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Boundary Waters Quetico Forum :: Listening Point - General Discussion :: Search and Rescue Costs
 
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yellowcanoe
11/16/2012 04:56PM
  
I do not see the Forest Service or the Department of Agriculture listed as a participant.


Did I miss something?
 
mocha
11/16/2012 05:54PM
  
it could be no charge within the BW, outside the BW is superior national forest...
that's why i said.. call the USFS and ask for the written rule.
 
Bwoods
11/15/2012 06:22PM
  
A buddy and I were discussing worst case scenarios the other night and he asked if I had S&R Insurance which I do not have. I know S&R's are expensive, but I never thought about how I would pay for it if needed. I am hoping someone out there knows more than me about this sort of thing.

If I were to ever have to hit the SOS button on my SPOT how much cost would I end up being responsible for and does normal medical insurance from an employer typically cover any of those expenses?

If I use my SPOT for someone else either in my group or in another group am I responsible for any of the costs because I hit the button?


 
PortageKeeper
11/15/2012 06:55PM
  
Those doing the insuring should know.
 
Bwoods
11/15/2012 07:14PM
  
quote kanoes: "ive read on here that SAR in canada is free. just a thought, you might want to contact your medical insurance provider."
Free S&R, free health care, and the best canoeing in the world. What a country! I want to be a Canadian when I grow up.


 
fitgers1
11/15/2012 07:31PM
  
I've thought about this as well but only the SAR part. I don't use a SPOT. I'm sure it costs plenty though. Remember when paying your taxes was enough to cover emergency services like this? My ending thought on the matter was this; if I am in need of SAR, my life insurance will be paying for it. I intend to make it out so any search and rescue for me would be a search and recovery.
On a side note...
You may not want to be a Canadian after you e tried their health care few times.
 
Beaverjack
11/15/2012 06:56PM
  
I was evaluating PLBs last year (never did decide which was best for me) and there was one that had such insurance as an add on.
 
mjmkjun
11/15/2012 06:47PM
  
Good questions. Coincidentally, was wondering about that a few days ago.
 
tonyyarusso
11/15/2012 10:01PM
  
quote fitgers1: "You may not want to be a Canadian after you e tried their health care few times."
Seemed pretty darn good for me.
 
thecanoeman
11/16/2012 04:10AM
  
The SAR rescue available through the SPOT organization is only for the owner of the device and when someone in the group needs extraction, its just like calling 911 who ever is injured is responsible for the cost. I know this because we use these devices and I contacted the Spot organization and this is exactly what they told me.

I find it odd, here in Michigan on the Great Lakes when ice fishing and you break off on a ice flow the cost is free, they give you 3 free extractions then the cost is passed onto you.
 
fitgers1
11/15/2012 10:07PM
  
I'm glad that it works for some people.


Now back to our topic...; )
 
mjmkjun
11/16/2012 06:22AM
  
So many variables involved in SAR that it's almost impossible to pinpoint a figure. Helicopter involved? How much manpower? How many days? etc, etc. I had a figure in my head of $5000 average for a relatively quick rescue of a lost soul in the woods/wilderness area. Doesn't factor in medical or hospital stays, of course.
Seems it was a conservative figure according to one article I read this morning. Link
Yikes. I'm going to cease complaining about the cost of the SPOT annual renewal and splurge on some rescue insurance too. As an older soloist, am not as quick or lithesome as I use to be. After all, accidents by nature are unexpected, sudden and frequently a complete surprise.
I read some skiers rescued-airlifted from atop the Tetons were billed a whopping $115,000.



 
kanoes
11/15/2012 07:03PM
  
ive read on here that SAR in canada is free. just a thought, you might want to contact your medical insurance provider.
 
billconner
11/16/2012 06:40AM
  
At Quiet Journey (I think - or was it solo.com?) two different stories of rescues initiated by a Spot - and basically there was no cost to the rescued person. (one in WCPP and one in the Q IIRC?) I also read that a false alarm seemed to be cause for the rescuers to invoice the party responsible.

Curiously, no reports of BWCAW. US may be less charitable.

Side note: one of the incidents reported - they couldn't fly out his canoe - so it was stashed in the woods and he had to fly in the next year to retrieve it - I'm sure on his own dime.


 
nctry
11/16/2012 08:41AM
  
quote BillConner01: "Side note: one of the incidents reported - they couldn't fly out his canoe - so it was stashed in the woods and he had to fly in the next year to retrieve it - I'm sure on his own dime."
I know in the case of MT he chartered a plane the next day and got his out. They did take his gear. He was extracted by helicopter, and I doubt a canoe would make it far on one of those. I'd ask my insurance guy about the coverage, but I doubt it's cheap.


 
eagle93
11/15/2012 10:47PM
  
You can buy SAR insurance when you get your SPOT for 12.95. That's for 100K of expenses. Not a bad deal IMHO. Just checked their site to be sure. I believe it was 9.95 a few years ago.
 
Unas10
11/16/2012 04:53AM
  
quote kanoes: "ive read on here that SAR in canada is free. just a thought, you might want to contact your medical insurance provider."
Nothing tangible is free. Somebody somewhere pays.


 
MrBreeze
11/16/2012 03:22PM
  
I don't use SPOT but have had an emergency GPS locator (beacon) for several years. I was told by the gentleman at the sporting goods store where I got it that if you have a GPS locator (SPOT would be included) so they know exactly where you are, they don't usually charge the rescued person. If they have to send out many people to search for you or your party, then they "can" pass the cost on to you.
I have not checked with the "authorities" to confirm this and just take precautions to prevent the need, but you never know. . .
 
billconner
11/16/2012 03:46PM
  
quote nctry: "quote BillConner01: "Side note: one of the incidents reported - they couldn't fly out his canoe - so it was stashed in the woods and he had to fly in the next year to retrieve it - I'm sure on his own dime."
I know in the case of MT he chartered a plane the next day and got his out. They did take his gear. He was extracted by helicopter, and I doubt a canoe would make it far on one of those. I'd ask my insurance guy about the coverage, but I doubt it's cheap.


"


Thanks. I thought it was spring when he went back.
 
butthead
11/16/2012 04:32PM
  
Here is another article on this topic, American Whitewater, and a link to, National SAR Plan,
of interest to this topic,

"CHARGING FOR SAR SERVICES
47. Each Participant will fund its own activities in relation to this Plan unless otherwise arranged by
the Participants in advance, and will not allow a matter of reimbursement of cost among
themselves to delay response to any person in danger or distress.
48. The Participants agree that SAR services that they provide to persons in danger or distress will
be without subsequent cost-recovery from the person(s) assisted.
49. In accordance with customary international law, when one nation requests help from another
nation to assist a person(s) in danger or distress, if such help is provided, it will be done
voluntarily, and the U.S. will neither request nor pay reimbursement of cost for such assistance".

butthead

 
hobbydog
11/16/2012 04:49PM
  
I remember a few years back when the young girl sailing around the world went down in the Indian Ocean. I think it was Australia or New Zealand that did the rescue and there was no charge despite a tremendous cost. This did create some controversy at the time.


A few years ago there was the women lost on the Kek trail. If I remeber right there was an extensive search and eventually a helicopter rescue. I don't believe they were charged.


I think in a lot of cases it is a judgement call. If you were well prepared and get into life threatening situation vs being poorly prepared and not really in a life threatening situation.


That is one thing nice about Spot is you can send the non life threatening message and your designated contact can coordinate a cost effective rescue.
 
mocha
11/16/2012 05:24PM
  
the USFS can NOT charge for SAR. you can call and talk to the USFS and they will explain why. has something to do with it being "federal" and your tax dollars are already involved.


However, wouldn't it be nice if those benefiting from a SAR would make a donation to the organization responsible?
 
Bwoods
11/16/2012 03:10PM
  
Does anyone know the S&R law in Minnesota. Are you wasting your money with the insurance if you wouldnt be responsible anyway?
 
yellowcanoe
11/16/2012 05:39PM
  
quote mocha: "the USFS can NOT charge for SAR. you can call and talk to the USFS and they will explain why. has something to do with it being "federal" and your tax dollars are already involved.



However, wouldn't it be nice if those benefiting from a SAR would make a donation to the organization responsible? "


They do have the power to charge here in a National Forest. Maybe it is because SAR is administered under State laws in the White Mountain National Forest and not done with the National Forsest personnel or covered in their budget. I am just trying to clarify..


I do not see MN in this list.. There are signs at every popular trailhead in the White Mountain National Forest that state clearly that you can be charged for SAR if you are found to be negligent.


charging for rescue
 
Grandma L
11/16/2012 03:49PM
  
Several years ago when I was working as a children's camp director, I had staff and campers on a trip through Lac and Crooked. One of the kids fell and split her head open pretty good, the staff paddled to a radio station, they called for help and the float plane can to get her. They put her on a back board and away they went. She needed stitches and had a pretty bad concussion.


The Ely sheriff called me from the Ely hospital as a courtesy. (Nice guy) When I asked if they knew what kind of charges I should expect, I was told it was part of the Forest Service services. If it had been a false alarm, I would have had to pay.
 
yellowcanoe
11/16/2012 11:00AM
  
Billing for SAR costs varies from atate to state and particular incident to particular incident. In New Hampshire you can be dunned for the cost if you are unprepared.

I know of two recues in Canada.. Neither party was billed and both had to return later via private charter to pick up their canoe and gear. The initial rescues were by helicopter.

One guy in the Adirondacks called for rescue as he was snowed in on a canoe trip..but in no immediate danger. Worst he called for re rescue two weeks later when he attempted to get his gear out. Neither were deemed necessary. IIRC he got to spend a bit of time in jail.

Doesn't matter if you use SPOT or PLB... the actual people that come and rescue will be the same folks be they a local SAR or the military.


 
bobbernumber3
11/16/2012 05:51PM
  
three of us split a bill from Atikokan Air Service a few years ago. It included extraction from Saganaga, trip to Cache Bay Ranger Station, and flight to Seagull. Price was about $270 divided by three or $90 each. We all agreed it was a great deal! I don't remember most of the ordeal.