|
Boundary Waters Quetico Forum :: Listening Point - General Discussion :: Winds said no
|
| Author | Message Text | ||
| Barca |
AluminumBarge: "In that case I would agree they won’t allow you in. The situation Janice talked about, and I think the BWCA would agree with, is in the case of a safety issue. If the wind is blowing 40 mph all day, for example, they don’t expect you to risk it. Your situation, while unfortunate, doesn’t involve a safety concern for the paddler. " It comes down to the letter versus the spirit of the law, and really, which side a ranger wants to come down on. Could you be ticketed/fined for going in on a day that you don't have a permit for? Yes. Would a ranger do so if you were simply being "safe"? Maybe. That being said, it could certainly be viewed as inconsiderate of others if you go in on the "wrong" day for any reason at all. There's a reason that permits are in place after all. Wind/fires/many other issues are simply part of the risk we all take. Ignoring the law due to weather related events is questionable at best. |
||
| Chieflonewatie |
|
||
| martian |
Try again tomorrow. Cheers! martian |
||
| martian |
bottomtothetap: "Technical question: Is there potential trouble for you by entering a day later if you were not able to enter on the day of your permit due to unsafe conditions? No trouble. Just a change up on a plan and a hotel room to reset. Life happens when you make a plan. A loaded Trillium in the wind is ok but waves are a problem. Today was to much. |
||
| martian |
|
||
| AceAceAce |
Good call not going! On the question of the permit dates, after Oct 1st, you fill out at the entry point, so you can go whenever. |
||
| martian |
AceAceAce: "I came out of there today. It was rough. Was coming out yesterday but hit the strong south winds in the narrow channel and physically couldn't paddle it. Ended up hanging out overnight and leaving this morning. The west winds were manageable from where I stayed, but made for a miserable night in a west facing campsite. I may have been parked near you last night. I was for sure by a Flying Moose sticker from Wisconsin. Did you see the pickup the bear got into? I assume it was a bear due to the food wrappers in the lot. It pulled the rear sliding window out. |
||
| airmorse |
|
||
| 8whitecaps |
airmorse: "A ranger fatality while attempting a rescue? " https://www.startribune.com/park-ranger-dies-trying-to-rescue-family-in-voyageurs-national-park/601158216 |
||
| TreeBear |
|
||
| billconner |
8whitecaps: "airmorse: "A ranger fatality while attempting a rescue? " Paywall. Summary? |
||
| chessie |
martian: "To my entry day today. I felt it would unsafe with my lack of skills to force the issue. Found several blow downs across the road I had to push off. No saw with the fire ban. Hope everyone was safe out there. Tough decision but good call. I hope you were able to enjoy a "plan B"! |
||
| kgkicker |
|
||
| noodle |
billconner: "Paywall. Summary?" A National Park Service ranger died Sunday attempting to help a family stranded on an island in Voyageurs National Park. St. Louis County Sheriff Gordon Ramsay said in a phone call that the ranger, who had experience and was close to retirement, was trying to rescue a father and his two sons whose boat had been pushed ashore on an island because of the high winds. The winds on Namakan Lake, at the Canadian border, whipped up waves that reached between 5 and 6 feet Sunday morning. Shortly after the ranger evacuated the family from the island, the Park Service boat they were in took on water and capsized, Ramsay said. All four people were thrown into the water, but the family was able to swim to safety, according to a Park Service release. The ranger did not surface. His body was found at 3:20 p.m., after a three-hour search, according to the Park Service. ”One of the rangers that was out there said he has never seen conditions as wild as they were earlier today with the winds,” Ramsay said. The ranger, who authorities plan to publicly identify Monday, was known in the community and volunteered to provide emergency medical services in the area, Ramsay said. ”He was just all about helping others and that’s what he died doing was helping others,” Ramsay said. “He had a servant’s heart by all accounts.” |
||
| AceAceAce |
martian Mine was a white Jeep. I didn't notice the truck. I was pretty beat up after not sleeping much thanks to the winds overnight and didn't look around much. Crazy stuff! I always manage to have a few wrappers and such but try not to leave anything enticing in the vehicle for the bears. |
||
| cowdoc |
|
||
| AluminumBarge |
kgkicker: "No quotas in October so doesn't matter. If you canceled May - September you would technically have to get a new permit if one was available." I’m not so sure about that. I recall talking to Janice at the Cache Bay ranger station many years ago. We were talking about the prior year when we happened upon a group that capsized near American Point trying to get to Cache Bay. She told us never to risk going out just to make your entry date. If the weather keeps you from making it they would understand and issue the permit for the next day that was safe to travel. I know this is the Q instead of the BWCA, but I would think most rangers, whether US or Canada, have the same attitude. |
||
| IBFLY |
bottomtothetap: "Technical question: Is there potential trouble for you by entering a day later if you were not able to enter on the day of your permit due to unsafe conditions? Since it's after October 1st, one could simply fill out a new self issue permit at the entry point the following day. No fees. Nothing lost but a day. |
||
| afromaniac |
AluminumBarge: "kgkicker: "No quotas in October so doesn't matter. If you canceled May - September you would technically have to get a new permit if one was available." it is absolutely true in BWCA that your permit is for that day and that day only, had to stay back a day for a minor family medical emergency one year and the ranger at Ely let me know in the nicest way possible that my permit was not good the day after, no matter what the issue. our whole trip had to be reworked. that being said if I am at the entry point already and i've already checked in i dunno who needs to know that I didn't put in until the morning, i don't think they'd do anything if you somehow got caught |
||
| bottomtothetap |
In my mind, you made the right decision and if I were the ranger I would reward your good judgement by congratulating you on using proper discretion and wishing you a great trip. Just wondered if anyone else experienced a similar situation and how it played out. |
||
| alpinebrule |
|
||
| AluminumBarge |
Barca: "AluminumBarge: "In that case I would agree they won’t allow you in. The situation Janice talked about, and I think the BWCA would agree with, is in the case of a safety issue. If the wind is blowing 40 mph all day, for example, they don’t expect you to risk it. Your situation, while unfortunate, doesn’t involve a safety concern for the paddler. " I see your point but disagree. It’s a safety issue. And I doubt many would have any problem with it. I’m not talking about a 10 - 15 mph wind here, I’m talking about huge rolling whitecaps on Sag. And I’ll still go by what a Quetico ranger for 30+ years of experience has to say about it. If you know her story you know she has seen paddlers die trying to cross that lake. Saying you should stick to the letter of the law in extreme circumstances is being too much of a stickler in my opinion. |
||
| fenrirrr |
I do think there's something of a slippery slope in cherrypicking rules to follow based on our convenience. At the end of the day, everything about wilderness recreation is a compromise between access and conservation. We should be mindful of the impacts our choices have on the place and others seeking to experience it. |
||
| A1t2o |
People seem to be making the argument that it is either to go in on the date of the permit OR wait and enter on the wrong date. Those are not the only two options. Canceling the trip shouldn't be an option either, but at least making an attempt at doing it the right way should be a bare minimum. I think a ranger would be far more forgiving if they caught you and you had at least tried to do it the right way but there were no permits available. You might have to change your plans, go to a different EP, and buy a new map, but there are ways of not giving up on your trip that are not against the rules. Being inflexible or not bothering to even check is not being safe, that's just stubbornness or laziness. |
||
| AluminumBarge |
|