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Boundary Waters Quetico Forum :: Listening Point - General Discussion :: How much will future employee cuts in the USFS affect the BWCA
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| Pinetree |
Camp site maintenance, portage trails etc. Fire suppression and readiness? Condition of the BWCA in the Future? |
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| TreeBear |
In the end though, this is all really bad for so many of our treasured public spaces. |
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| Findian |
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| Pinetree |
Findian: "Hopefully the day will come that the person(s) running the FS will turn it around. Yes, back into a money-making department. It can be done again" Cost of fighting fires is extremely high and with changing climate it will keep increasing. All people benefit from fire suppression just forest users. |
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| timatkn |
LindenTree: "timatkn: "A little off topic, but our Scout Troop will be doing a trip this summer. We typically cover 40-70 miles in 6 days (depending on the crew). We do portage clearing and campsite clean up already as this is just what has been instilled in the scouts but maybe we should be officially working with the FS? That way they know where we are going to be and they can strategically deploy their smaller staff. Also, maybe use us to hit a specific area on our route? Thanks very much! Once we finalize our route, I’ll contact Cathy. T |
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| Ahahn366 |
YaMarVa: "Pinetree: "It won't happen but, like a $10.00 annual stamp or pass to go into the BWCA alone would raise over 2 million dollars easy. So cheap, and remedy is so easy to fix." Probably not likely, but something we could do with minimal investment would be to start a bwca.com maintenance crew. We have several members that have experience interacting with the FS and their ways that could help in leadership roles. |
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| billconner |
article |
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| timatkn |
I don't know where to start on this though? Any ideas on who to contact? Anyone done this before? T |
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| arctic |
TrailZen: "arctic: "A lot of portage maintenance could be done by groups and individuals. Why not waive the $16.00 per person permit fee in exchange for clearing specific portages? Might only be a single portage or several per group and skill level depending on agreement. Nippers and hand saws can get a lot of work done and are reasonably safe. Could even have an online sign-up list to keep track of maintenance and needs." I agree. I had to sign multiple agreements with the State of Minnesota for specific volunteer projects. Feds might even require more. Ideally, basic portage maintenance should only require a simple waiver like downhill ski areas use. Legislation prohibits chainsaws in wilderness areas and few people, if any, have the big cross-cut saws used by FS crews in the BWCAW, so we're not talking big risks here. |
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| TrailZen |
arctic: "A lot of portage maintenance could be done by groups and individuals. Why not waive the $16.00 per person permit fee in exchange for clearing specific portages? Might only be a single portage or several per group and skill level depending on agreement. Nippers and hand saws can get a lot of work done and are reasonably safe. Could even have an online sign-up list to keep track of maintenance and needs." I'm lucky enough to live in an area where the local USFS District (Pisgah District of Pisgah National Forest in western NC) has about 400 miles of trail and around 400 volunteers. Volunteer groups include Trout Unlimited, Backcountry Horsemen of Pisgah, Carolina Mountain Club, Pisgah Area SORBA, Pisgah Hikers, Carolina Climbers Coalition, Pisgah Conservancy, and several others. There are also individuals who volunteer their time on the District. The USFS, however, requires that all volunteers have an approved Volunteer Agreement with the district upon which they volunteer. This can be an individual or an organizational Volunteer Agreement. And some volunteer tasks require USFS-approved training. While clearing portages in lieu of paying a fee would be nice, it's going to be tough to administer because of the training & Volunteer Agreement requirements. TZ |
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| YaMarVa |
Pinetree: "It won't happen but, like a $10.00 annual stamp or pass to go into the BWCA alone would raise over 2 million dollars easy. So cheap, and remedy is so easy to fix." Interesting idea. The pheasant stamp in MN has raised about $300k annually since 1983. |
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| Pinetree |
Also, so much expense is in the rest of the Superior National Forest, road maintenance, ATV usage and damage control and enforcement. There is so many costs to running such a large area we don't realize often all the costs, I don't. Yes, even filling their vehicles with gas cost about $100 dollars. That is quite a few permits. |
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| Pinetree |
Ahahn366: "YaMarVa: "Pinetree: "It won't happen but, like a $10.00 annual stamp or pass to go into the BWCA alone would raise over 2 million dollars easy. So cheap, and remedy is so easy to fix." I have been involved with volunteer crews, idea is good, but after once or twice you lose most if not all volunteers. Give praise to the Pow Wow crew tho. |
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| Pinetree |
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| Pinetree |
YaMarVa: "Pinetree: "It won't happen but, like a $10.00 annual stamp or pass to go into the BWCA alone would raise over 2 million dollars easy. So cheap, and remedy is so easy to fix." sorry, I edited just a tad as you commented, like your response |
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| Pinetree |
YaMarVa: "I'd even submit artwork for the stamp, it would be a fun annual competition. " That would be neat, and I know like duck stamp winners many people would want a replica of the painting and just think if you collected the stamps from day one. It would be worth something to some. The first stamp painting would be invaluable. I could just see in your mind and others what the theme or the first picture would look like. Probably something from the past? |
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| YaMarVa |
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| LindenTree |
timatkn: "A little off topic, but our Scout Troop will be doing a trip this summer. We typically cover 40-70 miles in 6 days (depending on the crew). We do portage clearing and campsite clean up already as this is just what has been instilled in the scouts but maybe we should be officially working with the FS? That way they know where we are going to be and they can strategically deploy their smaller staff. Also, maybe use us to hit a specific area on our route? If this lady can't help you she will know who can. I worked wih her a little, I can't remember her official title but I beleive she is in charge of the wilderness rec program for the SNF. She goes by Cathy cathleen.quinn@usda.gov At a minimum you would have to sign a volunteer agreement. They may also want to give you guidance on how to brush back portages. It may seem simple but Tofte RD can be anal about it. Any branch that is cut has to be taken all the way back to the trunk/bole of the tree and you need to low stump everything. I got talked to a few times for my lack understanding by the rangers out of Tofte. |
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| YaMarVa |
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| arctic |
TreeBear: "We just talked about this at one of our work meetings the other day. I think the consensus was really productive: if the Forest Service has fewer staff and fewer resources, it will make all of the organizations connected to the BW all the more important. Volunteers become more important. They can't replace the managing organization, but they can supplement some of the important work. A lot of portage maintenance could be done by groups and individuals. Why not waive the $16.00 per person permit fee in exchange for clearing specific portages? Might only be a single portage or several per group and skill level depending on agreement. Nippers and hand saws can get a lot of work done and are reasonably safe. Could even have an online sign-up list to keep track of maintenance and needs. |
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| Pinetree |
The U.S. Forest Service is facing an expected $500 million budget shortfall that will affect recreation areas including the Boundary Waters Canoe Area Wilderness. A hiring freeze is in effect ahead of next summer, when the forest managers normally employ temporary workers to help with upkeep. They handle maintenance work like clearing downed trees on portages, digging latrines and removing trash left at forest campsites. Some also work the front desks at the forest’s five ranger district offices. Superior National Forest Supervisor Tom Hall said some of the routine work will fall on 52 permanent seasonal staff members, but it’ll be prioritized. “One of our favorite words now is ‘triage,’” Hall said, “Where the most urgent need is, we shift our resources to meet that need. Sometimes you reach that capacity sooner when you have fewer people. We are working through that.” While forest leaders say they are prepared to manage with less, one longtime outfitter suspects campers and visitors will notice come June. “The Boundary Waters requires a lot of on-trail maintenance work to keep it in good shape,” said Jason Zabokrtsky of Ely Outfitting Co. “A decrease in funding that reduces the Forest Service’s ability to maintain the wilderness will negatively impact the experience of travelers.” Filling the gaps The freeze means 23 vacant seasonal jobs will go unfilled next summer. Busy ranger stations like the one in Ely, for example, might merit full staffing during busy season, while others will have limited hours, he said. The LaCroix district office in Cook, Minn., already is down to one permanent seasonal employee. Tofte and Gunflint (Grand Marais) office hours were cut beginning in mid-August because of a lack of workers. |