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07/29/2024 07:28AM |
It worked fine, although the ursacks are annoying in that they are in no way color coded so you had to open them to find out which one had dinner.....answer is the last one you open, LOL.
We got checked by the rangers and they didn't even mention our barrel, which was on ground in camp, clearly visible. So was the vault, so maybe they just assumed we were in compliance?
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07/29/2024 12:37PM |
I'll mention yet again that if a bear actually did try to get into the Ursack I wouldn't like it near as much. Getting stuff crushed and slobbered on would not be fun. So the critical stuff goes in the BearVault. I view the Ursack as a convenient compliance item and wouldn't trust it alone to keep my food edible.
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07/11/2024 05:08PM |
Thanks for removing the stuck rope and pulley. We did the same on Snipe Lake a few years back where someone had abandoned them.
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07/11/2024 05:23PM |
straighthairedcurly: "No changes for us. We have been using Ursacks with Smelly Proof bags inside for years already. Gave up hanging food now that so many areas have poor hanging trees. One of the last trips where we hung also resulted in a huge delay to remove one of our rope/pulleys that got horrible jammed 30+ feet up in a pine.
Thanks for removing the stuck rope and pulley. We did the same on Snipe Lake a few years back where someone had abandoned them."
Thanks for removing the ropes SHC and all. It is my pet peeve as a volunteer ranger to leave a campsite we checked and still had ropes remaining in trees. Unfortunately we have to leave them somtimes and have no choice.
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07/16/2024 09:14AM |
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07/29/2024 09:09PM |
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07/10/2024 04:31PM |
timatkn: "merlyn: " Any comments on the practicality of the food storage rules, thus far this season? Pro or con.
our pack hang was marginal at best but passed inspection from the two wardens who stopped by. They said they understood that many sites lacked perfect hanging trees."
Not picking on ya, so I hope it doesn’t come off that way. This was my argument all along against the new regulations. Many sites just don’t have the proper trees to hang, especially with the recent fires. A lot of people aren’t going to know that until they get there and now they’re only option is to hang but not per the specs needed to actually deter a bear. The intent was good. In practice it is not practical.
There is not any evidence that using the blue barrels was less effective than hanging. Previously, anecdotal and actual data, points to hanging as the least effective method, although mostly due to error or circumstances. It can definitely be effective under the right circumstances. Not trying to argue that, but it takes time to learn, develop the skill, and you actually need trees in the area.
I am glad the FS didn’t fine you and understood the circumstances. That’s how it should be, just has my head shaking on how that was “better” for the bears?
I don’t think the cable idea will fly. Good idea, but too costly and not in budget for the FS, vandalism (more costs), and statistically speaking bears stealing food is a very small issue (not if your the one they steal from or if your the bear that needs to be put down :))—to justify the funding would be tough.
Thanks for sharing your experience.
T
"
This^^^
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07/18/2024 04:30PM |
We were checked by rangers. They were very nice and happy we were complying.
Hanging isn't the only correct answer, in fact it often can't be done as described in the regulations in many sites. Not a problem. Store your food items a distance from the camp.
I appreciated Cliff Jacobson's thoughts on the subject which he has shared many times over the years in his books and at speaking engagements. That's what we do.
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07/16/2024 10:30AM |
rertel: "" On the original thread about the regulation I proposed the FS suspend a thin cable between suitable trees for ease of hanging packs in a bear proof manner, still thing it was not such a bad idea.
What are your thoughts?"
I think it's a good idea that would save wear and tear on the trees in the campsite and disturb the wilderness less in the long run. But then, I've only been doing this 20 years so what do I know."
Have you watched how trees move in a strong wind? It might take a pretty strong cable to keep it from snapping as one tree moved south while the other the cable was attached to moved north.
Over the past 45 years we have had 2 bears come into our campsite that were seen. One required a stern "Get out" and the other i chased with a stick and that one came in as we were repacking our gear to move on after eating lunch. Hard to hang the pack when you are trying to put it in the canoe.
Last week my wife and I were checked by a ranger as we were out fishing. A pleasant encounter and we told them which campsite we were staying at. Our food packs were hung from the only available limb and could not have been 12 feet off the ground or 6 feet from the tree but there was no follow up on that. We tried the best we could with the resource available.
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07/29/2024 04:19PM |
Every BWCA campsite has a latrine and a fire grate. I hear very few to absolutely zero complaints regarding the inclusion of those features in the wilderness. If bears continue to be a problem requiring food to be hung then a forest service installed food hang at each campsite will be inevitable.
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07/29/2024 10:28PM |
dogwoodgirl: "Just got back from 2 weeks out, first time with the new regs. I have a barrel and harness that I love, so I stuffed it full of ursacks. They take up space, so we also needed to bring my vault. Put the days food in the vault along with things we needed every day, like dish soap, toothpaste, etc.
It worked fine, although the ursacks are annoying in that they are in no way color coded so you had to open them to find out which one had dinner.....answer is the last one you open, LOL.
We got checked by the rangers and they didn't even mention our barrel, which was on ground in camp, clearly visible. So was the vault, so maybe they just assumed we were in compliance?"
Since I use the Ursack securing method that requires a carabiner, I color code my Ursacks with different colored 'biners. Usually blue for breakfast, silver for lunch and red for dinner.
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07/30/2024 08:35AM |
The biggest difference? - Has anyone seen a report of a nuisance bear encounter on this board from this summer? I know that because of the frequent rains that the forest is probably full of natural bear foods. But, by the end of July there are usually reports of nuisance bears up and down Knife Lake, Lake Polly, the Duncan/Daniels, or Alpine Lake. Here is one case where a lack of reports is a great thing!
Now that I have written it down, perhaps several will appear, but, I think it highly unlikely.
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07/30/2024 01:14PM |
plmn:
I thought I saw a while back where somebody or somebodies were going to try to hunt the Rose/Duncan bear but don't know if they did or if there were any results. That one seemed to be getting pretty bold. "
Bear season opens 1 Sept in Minnesota. I love hunting, but the thought of hauling out a stinky bear in the summer heat is not an inviting one...
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07/30/2024 09:30AM |
Michwall2: "While I haven't tripped yet (leaving in a couple weeks). The bear barrels require that I make some different choices packing food. I have to be a little more efficient.
The biggest difference? - Has anyone seen a report of a nuisance bear encounter on this board from this summer? I know that because of the frequent rains that the forest is probably full of natural bear foods. But, by the end of July there are usually reports of nuisance bears up and down Knife Lake, Lake Polly, the Duncan/Daniels, or Alpine Lake. Here is one case where a lack of reports is a great thing!
Now that I have written it down, perhaps several will appear, but, I think it highly unlikely."
I thought I saw a while back where somebody or somebodies were going to try to hunt the Rose/Duncan bear but don't know if they did or if there were any results. That one seemed to be getting pretty bold.
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07/06/2024 04:14PM |
On a may 22 trip on the Kawishiwi river my grandson and I had mixed results. We base camped and used both a Ursack and a roll top water proof pack; our pack hang was marginal at best but passed inspection from the two wardens who stopped by. They said they understood that many sites lacked perfect hanging trees. We pointed out a hanging attempt failure (not ours!) about 15 foot of rope with a pulley and an almost full roll of Gorilla tape was wrapped around a broken branch about 25 foot up a mature pine. Yes Gorilla tape. My grandson (170 pounds of rock climbing, swim team ,soccer player, all ripped up 20 year old) had a great time swinging back and forth until the branch broke and we recovered the tangled up " pack hanging" system which came out with us.
I can't say I found the food pack hanging more than a very minor inconvenience and was less of a hassle then I thought it would be (helped by a part mountain goat grandson)
This was not the first time I have seen hunks of cordage left in trees in the BWCA. tarp ropes and food hanging ropes, expect to see a lot more as time goes on.
On the original thread about the regulation I proposed the FS suspend a thin cable between suitable trees for ease of hanging packs in a bear proof manner, still thing it was not such a bad idea.
What are your thoughts?
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07/07/2024 08:34AM |
What are your thoughts?"
I think it's a good idea that would save wear and tear on the trees in the campsite and disturb the wilderness less in the long run. But then, I've only been doing this 20 years so what do I know.
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08/14/2024 03:04PM |
T
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07/21/2024 08:01PM |
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07/21/2024 09:17PM |
There have been comments on putting up a cable. Rather than stringing it between trees, what about putting in 2 tall posts with a cable/ metal rod between them? Yes, it would be quite an expense and man power, and I’m not too thrilled with the visual aspects. But no one could say they couldn’t find good trees. We were in Yellowstone several years ago, and spent the night in the back country. They had this kind of hanging pole at the site.
Just an observation- whenever the question “have you seen a ranger on your trip” comes up, there are few yes responses. But there have been a few people that have been checked just on this thread.
We are going back to a different EP in August, and plan on hanging the blue barrel and Ursack again. It’s what we have, so it’s what we’ll use.
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07/22/2024 02:22AM |
Hanging is no match for the allure of the midnight munchies!
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07/30/2024 11:12AM |
Michwall2: "
The biggest difference? - Has anyone seen a report of a nuisance bear encounter on this board from this summer? I know that because of the frequent rains that the forest is probably full of natural bear foods. But, by the end of July there are usually reports of nuisance bears up and down Knife Lake, Lake Polly, the Duncan/Daniels, or Alpine Lake. Here is one case where a lack of reports is a great thing!
"
Not a hint of bears anywhere on our trip last week to Alpine and Seagull, which were two problem lakes that prompted the "special" food storage order a couple of years ago. This was a really good thing as I found out after the fact that my newbie tent mate had brought his personal pack into the tent at night with a deodorant stick, scented Gulp worms, toothpaste, baby wipes and a few freeze-dried food packets. Everyone had been instructed pre-trip about NO food in the tent but he figured the freeze-dried food and Gulp worms were in never-opened sealed packets so therefore less of a threat. I suppose there is some truth to that but one still cannot be comfortable with ANY edibles in the tent--bear's noses are incredible! He said he "forgot" about the toiletry items.
We were cooking some really smelly foods over the fire: bacon, steaks, onions, etc. It smelled really good to me all over the campsite and my nose is not anywhere near as good as a bear's. If that wasn't going to draw them in, I can't imagine what would.
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07/30/2024 05:23PM |
OCDave: "I enjoy the challenge of executing the perfect bear-bag hang. I have taken only one trip to the BWCA with this requirement but, I have always attempted hanging my food on all previous trips. Admittedly, some attempts are less than the ideal, but practice makes better.
Every BWCA campsite has a latrine and a fire grate. I hear very few to absolutely zero complaints regarding the inclusion of those features in the wilderness. If bears continue to be a problem requiring food to be hung then a forest service installed food hang at each campsite will be inevitable.
"
I wonder if somebody could design a retractable pole that could hold food packs that would be unobtrusive.
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07/31/2024 10:05AM |
bottomtothetap: "Michwall2: "
The biggest difference? - Has anyone seen a report of a nuisance bear encounter on this board from this summer? I know that because of the frequent rains that the forest is probably full of natural bear foods. But, by the end of July there are usually reports of nuisance bears up and down Knife Lake, Lake Polly, the Duncan/Daniels, or Alpine Lake. Here is one case where a lack of reports is a great thing!
"
Not a hint of bears anywhere on our trip last week to Alpine and Seagull, which were two problem lakes that prompted the "special" food storage order a couple of years ago. This was a really good thing as I found out after the fact that my newbie tent mate had brought his personal pack into the tent at night with a deodorant stick, scented Gulp worms, toothpaste, baby wipes and a few freeze-dried food packets. Everyone had been instructed pre-trip about NO food in the tent but he figured the freeze-dried food and Gulp worms were in never-opened sealed packets so therefore less of a threat. I suppose there is some truth to that but one still cannot be comfortable with ANY edibles in the tent--bear's noses are incredible! He said he "forgot" about the toiletry items.
We were cooking some really smelly foods over the fire: bacon, steaks, onions, etc. It smelled really good to me all over the campsite and my nose is not anywhere near as good as a bear's. If that wasn't going to draw them in, I can't imagine what would. "
All the bear talk this year had me thinking while I was out there last week. If bear noses are really that good wouldn't the smells from cooking permeate most everything around camp anyway? After cooking, fishing, etc should my dirty clothes all go in an Ursack? Surely they smell more than sealed food. After I use wipes or toothpaste aren't I going to smell more than the re-sealed packages? Seemed I was bringing a lot of "attractive" smells into the tent regardless of what I did.
So sure, not rewarding the bear with things in a tent is sound practice that protects the next camper. But is it actually any more likely for the bear to come into the tent because of some of those things? I have my doubts.
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08/19/2024 12:36PM |
Since I have one time had a bear drag my 30L barrel out of camp, I'm surprised that the FS is ok with that. Kind of a shake my head situation there.
Gotta love the FS.
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08/20/2024 08:09AM |
OneMatch: "I just talked to Dan Shirley at Sawbill (I'm putting in there on 9/5) about this as I was planning on renting a rope and pulley system from them. He told me that I could put food in ursacks and put those ursacks in a barrel to carry and the FS is ok with that.
Since I have one time had a bear drag my 30L barrel out of camp, I'm surprised that the FS is ok with that. Kind of a shake my head situation there.
Gotta love the FS."
I have the large bear vault and large ursack in my old no longer approved food pack :)
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08/31/2024 06:33PM |
tmccann: "We’ve seen several trees damaged by people hoisting packs. This inclues broken branches and rub marks on trees used like pulleys.
Actually I thought pullys were illegal to use in the Wilderness. Are they not mechanical devices?"
Cam straps and fishing reels are also mechanized, but used a lot. I think the no mechanical applies to assistance in moving things, like portage wheels, sail boats, and out board motors.
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08/31/2024 09:51PM |
egknuti: "I’m wondering how many people changed their food storage practice based on the new regs? "
My assumption is most people have changed if they used the blue barrels or just hid. Mostly I am sure people keep hanging bear piñata’s and calling it good :)…I’ve seen several in posts on this site as evidence…
Time will tell if it makes any difference, but in my opinion until they crack down on the poor hangers or require everyone to use IGBC containers you will see no difference.
T
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08/31/2024 09:55PM |
billconner: "tmccann: "We’ve seen several trees damaged by people hoisting packs. This inclues broken branches and rub marks on trees used like pulleys.
Actually I thought pullys were illegal to use in the Wilderness. Are they not mechanical devices?"
Cam straps and fishing reels are also mechanized, but used a lot. I think the no mechanical applies to assistance in moving things, like portage wheels, sail boats, and out board motors."
Agree, I found this:
“ MOTORS NOT ALLOWED
With the exception of a few lakes, motors are not allowed in the Boundary Waters. This applies to all motorized equipment: boat motors, electric trolling motors, chainsaws, power augers, generators, pumps, snowmobiles, ATV's, remote control boats and planes, etc. You cannot have them in your possession, whether in use or not.
MECHANIZED TRAVEL NOT ALLOWED
In addition to the BWCA being motor-free, mechanized transportation is not allowed. This includes sail boats, sail boards, paddleboats, pontoon boats, bicycles, wheeled carts, and portage dollies. Mechanical assistance is only permitted over the following: International Boundary, Four-Mile Portage, Vermilion-Trout Lake Portage, Fall-Newton-Pipestone Bay Portages into Basswood Lake, and Prairie Portage.”
A pulley doesn’t seem to be included in any of the items banned. Plus it’s the only way you can really hang effectively to keep a bear out of your food.
T
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09/01/2024 06:37AM |
The two pulleys make it nice for when there are no good branches to use but we didn't need the second one. We found suitable branches at all camps.
One rope with pulley attached tossed up and over the branch with enough free slack to raise and lower the pulley to be able to thread the second rope through it.
Once threaded through raise that pulley to the appropriate height and tie it off to a nearby tree.
At night we would move the barrel and the mostly empty portage pack to the second rope and tie it up and hoist away. Took about 2 minutes per night.
When we went out fishing and exploring we just took our barrel with us. A little extra ballast and lunch was always handy.
Other than the added weight of ropes and pullies I didn't find it to be as much of a pain as I thought it would be.
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09/01/2024 12:54PM |
x2jmorris: "OneMatch: "I just talked to Dan Shirley at Sawbill (I'm putting in there on 9/5) about this as I was planning on renting a rope and pulley system from them. He told me that I could put food in ursacks and put those ursacks in a barrel to carry and the FS is ok with that.
Since I have one time had a bear drag my 30L barrel out of camp, I'm surprised that the FS is ok with that. Kind of a shake my head situation there.
Gotta love the FS."
I have the large bear vault and large ursack in my old no longer approved food pack :)"
Hopefully you properly tie shut your Ursack when it is in there :)
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07/06/2024 08:40PM |
merlyn: " On the original thread about the regulation I proposed the FS suspend a thin cable between suitable trees for ease of hanging packs in a bear proof manner, still thing it was not such a bad idea.
What are your thoughts?"
With 2200 designated campsites in the BWCAW, I really don't see how the Forest Service could possibly find the resources required to maintain a cable between two trees at every site for hanging packs. Nor do I want them to.
Sometimes there just aren't suitable spots to hang the food.
It really isn't that difficult to utilize an approved bear-proof container. Tie a Ursack to a tree. Done.
I do appreciate your removal of the old pulley system that somebody left behind. Thank you for that.
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07/06/2024 09:01PM |
So, for an additional investment of $165, I now have a compliant system, which I will likely store underneath an overturned canoe like I have done for the last 40+ years without any issues from wild bears or government types.
Total waste of money for experienced BWCA campers. After 40 years of tripping, if you have not figured out how to prevent bears from stealing your food, you should stop tripping to the BWCA.
Sorry to be blunt. Stupid people that don't follow common sense should have to deal with the consequences. Common sense is not necessarily put forth by the government .
Tom
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07/07/2024 02:09AM |
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07/07/2024 06:33AM |
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07/07/2024 10:53AM |
rertel: "" On the original thread about the regulation I proposed the FS suspend a thin cable between suitable trees for ease of hanging packs in a bear proof manner, still thing it was not such a bad idea.
What are your thoughts?"
I think it's a good idea that would save wear and tear on the trees in the campsite and disturb the wilderness less in the long run. But then, I've only been doing this 20 years so what do I know."
While I see the point, I'm not convinced that bears stealing food packs is such a problem as to require the time and expense of stringing cables between trees. That's a lot of time and campsites and money to start with. Then monitoring the campsites and making repairs... a lot of money and I not sure it's worth it.
Also, I think we all are aware of what some people are capable of...and if a cable at any particular campsite survived one season, I'd be surprised. It would be torn down or overused or used to hang three packs or used to string a tarp or the cable would be repurposed by the same people who chop down live trees or try to burn all their trash in the fire pit.
Cynical viewpoint, to be sure.
Mike
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07/07/2024 11:06AM |
Thanks to Merlyn, the O.P. of this thread, for relating their group's experience. Any more stories?
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07/09/2024 10:27PM |
merlyn: " Any comments on the practicality of the food storage rules, thus far this season? Pro or con.
our pack hang was marginal at best but passed inspection from the two wardens who stopped by. They said they understood that many sites lacked perfect hanging trees."
Not picking on ya, so I hope it doesn’t come off that way. This was my argument all along against the new regulations. Many sites just don’t have the proper trees to hang, especially with the recent fires. A lot of people aren’t going to know that until they get there and now they’re only option is to hang but not per the specs needed to actually deter a bear. The intent was good. In practice it is not practical.
There is not any evidence that using the blue barrels was less effective than hanging. Previously, anecdotal and actual data, points to hanging as the least effective method, although mostly due to error or circumstances. It can definitely be effective under the right circumstances. Not trying to argue that, but it takes time to learn, develop the skill, and you actually need trees in the area.
I am glad the FS didn’t fine you and understood the circumstances. That’s how it should be, just has my head shaking on how that was “better” for the bears?
I don’t think the cable idea will fly. Good idea, but too costly and not in budget for the FS, vandalism (more costs), and statistically speaking bears stealing food is a very small issue (not if your the one they steal from or if your the bear that needs to be put down :))—to justify the funding would be tough.
Thanks for sharing your experience.
T
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07/10/2024 05:30PM |
MikeinMpls: "Also, I think we all are aware of what some people are capable of...and if a cable at any particular campsite survived one season, I'd be surprised. It would be torn down or overused or used to hang three packs or used to string a tarp or the cable would be repurposed by the same people who chop down live trees or try to burn all their trash in the fire pit.
Cynical viewpoint, to be sure.
Mike"
I served on a park commission years ago. One of the low points was finding out that some you-know-what attached a tow chain to a water faucet installed in a masonry wall and pulled it out with a vehicle. Nothing surprises me about the lengths vandals will go to compensate for their insecurities.
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07/10/2024 05:05PM |
For the past 20-30 years I've generally tried to comply with the rules by hanging the food pack / food box , but I don't think I've ever gotten one 12 feet off the ground. So . . . . not wanting to get crosswise with a Forest Ranger, I've now invested in Ursacks (we also have a Yosemite approved bear barrel from years past). So we're good. Not sure if they are really necessary, or how well they work, but at least I don't need to worry about being fined. I've never used the Blue Barrel, but I'm willing to bet dollars to donuts that they work just as well, or better than campers trying to hang food from a tree(s).
I kind of like the steel cable idea, but the lawyers would never allow it. Too much liability for the Forest Service should a camper be injured somehow.
I would think that if bears and food were a major problem in the BWCA, then the Forest Service would be installing steel food storage boxes at each campsite. I do not see a need to do that.
So in summary, the new mandatory rules don't allow much flexibility as to how a camper goes about keeping bears from getting at their food. Requiring campers to hang food in a tree versus using a Blue Barrel may very well result in bears getting at more food. Just my opinion.
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07/11/2024 05:49PM |
We are base campers so we think this will work for us as we have one short portage into Red Rock. And the coolers double as a work table to set the stoves or cooking gear on.
We never found he Ursacks to work for us. Before this year we all brought Bearvaults (BV500's) and were happy with those with the exception that you had to portage 6-7 of them per camp for the week.
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07/18/2024 09:19AM |
25 trips in over the past 20 years and I've never seen a bear up there.
A good friend of mine has Ursacks now so I stuff all our food in that, then inside the barrel. I hope that makes me compliant.
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08/02/2024 05:09AM |
But a camp raiding bear. can and well learn to climb trees and either. chew off the rope or just jump onto the pack pulling it down.
If a bear decides to enter your tent you are in grave danger no matter the reason.
The reason is only known to the bear. No matter how many people think they are doctor Do little.
Nobody can read a bear's mind.
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08/02/2024 10:04AM |
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08/13/2024 06:37PM |
Just read of 2 bear attacks. An infant in a tent in Montana - predictably food, etc. "in and around" tent - and one in Smokey Mountains - a bear just charged two hikers. They fought it off with rocks and bear spray.
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08/19/2024 07:30AM |
T
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08/19/2024 07:08AM |
The couple of solo trips I have taken in BWCA I double portaged and had a dedicated food bag while traveling from camp to camp. It would be unattended on one end of the portage or the other for the while I double portaged. I don't dilly-dally on portages and get on with it.
Seem to recall the new regs mentioned that food needed to be hung if unattended even for a short while on portages.
Seems this would cause some gridlock.
Be interested to hear anyones experiences or thoughts on this.
Shug
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08/31/2024 08:53PM |
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08/31/2024 03:53PM |
Actually I thought pullys were illegal to use in the Wilderness. Are they not mechanical devices?