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Ho Ho
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quote OneMatch: "I can't say I've seen them in the BW either Pinetree and it got me thinking about it assuming that its habitat maybe doesn't go that far north. But a quick search on Wikipedia proves my thinking wrong in that it states, "The eastern gray squirrel is found in the eastern United States and adjacent southern Canada" so that would certainly include the bw.
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Jerry, I think "adjacent southern Canada" means southern Ontario (like around Lakes Erie and Ontario, e.g. Toronto) and maybe southern Quebec, not the Quetico area, which is considered "north Ontario."
Grey Squirrels are mast specialists, Red Squirrels are conifer specialists. As a result, I don't think Grey Squirrels are native up here at all - at least not yet - a few more winters like this and they will be. The City of Ely has a lot of non-native trees, and a lot of non-native animals and birds, that don't really go beyond the city limits. I haven't seen the Grey Squirrels there, and don't know exactly what they are eating, but to my mind their presence reflects the artificialness of the ecosystem in any town. Just like the Rock Doves (pigeons), Starlings, and House Sparrows that thrive there, they are non-natives that don't seem to make it in the true north woods wilds. A mile or two outside of town, our ecosystem is surprisingly intact, despite all onslaughts.
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thebotanyguy
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Hmmm....what could those gray squirrels in Ely possibly be eating?
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Pinetree
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Wow and I thought I had this thread last year. Eight years ago-wow where have been these last few years. Time flies.
Anyway I am always interested if these animals have moved north-like raccoon, gray squirrel or skunks. Never seen any in the BWCA. Have you?
What about other atypical animals sighted there?
Beside weird people.
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Savage Voyageur
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I have never seen a grey squirrel, a fox, a woodchuck, a porcupine or a raccoon in the BWCA.
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PINETREE
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That's why I mentioned the towns,I thought they may have found a niche in the town settings.
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marsonite
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My furthest north sighting of a grey squirrel was in the river bottom forest near Cook MN. That doesn't include the ones I've seen in towns. That was probably 30 years ago. The river bottoms along the Rice and Littlefork rivers are like little strips of hardwood forest, so that's why the grays must be there.
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Pinetree
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marsonite: "My furthest north sighting of a grey squirrel was in the river bottom forest near Cook MN. That doesn't include the ones I've seen in towns. That was probably 30 years ago. The river bottoms along the Rice and Littlefork rivers are like little strips of hardwood forest, so that's why the grays must be there. "
I do know they are slowly moving northward.
I keep hoping the raccoons and skunks don't start showing up. They are hard on ground nesting birds eating the eggs. Raccoons sure have adapted to State parks tho.
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Pinetree
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Savage Voyageur: "I have never seen a grey squirrel, a fox, a woodchuck, a porcupine or a raccoon in the BWCA. "
I have seen red fox, but no gray fox yet. You know, I know porcupines are up there and I just can't remember if I seen one yet.
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Banksiana
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There are grey squirrels in town in Ely. Whiteside park is thick with them. Fox are common; I see them routinely on my bike rides to and from Ely. Porcupines not so much though in July I saw the biggest porcupine I've ever seen just off the Echo. It was near dark and walking down a narrow gravel road towards me- at first I was trying to decide if it was a Fisher or a Wolverine- I've never seen a porcupine close to that size. A few years ago I had a raccoon temporarily take up residence under my house- first raccoon I'd seen in the Ely area.
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PINETREE
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While seating at my house watching the gray squirrels trying to figure how to get on the bird feeder,I though,you know I never seen a gray squirrel in the BWCA? Have you? Are they found often in the town of Ely or Grand Marais? Other animals I have not seen and some that I don't want to see is skunks or raccoons(they are more a product of human development in many cases). Also increasing in abundance around home is the gray fox,seen red fox quite often in the BWCA,but no gray fox.
Note: At home in the Brainerd-Mille lacs area I have the red squirrel,a increasing amount of black squirrels(color phase of the gray) and about every 5 years I see one fox squirrel.
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PINETREE
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My brother sees them once in a while at his feeder. I know they are around my house and I keep looking out at night,but never see them. They are quite cool. Wonder how far north they go?
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Banksiana
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There are gray squirrels in the city of Ely. I have never seen them outside of town.
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PINETREE
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I know in northern Minnesota the oaks are smaller than central Minnesota,I know red oaks keep there leaves much of the winter.They do get to be a large size around home.I use to deer hunt south of Burntside lake and there was a oak ridge present.
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gutmon
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We have several flying squirrels at our house. Fun to watch at the bird feeders after dark.
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OneMatch
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I can't say I've seen them in the BW either Pinetree and it got me thinking about it assuming that its habitat maybe doesn't go that far north. But a quick search on Wikipedia proves my thinking wrong in that it states, "The eastern gray squirrel is found in the eastern United States and adjacent southern Canada" so that would certainly include the bw.
What we commonly call the red squirrel I think is actually properly named the fox squirrel and I would think they probably dominate the area.
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mooseplums
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I have never seen a Gray squirrel or Fox Squirrel in the the BWCA or Quetico. Just the small Red Squirrels, which IS their proper name. Fox Squirrels, though Reddish in color, and not the same as the Red Squirrel. Fox Squirrels are about 3 times the size, and are commonly found in wooded areas, along agricultural areas.The actually have two color phases. One being the red which is most common to my area, and a gray phase. They are the largest squirrel in North America.
Up until last Many, I hadn't seen a skunk in the far north. On our shuttle ride to the Beaverhouse Entry point, I saw a skunk cross the highway in Canada. I knew they were present, but I had never seen one.
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snakecharmer
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Red squirrels are all I've ever seen in northern Minnesota. Used to hunt fox and grey squirrels in southern Mn as a kid. Fox squirrels are much larger. Even larger than greys.
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cowdoc
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I think the lack of nut bearing trees such as Hickory, Oaks and Walnuts, keeps the gray squirrel numbers down in much of the BW. They do not prefer all the pine nuts that the little Reds thrive on. Human selection has allowed more nut trees in Ely, hence more grays. I suspect there are a few places in the BW with some Oak ridges that have some grays. Grays prefer thicker hardwood forests while Fox squirrels like more open savanna type woods.
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Banksiana
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I see lots of oaks in the b-dub and q- they tend to be short and scrubby but are readily apparent in the winter as they tend to keep their dead leaves. The reds and grays seem to share space in town.
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OneMatch
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quote mooseplums: "I have never seen a Gray squirrel or Fox Squirrel in the the BWCA or Quetico. Just the small Red Squirrels, which IS their proper name. Fox Squirrels, though Reddish in color, and not the same as the Red Squirrel. Fox Squirrels are about 3 times the size, and are commonly found in wooded areas, along agricultural areas.The actually have two color phases. One being the red which is most common to my area, and a gray phase. They are the largest squirrel in North America.
Up until last Many, I hadn't seen a skunk in the far north. On our shuttle ride to the Beaverhouse Entry point, I saw a skunk cross the highway in Canada. I knew they were present, but I had never seen one."
Thanks, mooseplums. Didn't know that. Always good to get continuing education.
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mr.barley
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Mooseplums and I used to have a pet wild (oxymoron) fox squirrel when we were in high school. We had a cat collar on it and everything. Put a leash on it a couple times, but that didn't work to well. It got loose in the house and terrorized our mom in her bedroom and the game was over. She insisted we release it.
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butthead
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quote cowdoc: "I think the lack of nut bearing trees such as Hickory, Oaks and Walnuts, keeps the gray squirrel numbers down in much of the BW. They do not prefer all the pine nuts that the little Reds thrive on. Human selection has allowed more nut trees in Ely, hence more grays. I suspect there are a few places in the BW with some Oak ridges that have some grays. Grays prefer thicker hardwood forests while Fox squirrels like more open savanna type woods."
That is the answer! I have seen a few on some of the longer portages that include maple and oak growth.
butthead
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Banksiana
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quote butthead: "
That is the answer! I have seen a few on some of the longer portages that include maple and oak growth.
butthead"
Except there are probably fewer nut bearing trees in Ely than in the forests outside of town.
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mooseplums
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quote mr.barley: "Mooseplums and I used to have a pet wild (oxymoron) fox squirrel when we were in high school. We had a cat collar on it and everything. Put a leasj on it a couple times, but that didn't work to well. It got loose in the house and terrorized our mom in her bedroom and the game was over. She insisted we release it."
Yeah he as a wild as wild is.......I'm surprised nobody got bit.
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mooseplums
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quote gutmon: "We have several flying squirrels at our house. Fun to watch at the bird feeders after dark. "
I has a pet flying squirrel when I was in my teens......he used to ride around the house on my shoulder or in my shirt pocket.
I used to put him on top of a door or the drapes in the living room and would coax him down with sunflower seeds that I would carry in my pocket.
They make fun and interesting pets.
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gutmon
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quote mooseplums: "quote gutmon: "We have several flying squirrels at our house. Fun to watch at the bird feeders after dark. "
I has a pet flying squirrel when I was in my teens......he used to ride around the house on my shoulder or in my shirt pocket.
I used to put him on top of a door or the drapes in the living room and would coax him down with sunflower seeds that I would carry in my pocket.
They make fun and interesting pets."
How'd you ever tame it? They are pretty nervous and hyper.
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mooseplums
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quote gutmon: "quote mooseplums: "quote gutmon: "We have several flying squirrels at our house. Fun to watch at the bird feeders after dark. "
I has a pet flying squirrel when I was in my teens......he used to ride around the house on my shoulder or in my shirt pocket.
I used to put him on top of a door or the drapes in the living room and would coax him down with sunflower seeds that I would carry in my pocket.
They make fun and interesting pets."
How'd you ever tame it? They are pretty nervous and hyper. "
The flying squirrel I had was from a breeder (there are several) it was hand raised nearly from birth. Flying Squirrels are very gregarious, and tame easily.
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cowdoc
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quote Banksiana: "quote butthead: "
That is the answer! I have seen a few on some of the longer portages that include maple and oak growth.
butthead"
Except there are probably fewer nut bearing trees in Ely than in the forests outside of town. "
Probably true up there. Then, the reason they are in town is because there are less things that eat them there.
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nctry
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quote Banksiana: "quote butthead: "
That is the answer! I have seen a few on some of the longer portages that include maple and oak growth.
butthead"
Except there are probably fewer nut bearing trees in Ely than in the forests outside of town. "
I thought I heard Ely was full of nuts... :) I think cowdoc has it right... Not as many preditors in town to eat the tastier gray squirrel. But I have seen them out in the BW, just not very often. I always wonder about skunks too... I've never heard of a food pack getting raided by one. Having a dog I worry about them even though I've watched my dog go right up to them and not get sprayed here at home.
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Ho Ho
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Ha ha, good point, botanyguy! And consistent with my view that they are only in Ely because it is an altered environment.
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dogwoodgirl
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Pinetree: "Savage Voyageur: "I have never seen a grey squirrel, a fox, a woodchuck, a porcupine or a raccoon in the BWCA. "
I have seen red fox, but no gray fox yet. You know, I know porcupines are up there and I just can't remember if I seen one yet. "
My son and I heard a porcupine grumbling to itself on Ella this summer. Didn't see it, but kept Miss Amelia on a leash so she didn't go investigate the "stabbity squirrel"
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minnmike
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OneMatch: "I can't say I've seen them in the BW either Pinetree and it got me thinking about it assuming that its habitat maybe doesn't go that far north. But a quick search on Wikipedia proves my thinking wrong in that it states, "The eastern gray squirrel is found in the eastern United States and adjacent southern Canada" so that would certainly include the bw.
What we commonly call the red squirrel I think is actually properly named the fox squirrel and I would think they probably dominate the area.
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Parts of southern canada over eastern US is actually south of the BWCA. That and as others have said lack of walnut and oaks in BW region really keep grays at bay.
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Pinetree
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minnmike: "OneMatch: "I can't say I've seen them in the BW either Pinetree and it got me thinking about it assuming that its habitat maybe doesn't go that far north. But a quick search on Wikipedia proves my thinking wrong in that it states, "The eastern gray squirrel is found in the eastern United States and adjacent southern Canada" so that would certainly include the bw.
What we commonly call the red squirrel I think is actually properly named the fox squirrel and I would think they probably dominate the area.
"
Parts of southern canada over eastern US is actually south of the BWCA. That and as others have said lack of walnut and oaks in BW region really keep grays at bay. "
The Red squirrel is dominate in the BWCA and is a Red squirrel, the Fox squirrel is even bigger than the grey squirrel and predominate in the farm county like get down toward St. Cloud and like the wind rows of. tree wind breaks along corn fields. Even in Brainerd I think I have seen only two Fox squirrels in my life.
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Pinetree
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Banksiana: "There are grey squirrels in town in Ely. Whiteside park is thick with them. Fox are common; I see them routinely on my bike rides to and from Ely. Porcupines not so much though in July I saw the biggest porcupine I've ever seen just off the Echo. It was near dark and walking down a narrow gravel road towards me- at first I was trying to decide if it was a Fisher or a Wolverine- I've never seen a porcupine close to that size. A few years ago I had a raccoon temporarily take up residence under my house- first raccoon I'd seen in the Ely area."
Yes raccoon like to move into towns and under vacant houses or under structures. I know raccoons moved northward toward Canada in the prairie county and much of that is they took over vacant homesteads.
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marsonite
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I've got a lot of trail camera photos of gray fox at my cabin, which is about 15 miles south of Bald Eagle lake. The spread of gray fox into northern MN is really interesting. Until about 2010 or so, I would have never dreamed gray fox would expand their range like that. They were always thought of as a creature of hardwood forests.
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Pinetree
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marsonite: "I've got a lot of trail camera photos of gray fox at my cabin, which is about 15 miles south of Bald Eagle lake. The spread of gray fox into northern MN is really interesting. Until about 2010 or so, I would have never dreamed gray fox would expand their range like that. They were always thought of as a creature of hardwood forests. "
Wow, I heard they moved up along the north shore. Even in the Brainerd area they were very rare, around 2000-2005 they showed up. Now they are the most abundant fox. Even by Longville they are very abundant. Much more than Red Fox. At home I seen them under the bird feeder eating sunflower seeds and they like acorns also.
Had a friend hunting about 20 miles straight west of Brainerd. All of a sudden here comes a Grey fox running toward him with two coyotes in pursuit. The grey fox than all of a sudden climbed a tree, thus escaping the coyote who just looked up the tree at him.
Maybe the milder winters lately most of the time and also wolves have spread south of Brainerd in good numbers around 1995-2000. Grey fox can climb trees and red fox can't. Something has changed-why?
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thistlekicker
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I saw a skunk at the Flour Lake campground up the Gunflint maybe 15 years ago. Seemed very used to people...
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mschi772
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Savage Voyageur: "I have never seen a grey squirrel, a fox, a woodchuck, a porcupine or a raccoon in the BWCA. "
Woodchuck at Johnson Falls August 2020. Still with ya on never seeing even a sign of the others.
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Unas10
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I live in central Wisconsin with grays common and reds definitely not rare. We have the black variety of grays in the city of Wisconsin Rapids, but I rarely see them anywhere else.
I go to SW Wisconsin for deer hunting. My reaction is always the same when I see my first fox squirrel. "Holy cow, that thing is huge!....Oh, yeah, that's what lives here."
How about other animals coming south? Last Sunday I came across a road-killed pine marten. I had no idea they were this far south. They have probably been here longer than I have. They just must be much more road savvy than raccoons or squirrels.
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marsonite
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Unas10: "I live in central Wisconsin with grays common and reds definitely not rare. We have the black variety of grays in the city of Wisconsin Rapids, but I rarely see them anywhere else.
I go to SW Wisconsin for deer hunting. My reaction is always the same when I see my first fox squirrel. "Holy cow, that thing is huge!....Oh, yeah, that's what lives here."
How about other animals coming south? Last Sunday I came across a road-killed pine marten. I had no idea they were this far south. They have probably been here longer than I have. They just must be much more road savvy than raccoons or squirrels."
That's interesting. I remember when I was a kid seeing my very first pine marten (dead, my uncle had accidentally trapped it) in the 70's in northern MN. By the 80's, they were very common in the Superior national forest. I believe they have been spreading south ever since. I think they were extirpated at one point, and have been reclaiming their historic range, but who knows, there could be other factors at play. Similar story with fishers.
Another species that seems to have been making a southward movement is the lynx. The DNR used to insist that there were no breeding lynx in the state, that what lynx we say were just dispersing males from Canada, and they were probably right at the time, but that has changed now as we clearly have breeding lynx in the state.
I'm by no means a climate change denier, but I sort of cringe whenever I hear this glib answer that every change you see is due to climate change. Seems like animal ranges are alway pretty dynamic especially considering the changes logging and development have made to our forests....heck, white tailed deer are not native to our northern forests, and they used to hunt caribou 15 miles from Duluth!
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inspector13
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For the past several years I’ve had a Franklin’s Ground Squirrel running around my property in the Highland/Wales area. At first I thought it was a Gray Squirrel, but got a good look when it went in my garage.
Also, I never thought I’d see these so close to the BWCAW. They were hanging around for several years. I think the deep snow the past couple years got them since I haven’t seen them since.
Apparently, there were pigs running around on Highway 2 this past May. It must have been Covid related.
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