a 5th container, but the pack space and weight of just the containers is getting a little ridiculous.
May be we need a newer thread of space saving recipes?
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10/24/2024 09:40AM |
The only thing we used the BV 500's for was buns/tortillas and condiments.
I decided again the ice cream. Went with New York cheesecake, apple pie and cherry pie. All with cool whip!
The concensus was that we will stick with the coolers as they allowed us to stay in compliance and bring steaks, burgers, brats, etc.
PS: This was with temps that got to upper 80's that week. Next year we are moving back to last week of September or first week of October. Will try ice cream then!
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11/02/2024 05:15PM |
Although you can't see it, on the next tree to the right were two ursaks. This was day 2 and they were both filled with dehydrated vacuum sealed food. The bear brushed against the ursaks as it left, but ignored them.
three or four days later, I ran into a pair of conservation officers who had gone in and shot the bear because it had been successfully raiding hanging bags in campsites on Loon Lake. The officers had been double portaging into the south end of Loon. They took their food pack on the first run along with their canoes, and when they came back, the bear was there pulling their food pack out of the canoe.
IMHO, very few people can successfully hang a bag, either because they don't know how or due to the lack of good hanging trees.
p.s. don't know why, but when I posted, none of the pics in my journal were available. Sorry
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10/20/2024 01:07PM |
How about we just had a year with record cancels and fails, reduced usage of the BWCA…maybe that caused alleged reduction in bear encounters…I say alleged because there is no way there was just 10 encounters with bears last year in the BWCAW…
T
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10/18/2024 05:19PM |
FS food storage effects
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10/18/2024 10:56PM |
MReid: "Here's the FS take on it: "The U.S. Forest Service supervises the Superior National Forest and the BWCAW. An agency spokesperson told the Minnesota Star Tribune that visitors have reported fewer than 10 brushes with bears this season. The number is "significantly lower" than previous years, said Joy Liptak VanDrie. The last three seasons have averaged 42."
FS food storage effects "
I call BS on this…I think there has been at least 10 brushes with bears reported on this website and the FB account and we are just a small subset of the BWCAW travelers.
T
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10/19/2024 12:14PM |
timatkn: "MReid: "Here's the FS take on it: "The U.S. Forest Service supervises the Superior National Forest and the BWCAW. An agency spokesperson told the Minnesota Star Tribune that visitors have reported fewer than 10 brushes with bears this season. The number is "significantly lower" than previous years, said Joy Liptak VanDrie. The last three seasons have averaged 42."
FS food storage effects "
I call BS on this…I think there has been at least 10 brushes with bears reported on this website and the FB account and we are just a small subset of the BWCAW travelers.
T "
Even if the numbers are true, I don’t believe it has anything to do with the order. Anecdotally, it appears that most people didn’t change anything they currently do.
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10/20/2024 04:42PM |
Problems with hanging:
- Many sites lack suitable trees and hanging a food pack well away from camp is stupid, inconvenient, and makes it harder to see/hear if a bear is attempting to get the pack.
- Hanging food packs is an eyesore and damages trees.
- There are a number of ways to get injured hanging a food pack.
- Bears can climb trees and the bear that can actually open a secured barrel is the rare exception. There's no reason to believe a barrel hung from a branch is safer than one secured to a tree trunk.
The blue barrels are watertight, float, durable, work far better for packing food than the other supposed bearproof options, and most of us already own them so we aren't excited to shell out for more gear that isn't more effective and impedes our packing routine. I follow the new rules, but I disagree that they help at all. At this point, I'm just hoping some company will make a grizzly-certified blue barrel (cuz we have so many grizzlies...) so I can spend a couple hundred on more gear to help solve a problem caused by sloppy campers.
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10/21/2024 04:15PM |
I'm not happy with the new rules and think the FS needs to actually put some thought into the matter instead of having a knee-jerk reaction. I wouldn't be at all surprised if some kid fresh out of collage with little to no experience with the outdoors came up with this. That or a politician.
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10/21/2024 06:00PM |
By contrast, the bearvaults are clear so you can see what’s in them, can also be used as seats or cooking services, and you can load four of them into a pack.
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10/22/2024 07:58AM |
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10/22/2024 11:30AM |
Tomcat: "timatkn: "
I’ve been in a lot of gully washer storms. Seems to follow me—-whatever week I choose…do a different week :) Never had an issue with water getting into food. I had 1/2my food ruined by a gulley washer in one of Bear vaults. We also had scouts capsize on another trip, the BV sat in water for a bit and ruined some food and once again wet food in a non airtight barrel stinks and becomes bear attractant…
"
My food is individually packaged and waterproofed so I don't require a waterproof canister but I could easily add a foam gasket to a Bear Vault lid if I wanted a water tight seal.
"
I appreciate the idea, I still might try it, but I did contact the makers of the Bear vault after my issues and was warned not to do this (nor adding a rubber gasket as others have advised). With temperature and barometric changes you could possibly create a vacuum effect and be unable to remove the lid. It also voids any warranty. They specifically stated that their bear vaults are not water nor airtight by design.
All my food is wrapped and packaged to be waterproof--whether in a barrel or not. It just that if you have ever had plastic sitting in water somehow it doesn't stay waterproof...whether it's condensation or just failure. You cannot "waterproof" your food nor smell proof with plastic bags alone. At least not on the trips I go on and have been on. It helps, but not an end all to be all. I don't do "normal" trips either. I might be the exception I recognize.
T
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10/22/2024 12:11PM |
timatkn: "Tomcat: "timatkn: "
I’ve been in a lot of gully washer storms. Seems to follow me—-whatever week I choose…do a different week :) Never had an issue with water getting into food. I had 1/2my food ruined by a gulley washer in one of Bear vaults. We also had scouts capsize on another trip, the BV sat in water for a bit and ruined some food and once again wet food in a non airtight barrel stinks and becomes bear attractant…
"
I appreciate the idea, I still might try it, but I did contact the makers of the Bear vault after my issues and was warned not to do this (nor adding a rubber gasket as others have advised). With temperature and barometric changes you could possibly create a vacuum effect and be unable to remove the lid. It also voids any warranty. They specifically stated that their bear vaults are not water nor airtight by design.
All my food is wrapped and packaged to be waterproof--whether in a barrel or not. It just that if you have ever had plastic sitting in water somehow it doesn't stay waterproof...whether it's condensation or just failure. You cannot "waterproof" your food nor smell proof with plastic bags alone. At least not on the trips I go on and have been on. It helps, but not an end all to be all. I don't do "normal" trips either. I might be the exception I recognize.
T"
My preferred canister is the Counter Assault Bear Keg and my food is individually waterproofed so I don't require a waterproof canister. I was bored and made a foam gasket for my Bear Vault out of curiosity. I considered internal pressure variations and could have installed a flush mounted relief valve in the lid but I am doubtful that pressure change would be a significant issue. I have no intention of using a waterproof canister, I just enjoy equipment problem solving.
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10/22/2024 08:57PM |
ockycamper: "We went away from blue barrels to BV500. The blue barrels are much heavier, you couldn’t see what was in them, and the larger ones took up a lot of space in the canoe. The breaking point was nobody wanted to portage the large blue barrels. They would much rather take a couple BV 500 each.
By contrast, the bearvaults are clear so you can see what’s in them, can also be used as seats or cooking services, and you can load four of them into a pack."
Ockycamper, I thought you were going to the Lifetime 55 cooler. Did you change your mind?
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10/23/2024 08:30AM |
I do wish there was a clear water/air tight option. Everything has drawbacks. If I only could do one, I'd stick with the Bearvault.
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10/24/2024 07:02AM |
T
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10/23/2024 07:46AM |
boonie: "I use a liner in my BV (or Ursack) - typically an OPsack or Smelly Proof bag - which are both waterproof and odor-reducing. Same principle as pack liners. No problems."
I am happy all of you have drier trips than me. I have those bags and they are not smell proof nor 100% waterproof. I can still smell food. When you have constant wet trips those bags still leak or else it is condensation. On the majority of trips you are fine though.
Look everyone…I’m not violating the rules, I follow them, I just see issues with the current products as well. It doesn’t matter it’s just an internet discussion. I do have a Devils Advocate issue :) when people post something is great or present it as perfect I can’t help but point out that there may be some issues…I recognize I am not the normal tripper either. We’ll put in at Snowbank at noon and be fishing Raven that day…my needs/wants and tripping style are different. My gear is subjected to different stress…
I do really appreciate the ideas on how to make my current systems work better.
T
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10/23/2024 10:41AM |
HangLoose: "merlyn: " On the original thread about the regulation I proposed the FS suspend a thin cable between suitable trees for ease of hanging packs in a bear proof manner, still thing it was not such a bad idea.
What are your thoughts?"
With 2200 designated campsites in the BWCAW, I really don't see how the Forest Service could possibly find the resources required to maintain a cable between two trees at every site for hanging packs. Nor do I want them to.
Sometimes there just aren't suitable spots to hang the food.
It really isn't that difficult to utilize an approved bear-proof container. Tie a Ursack to a tree. Done.
I do appreciate your removal of the old pulley system that somebody left behind. Thank you for that.
"
+1
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10/23/2024 10:42AM |
billconner: "I think I'll just continue hanging, as I have for 20+ years, imperfect as it may be. I suspect they won't throw me in jail, or even fine me, if with budget cuts I even see a ranger."
Hanging food is totally fine. No jail lol
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07/06/2024 08:40PM |
merlyn: " On the original thread about the regulation I proposed the FS suspend a thin cable between suitable trees for ease of hanging packs in a bear proof manner, still thing it was not such a bad idea.
What are your thoughts?"
With 2200 designated campsites in the BWCAW, I really don't see how the Forest Service could possibly find the resources required to maintain a cable between two trees at every site for hanging packs. Nor do I want them to.
Sometimes there just aren't suitable spots to hang the food.
It really isn't that difficult to utilize an approved bear-proof container. Tie a Ursack to a tree. Done.
I do appreciate your removal of the old pulley system that somebody left behind. Thank you for that.
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07/06/2024 09:01PM |
So, for an additional investment of $165, I now have a compliant system, which I will likely store underneath an overturned canoe like I have done for the last 40+ years without any issues from wild bears or government types.
Total waste of money for experienced BWCA campers. After 40 years of tripping, if you have not figured out how to prevent bears from stealing your food, you should stop tripping to the BWCA.
Sorry to be blunt. Stupid people that don't follow common sense should have to deal with the consequences. Common sense is not necessarily put forth by the government .
Tom
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07/07/2024 02:09AM |
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07/07/2024 06:33AM |
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07/07/2024 10:53AM |
rertel: "" On the original thread about the regulation I proposed the FS suspend a thin cable between suitable trees for ease of hanging packs in a bear proof manner, still thing it was not such a bad idea.
What are your thoughts?"
I think it's a good idea that would save wear and tear on the trees in the campsite and disturb the wilderness less in the long run. But then, I've only been doing this 20 years so what do I know."
While I see the point, I'm not convinced that bears stealing food packs is such a problem as to require the time and expense of stringing cables between trees. That's a lot of time and campsites and money to start with. Then monitoring the campsites and making repairs... a lot of money and I not sure it's worth it.
Also, I think we all are aware of what some people are capable of...and if a cable at any particular campsite survived one season, I'd be surprised. It would be torn down or overused or used to hang three packs or used to string a tarp or the cable would be repurposed by the same people who chop down live trees or try to burn all their trash in the fire pit.
Cynical viewpoint, to be sure.
Mike
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07/07/2024 11:06AM |
Thanks to Merlyn, the O.P. of this thread, for relating their group's experience. Any more stories?
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07/09/2024 10:27PM |
merlyn: " Any comments on the practicality of the food storage rules, thus far this season? Pro or con.
our pack hang was marginal at best but passed inspection from the two wardens who stopped by. They said they understood that many sites lacked perfect hanging trees."
Not picking on ya, so I hope it doesn’t come off that way. This was my argument all along against the new regulations. Many sites just don’t have the proper trees to hang, especially with the recent fires. A lot of people aren’t going to know that until they get there and now they’re only option is to hang but not per the specs needed to actually deter a bear. The intent was good. In practice it is not practical.
There is not any evidence that using the blue barrels was less effective than hanging. Previously, anecdotal and actual data, points to hanging as the least effective method, although mostly due to error or circumstances. It can definitely be effective under the right circumstances. Not trying to argue that, but it takes time to learn, develop the skill, and you actually need trees in the area.
I am glad the FS didn’t fine you and understood the circumstances. That’s how it should be, just has my head shaking on how that was “better” for the bears?
I don’t think the cable idea will fly. Good idea, but too costly and not in budget for the FS, vandalism (more costs), and statistically speaking bears stealing food is a very small issue (not if your the one they steal from or if your the bear that needs to be put down :))—to justify the funding would be tough.
Thanks for sharing your experience.
T
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07/10/2024 05:30PM |
MikeinMpls: "Also, I think we all are aware of what some people are capable of...and if a cable at any particular campsite survived one season, I'd be surprised. It would be torn down or overused or used to hang three packs or used to string a tarp or the cable would be repurposed by the same people who chop down live trees or try to burn all their trash in the fire pit.
Cynical viewpoint, to be sure.
Mike"
I served on a park commission years ago. One of the low points was finding out that some you-know-what attached a tow chain to a water faucet installed in a masonry wall and pulled it out with a vehicle. Nothing surprises me about the lengths vandals will go to compensate for their insecurities.
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07/10/2024 05:05PM |
For the past 20-30 years I've generally tried to comply with the rules by hanging the food pack / food box , but I don't think I've ever gotten one 12 feet off the ground. So . . . . not wanting to get crosswise with a Forest Ranger, I've now invested in Ursacks (we also have a Yosemite approved bear barrel from years past). So we're good. Not sure if they are really necessary, or how well they work, but at least I don't need to worry about being fined. I've never used the Blue Barrel, but I'm willing to bet dollars to donuts that they work just as well, or better than campers trying to hang food from a tree(s).
I kind of like the steel cable idea, but the lawyers would never allow it. Too much liability for the Forest Service should a camper be injured somehow.
I would think that if bears and food were a major problem in the BWCA, then the Forest Service would be installing steel food storage boxes at each campsite. I do not see a need to do that.
So in summary, the new mandatory rules don't allow much flexibility as to how a camper goes about keeping bears from getting at their food. Requiring campers to hang food in a tree versus using a Blue Barrel may very well result in bears getting at more food. Just my opinion.
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07/11/2024 05:49PM |
We are base campers so we think this will work for us as we have one short portage into Red Rock. And the coolers double as a work table to set the stoves or cooking gear on.
We never found he Ursacks to work for us. Before this year we all brought Bearvaults (BV500's) and were happy with those with the exception that you had to portage 6-7 of them per camp for the week.
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10/24/2024 06:32PM |
T
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10/24/2024 06:36PM |
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10/25/2024 07:17AM |
ockycamper: "The big hit was lunches. We fried fish, put them in burritos and had them with cheesecake, apple pie or cherry pie for desert!"
OH My this is forcing me to rethink my trips :) Sounds wonderful!
T
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10/25/2024 10:55AM |
Michwall2: "
...Lunches are the huge space hog. We do sausage and cheese with crackers the first 2 days. None of that is space friendly. The peanut butter has gotten better with the advent of squeezable peanut butter packs. But the jelly is not space friendly.... "
Coughlan Squeeze Tubes can make jelly more space-friendly.
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10/25/2024 10:17AM |
If I was going to bring my 30L barrel I don't think 2 fully-packed Major XLs would fit, so would probably start with one in the barrel and plan to hang another (wrapped in a pack liner) until we ate enough to free up space in the barrel. Much easier to find a good hang option for a small food bag than an entire barrel.
I think we spent about $100 each on the Ursacks, there was a "small business day" sale back in May and we got them direct from the manufacturer.
We have canoe tripped for years with blue barrels without any bear issues. Going to the Ursacks has added some expense and time investment to our trips but I'm not upset about it.
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08/14/2024 03:04PM |
T
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07/18/2024 09:19AM |
25 trips in over the past 20 years and I've never seen a bear up there.
A good friend of mine has Ursacks now so I stuff all our food in that, then inside the barrel. I hope that makes me compliant.
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08/02/2024 05:09AM |
But a camp raiding bear. can and well learn to climb trees and either. chew off the rope or just jump onto the pack pulling it down.
If a bear decides to enter your tent you are in grave danger no matter the reason.
The reason is only known to the bear. No matter how many people think they are doctor Do little.
Nobody can read a bear's mind.
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08/02/2024 10:04AM |
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11/02/2024 07:36PM |
Chicagored: "three or four days later, I ran into a pair of conservation officers who had gone in and shot the bear because it had been successfully raiding hanging bags in campsites on Loon Lake. The officers had been double portaging into the south end of Loon. They took their food pack on the first run along with their canoes, and when they came back, the bear was there pulling their food pack out of the canoe.
"
Never mind, I completely gapped the fact that you said that was in 2018.
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08/13/2024 06:37PM |
Just read of 2 bear attacks. An infant in a tent in Montana - predictably food, etc. "in and around" tent - and one in Smokey Mountains - a bear just charged two hikers. They fought it off with rocks and bear spray.
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08/19/2024 07:30AM |
T
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08/19/2024 07:08AM |
The couple of solo trips I have taken in BWCA I double portaged and had a dedicated food bag while traveling from camp to camp. It would be unattended on one end of the portage or the other for the while I double portaged. I don't dilly-dally on portages and get on with it.
Seem to recall the new regs mentioned that food needed to be hung if unattended even for a short while on portages.
Seems this would cause some gridlock.
Be interested to hear anyones experiences or thoughts on this.
Shug
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08/19/2024 12:36PM |
Since I have one time had a bear drag my 30L barrel out of camp, I'm surprised that the FS is ok with that. Kind of a shake my head situation there.
Gotta love the FS.
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08/31/2024 08:53PM |
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08/31/2024 03:53PM |
Actually I thought pullys were illegal to use in the Wilderness. Are they not mechanical devices?
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08/31/2024 06:33PM |
tmccann: "We’ve seen several trees damaged by people hoisting packs. This inclues broken branches and rub marks on trees used like pulleys.
Actually I thought pullys were illegal to use in the Wilderness. Are they not mechanical devices?"
Cam straps and fishing reels are also mechanized, but used a lot. I think the no mechanical applies to assistance in moving things, like portage wheels, sail boats, and out board motors.
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08/31/2024 09:51PM |
egknuti: "I’m wondering how many people changed their food storage practice based on the new regs? "
My assumption is most people have changed if they used the blue barrels or just hid. Mostly I am sure people keep hanging bear piñata’s and calling it good :)…I’ve seen several in posts on this site as evidence…
Time will tell if it makes any difference, but in my opinion until they crack down on the poor hangers or require everyone to use IGBC containers you will see no difference.
T
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08/31/2024 09:55PM |
billconner: "tmccann: "We’ve seen several trees damaged by people hoisting packs. This inclues broken branches and rub marks on trees used like pulleys.
Actually I thought pullys were illegal to use in the Wilderness. Are they not mechanical devices?"
Cam straps and fishing reels are also mechanized, but used a lot. I think the no mechanical applies to assistance in moving things, like portage wheels, sail boats, and out board motors."
Agree, I found this:
“ MOTORS NOT ALLOWED
With the exception of a few lakes, motors are not allowed in the Boundary Waters. This applies to all motorized equipment: boat motors, electric trolling motors, chainsaws, power augers, generators, pumps, snowmobiles, ATV's, remote control boats and planes, etc. You cannot have them in your possession, whether in use or not.
MECHANIZED TRAVEL NOT ALLOWED
In addition to the BWCA being motor-free, mechanized transportation is not allowed. This includes sail boats, sail boards, paddleboats, pontoon boats, bicycles, wheeled carts, and portage dollies. Mechanical assistance is only permitted over the following: International Boundary, Four-Mile Portage, Vermilion-Trout Lake Portage, Fall-Newton-Pipestone Bay Portages into Basswood Lake, and Prairie Portage.”
A pulley doesn’t seem to be included in any of the items banned. Plus it’s the only way you can really hang effectively to keep a bear out of your food.
T
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09/01/2024 06:37AM |
The two pulleys make it nice for when there are no good branches to use but we didn't need the second one. We found suitable branches at all camps.
One rope with pulley attached tossed up and over the branch with enough free slack to raise and lower the pulley to be able to thread the second rope through it.
Once threaded through raise that pulley to the appropriate height and tie it off to a nearby tree.
At night we would move the barrel and the mostly empty portage pack to the second rope and tie it up and hoist away. Took about 2 minutes per night.
When we went out fishing and exploring we just took our barrel with us. A little extra ballast and lunch was always handy.
Other than the added weight of ropes and pullies I didn't find it to be as much of a pain as I thought it would be.
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09/01/2024 12:54PM |
x2jmorris: "OneMatch: "I just talked to Dan Shirley at Sawbill (I'm putting in there on 9/5) about this as I was planning on renting a rope and pulley system from them. He told me that I could put food in ursacks and put those ursacks in a barrel to carry and the FS is ok with that.
Since I have one time had a bear drag my 30L barrel out of camp, I'm surprised that the FS is ok with that. Kind of a shake my head situation there.
Gotta love the FS."
I have the large bear vault and large ursack in my old no longer approved food pack :)"
Hopefully you properly tie shut your Ursack when it is in there :)