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03/18/2013 09:42PM |
quote schweady: "LilyLakePaddles1:
I think you're good. The RAM Yoke Clamp Base RAM-B-121BU that I use says that it will fit rails in diameter from 0.625" to a maximum of 1.25" and it is plenty big on the thwart of the Souris River Q17 that I rent.
"
I was looking at all the mounts RAM has, and the Clampy seems like it would be a better option than the U-bolts.
Do you like your clamp?
Issues/likes/dislikes
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03/18/2013 06:51PM |
I think you're good. The RAM Yoke Clamp Base RAM-B-121BU that I use says that it will fit rails in diameter from 0.625" to a maximum of 1.25" and it is plenty big on the thwart of the Souris River Q17 that I rent.
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03/19/2013 06:44AM |
quote LilyLakePaddles1:
The U bolts I used take up to a 1.375" Dia. pipe. I plan to clamp it on the aluminum cross bar. Does someone have a MN II or something similar that could measure what the actual aluminum cross bar diameter is for me? They don't really have that in the specs online. Would rather fix it now if it is wrong."
Lily,
thwarts on my wenonah champlain are exactly 1.000".(vernier caliper)
if anything, your u-bolts may be a little big? the contact area between the thwart and u-bolt/mounting plate is going to be at 6 and 12 o'clock, and zero up the sides. you may have to really crank down those wing nuts to keep it in place. or maybe it will be fine?? just my 2 cents.
I also wanted to add that if your gut is telling you that something's going to be a problem, it will be, and you should fix it now. If your skimmer setup seams sketchy, don't hesitate to get it right. I guess I'm almost up to a nickel:)
a couple examples, suction cup mount and hose clamps instead of u-bolts. ("amhacker22" now owns this setup.)
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03/07/2013 08:21PM |
quote schweady: "quote dutchman: "as far as above or below, in the past I have been an 'above' guy and this is going to be my first below. why? I like the less cluttered look, less chance of hitting it with my paddle or fishing pole, and less chance of inadvertently catching my line on it, all of which have happened to me. I did consider the looking down thing, but for me, my previous reasons outweigh this possible disadvantage."
Well thought out. My Humminbird PiranhaMAX 210 Portable unit sits on the canoe floor, and although I have often thought of various thwart mount solutions, the same considerations keep me from bothering. I don't mind the 'looking down' thing; I sort of like it there.
"
Plus, when it looks like you are hanging your head it gives the illusion to other paddlers that might pass by that you are not having any luck :)
Thanks for posting dutchman, good little set-up there.
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04/26/2011 11:28PM |
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05/01/2011 11:42AM |
quote womp35: "TIMMY, great info, HOWEVER, I have no idea what you are talking about when you mention the 8 AA harness or the connectors to go from 9v to 2 wires. Could you possibly post a pic? Also, how long of battery life do you expect? I have a Hummingbird 565 that I switched to a portable unit by changing transducers and I don't know how long the batteries will last."
9v Snap Connectors
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03/15/2013 11:59AM |
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03/07/2013 07:46PM |
quote dutchman: "as far as above or below, in the past I have been an 'above' guy and this is going to be my first below. why? I like the less cluttered look, less chance of hitting it with my paddle or fishing pole, and less chance of inadvertently catching my line on it, all of which have happened to me. I did consider the looking down thing, but for me, my previous reasons outweigh this possible disadvantage."
Well thought out. My Humminbird PiranhaMAX 210 Portable unit sits on the canoe floor, and although I have often thought of various thwart mount solutions, the same considerations keep me from bothering. I don't mind the 'looking down' thing; I sort of like it there.
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03/08/2013 01:27PM |
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04/28/2011 09:17PM |
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02/25/2013 11:18PM |
quote motdur: "I used one of these last year and loved it. Instead of casting...I tethered it to the canoe. Hummingbird Smartcast"
How did you tether it to the canoe?
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02/27/2013 08:57AM |
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04/06/2016 03:19PM |
quote bobbwca: "quote BigAl2: "Hey Bobbwca: about Eagle Cuda 300. Did you find a way to connect the transducer to the suction cup? I bought a suction cup, but so far have not been able to come up with a method to attach the suction cup to the transducer. The suction cup came with a plastic bracket which attaches to the suction cup and the transducer. It is made to attach to the back of a boat. If the suction cup is attached to the side of a canoe, the transducer would then face 90 degrees out from the canoe (wrong orientation) with this plastic bracket. "Darrel Brauer" in his article in BWJ (journal) about the a Eagle Cuda 300 does not give much detail aoout how He does this. He said to adjust the bracket in a vise and with pliers, but that is all. Sure wish I had your email address, so I could contact you Bobbwca !"
Before all the e-mails I never thought much about the suction cup mount transducer angle from the canoe. Anyways I had a slow day at work and made this.
I used 3/4 in. Aluminum square tubing for the new mounting bracket. Stainless bolts and washers. I had to use a longer bolt to mount it to the suction cup. The Eagle Cuda and everything else fits into a small bag and weighs about 3.5 pounds, including batteries.
"
Where did you get your suction cup and is it threaded?
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01/12/2011 04:50PM |
I place tranducer in 1" of water in plastic ziploc on floor of canoe. I prefer this method to suction cup transducer. I believe that silicone can be used for a more permanent application on inside hull of canoe.
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01/12/2011 05:43PM |
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01/12/2011 04:06PM |
quote JEFF2053: "Have any of you used a thru hull transducer I've also been consider a locater for my canoe and thought the thru hull transducer would be a convenient way to go also I was considering a color locater, this might be a stupid question but will a color locater drain my batteries faster than the monochrome
Jeff"
I think I understand your question: Most transducers will shoot thru the hull of a canoe. I have had no trouble in my Kevlar shooting through the hull. Just make sure there is a little water on the bottom (there always is on mine) and I just lay the transducer on the bottom. Occasionally I kick it over, but then you get wierd readings so you will know. I do this while trolling. When drifting of anchored I use the suction cup. I've heard the sensitivity is better with the suction cup/transducer directly in the water. Don't know if it is true or not--makes me feel better:)
T
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04/30/2011 11:25AM |
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04/30/2011 07:50PM |
I bought a pirahnaMAX 170 today, then ran to radio shack, and got a 8 AA harness to hold the batteries, along with a pack of the connectors that go from a 9V-connection to 2 wires. This connects directly to the harness and gives you two wire leads, a pos and a neg. Then all you have to do is wire nut this to your fish finder of choice!
Little things to figure out are how to mount, what to use to enclose your batteries, etc.
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04/30/2011 11:53PM |
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03/26/2013 12:56PM |
quote halvorsonchristopher1: "
Do you like your clamp?
Issues/likes/dislikes"
Love it. Looks a bit bulky, eh, but I never pack it and it's not heavy at all; it's clamped to the thwart in front of me first thing and stays there until we're loading the vehicles for the drive home. A quick twist to loosen, drop it down inside the canoe, and re-tighten for portaging or for turning the canoe over on land allows everything to be left together without worries about catching on things or grinding into the ground. Very versatile to have a ball joint as the base for turning the screen to one angle or another.
I did try a u-bolt solution one year. It was actually not a good thing. Sloppy connection, hard to keep tight, too many little parts.
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03/21/2011 12:33PM |
works great and not to heavy.
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03/09/2011 12:21PM |
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03/09/2011 12:18PM |
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06/10/2011 02:16PM |
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03/18/2013 08:33PM |
quote LilyLakePaddles1: "The engineer in me could not resist building something after reading this thread. Pictures below of what I build over the past few days. Now I have a couple questions to finish her off:
1) I don't think I like the plastic container for the skimmer transducer. Even if I fill it with water there still can be air between the container and canoe. Will this indeed work, or should I go with a water "baggie", or just go for a suction cup on the outside to ensure proper function? FYI - this will be used on a rental kevlar.
2) The U bolts I used take up to a 1.375" Dia. pipe. I plan to clamp it on the aluminum cross bar. Does someone have a MN II or something similar that could measure what the actual aluminum cross bar diameter is for me? They don't really have that in the specs online. Would rather fix it now if it is wrong.
"
Nice work there! In regards to the ducer, it will most likely work fine but will use more power. The transducers are set to read through water, and the more different layers between the ducer and the water, the harder and more energy used. If you placed the transducer directly on the dry hull bottom (no water or anything), it would still work (I have done this as a test on my cedar strip) but again best results would be from a water to hull to water (lake) set up. The baggie would most likely work better, as there would be less of an 'air' layer between ducer and hull, but it would be more hassle. Still, they weigh next to nothing so take a few with some rubber bands to close them up and see what works best. More important would be making sure the ducer is placed over an area of the boat without foam ribs. Straight Kevlar would be best.
Moonman.
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03/21/2015 04:53PM |
lets say I get 25 hours from my 230 does that mean I would get like 14.7 hours from the pirananha 195.
I assumed 1/1.7=0.58 than .58 x 25 hour=14.7 hours by my crude math.
I hope this unit would also be a little more sensitive,unless the color screen is eating up all the extra juice?
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01/07/2011 01:46PM |
Hawkeye Portable Fish Finder
It worked great for telling me the water temp and the depth. It helped me find sunken islands and that sort of structure (depth changes). It's also supposed to indicate fish but I never once saw the fish symbol. If you're looking for basic water temp/depth this unit is great and very small and portable. If you're looking for fish, not so much.
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05/22/2013 03:23PM |
Were did you get the piece of metal that attaches to the transducer and suction cup?
That is exactly what I am looking for!
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05/22/2013 04:38PM |
That piece was actually custom made for me by a friend. It was a chunk of aluminum that he machined down. I then had him drill out material along the shank to lighten it up as much as possible. (like helicopter parts, so I'm told.)
d
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05/22/2013 02:51PM |
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05/22/2013 02:16PM |
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05/23/2013 08:33AM |
For as many people out there that want to use "portable" electronics, specifically with a canoe; I am surprised that none of the major manufacturers (or anyone for that matter) makes a mount for turning the transducer like you have. Seems like everyone has to fabricate their own custom solution (me included). Or settle with having the transducer facing the wrong direction.
Wish I could machine parts or make a mold of some sort, seems like there would be some money to be made if you could do it efficiently and really pump them out. Add a couple awesome suction cups and I think there would be a market for them!
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01/12/2011 12:27PM |
Jeff
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01/12/2011 01:37PM |
You can do the math. I figured my unit draws 100mA. A series of 10 2500mA AA rechargables would provide 12 volts for 2500/100 = 25 hours, assuming the voltage doesn't drop to an unusable level before the batteries drain, which is likely. I went with a Cabela's 8.0Ah rechargable which theoretically lasts 80 hours at 100mA draw.
Here is the info I once copied from the Humminbird website. If you're looking at their lineup and the model isn't in this list, find the model with the closest specs:
------------------------------------------
How much power does my unit draw?
Unit Name Power Draw Lights Off mA Power Draw Lights On mA
141 259 mA n/a
161 288 mA n/a
323 310 mA n/a
343c 383 mA n/a
363 310 mA n/a
383c 383 mA n/a
717 250 mA 198 mA
718 330 mA 365 mA
727 210 mA 300 mA
728 330 mA 365 mA
737 250 mA 300 mA
747 n/a 615 mA
757 n/a 600 mA
767 n/a 218 mA
768 390 mA 425 mA
777c n/a 600 mA
778c n/a 625 mA
787c n/a 560 mA
788c n/a 650 mA
797c2 SI n/a 680 mA
797c2i SI n/a 700 mA
798ci SI n/a 650 mA
917 n/a 710 mA
967 n/a 824 mA
981c SI n/a 1000 mA
997c SI n/a 800 mA
1155 n/a 1200 mA
1157 n/a 1300 mA
1197 SI n/a 1300 mA
AS BP 20 mA n/a
AS Cannonlink 50 mA n/a
AS Interlink 50 mA n/a
AS GR16 50 mA n/a
AS RSL 20 mA n/a
FF535 130 mA 175 mA
FF565 130 mA 175 mA
FF575 130 mA 175 mA
FF585 n/a 750 mA
FF586 n/a 475 mA
FF587ci n/a 475 mA
FF596c n/a 475 mA
FF597ci n/a 475 mA
Matrix 47 3D 301 mA 326 mA
Matrix 77 n/a 580 mA
Matrix 87 n/a 630 mA
Matrix 97 n/a 930 mA
Piranha Max 10 50 mA 110 mA
Piranha Max 15 50 mA 110 mA
Piranha Max 20 35 mA 150 mA
Piranha Max 210 PT 50 mA 100 mA
Piranha Max 150 35 mA 100 mA
Piranha Max 160 35 mA 100 mA
Piranha Max 170 75 mA 160 mA
Piranha Max 190C n/a 235 mA
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01/07/2011 08:26PM |
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01/08/2011 08:49AM |
quote kanoes: "id buy a small, permanent mount model and build a AA battery pack for it. id also shorten the transducer cable...if youre only going to use it in the canoe. (i happen to know someone who can do this) :)"
There is a great article in the BWJ on how to do this.
In my opinion vexilar made the best one for canoes but the cost was too high for a niche product designed specifically for the BWCAW/Quetico.
As to what model depends on screen size, color or bw graph, GPS etc... I tend to Think the simpler the better. Anything that gives depth will be nice to have.
T
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01/08/2011 10:31AM |
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01/08/2011 10:38AM |
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01/09/2011 08:56AM |
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01/09/2011 03:54PM |
This unit is a bit heavy but works great. The transducer shoots through the bottom of the canoe. The battery lasts for a long week.
I have caught many fish that I would not have caught without the depthfinder.
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07/01/2011 10:57AM |
bobbwca- I really like that transducer mount you made. Will you make one and sell it to me? I think there would be a small market for those, great handiwork.
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03/22/2011 07:32PM |
Anyone have or used one. It has good reviews on there website
thanks RB
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03/23/2011 05:48PM |
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03/23/2011 08:31PM |
quote rockstaranon 03/09/2011 12:18PM
Can anyone tell me how to get the eagle cuda 300 portable to run on AA batteries? I thought I saw someone post on it but I can't seem to find it. ."
Rockstaranon:
To set up "The Eagle Cudo 300" for a canoe, check out the Summer 2009 BWJ article authored by "Darrel Brauer= - page 61. I recently bought one from Cabela's and am hoping I can get a AA battery holder from "Radio Shack" though I have not purchased it yet.
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03/23/2011 09:10PM |
"See any?" I asked.
"Yep."
"What depth?"
"Everywhere."
And they were everywhere, but we would have realized that without the sonar. Still, it was fun knowing.
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01/07/2011 10:11AM |
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01/07/2011 12:32PM |
I'm not very interested in affixing anything permanently to my canoe, but maybe I'm missing something obvious. I can't imagine that the unit itself, or the transducer, would be permanently mounted.
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01/07/2011 09:38AM |
Brands? Models? Features, etc. would be appreciated.
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01/07/2011 01:19PM |
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01/07/2011 02:13PM |
I've never been a big fan of the suction cup for the transducer...keeps falling off, at least on the aluminum canoes we rent.
I went with this bracket for a temporary mount...I have the standard model.
Transducer bracket Products
Dave
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01/07/2011 10:38AM |
Works quite well!
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01/08/2011 11:22AM |
Bruce
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01/08/2011 11:25AM |
Here is the one I use. About as simple as you can get. This is the entire unit batteries are integrated in the bottom. It will shoot through the hull when you want to troll--I hate the noise it makes while suction cupped to side while traveling.
T
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01/08/2011 01:03PM |
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01/08/2011 11:40AM |
WTGMonkey... a floating transducer? Does that mean you'd only use it while sitting still and fishing? I'd want to be able to paddle across a bay and find the submerged humps and reefs.
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01/08/2011 07:57PM |
Fishin Buddy 110
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01/08/2011 08:12PM |
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01/08/2011 07:34PM |
Anthony
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01/09/2011 08:11AM |
It is written by Kingfisher over at the Quiet Journey Canoe site if you want to ask more questions I am sure he would make himself available. As Kanoes pointed out I think it is similar if not the same as his method--so you have two people to draw idea/info from.
Kanoes you used to be a member at QJ---did you two develop the idea independently, together, or one of you post it first and the other tweak it? Doesn't matter, just curious because they are so similar--that's why I love sites like this.
I love my Vex, but IF I couldn't get my hands on one----modifying one looks to be the best way to go.
T
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01/09/2011 09:16AM |
quote gsfisher13: "Anybody ever try the Humminbird 110 (or higher models) Fishin Buddy's? They seem like the perfect portable fish finder for canoes, fixed transducer pole, runs on AA batteries, and clamps to attach to the side of the canoe.
Fishin Buddy 110 "
The Fishin Buddy does work very well, but whenever you move, you must take it up. The transducer post that sits in the water, even while paddle slowly, wobbles horribly. The clamp seems big and sturdy enough, but apparently, it's not. It should really be used for still fishing or drifting. I have to tilt mine out of the water for paddling at any speed.
It is, however, accurate and I like the side finding feature.
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01/08/2011 11:17PM |
quote timatkn: "quote kanoes: "id buy a small, permanent mount model and build a AA battery pack for it. id also shorten the transducer cable...if youre only going to use it in the canoe. (i happen to know someone who can do this) :)"
There is a great article in the BWJ on how to do this.
Know which issue Timatkn?
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01/09/2011 12:04PM |
I'm with Bruce and the others for the Pirahnamax. I have the 230. The whole unit weighs about 4 lbs. I only use the suction cup transducer attached to the stern and then bind up the excess transducer cable. Since I have a SR18.5, I put the unit on the middle seat. Handy as all get out. I have the original 8 AA batteries in it after about 30 hours of use. I use it in my boat also now. pirahnamax 230
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01/08/2011 11:33PM |
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01/11/2011 02:57PM |
quote Bumpa: "I agree with otter1. I have the Eagle also, and it works great. nice to know the surface temp. too. The batteries last a long time, and enough spares to replaced the dead ones don't takes up much space in a pack (AA size}. When the transducer sticks too tightly, just slide it around the contour of your craft until the suction breaks. Better to have a firm grip that have the transducer keep coming off."
I'm really liking this Eagle Cuda 300, but the description says "more effective fish detection area of up to 60° with high sensitivity settings" does this mean it will only work in water up 60 degrees or warmer? Or below? Or am I just not reading this correctly?
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03/18/2013 06:10PM |
1) I don't think I like the plastic container for the skimmer transducer. Even if I fill it with water there still can be air between the container and canoe. Will this indeed work, or should I go with a water "baggie", or just go for a suction cup on the outside to ensure proper function? FYI - this will be used on a rental kevlar.
2) The U bolts I used take up to a 1.375" Dia. pipe. I plan to clamp it on the aluminum cross bar. Does someone have a MN II or something similar that could measure what the actual aluminum cross bar diameter is for me? They don't really have that in the specs online. Would rather fix it now if it is wrong.
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03/11/2013 09:43AM |
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03/09/2013 04:00PM |
Even though I travel fairly light, I would not be without a depthfinder. Just eliminates so much unproductive water, great for finding humps, drops and structure. Indispensible for laker fishing in the summer.
I recommend something on the order of 800 watts peak, grayscale LCD, have the cable shortened, make a 10-cell AA battery pack, and mount the transducer permanently inside the hull.
I've used a Cuda 168 (no longer made) for a few years, with transducer permanently mounted all the way inside the stern of my Kevlar. I get 8 days hard use with 10 AA alkalines. The downside of permanent thru-hull mount: you will lose accurate temp info. A small price to pay. I typically turn "Fish ID" off, and prefer to interpret the display myself. For example, when jigging for walleyes, a walleye will look like a long, thin horizontal line just barely (or seemingly attached) to the bottom. Also, when laker fishing and vertical jigging, I am able to use the depth finder to watch the jig fall to the depth of my target. Pretty handy!
Previously, I used an older Humminbird Piranha. Didn't work as well for me. Although the Eagle Cuda 168 is no longer made, I know a Cuda 250 would work fine. I suspect many other low-end finders from various manufacturers would also work. One of the key specs: look for 800 watts peak (or 100 watts RMS). Anything more powerful, you will be sacrificing battery life.
You don't need an expensive depth finder. Matter of fact, the more powerful, expensive color models will probably have pretty short battery life when used with an AA battery configuration.
A lot of previous posts on this subject, with some terrific ideas from very knowledgeable people for selecting depth finders, making battery packs, etc. Just do a search for depth finder or fish finder on this web site. Good luck, and great fishing!
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03/08/2013 09:00AM |
pirahnamax 230
i personally do not have experience with any of the piranhamax units. i did have a unit that utilized the suction cup. the only gripe i had was the noise it made as it cut thru the water. just my 2 cents.
d
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03/09/2013 04:55PM |
The transducer is permanently attached with epoxy to the inside bottom stern. The shortened cable is permananently strapped with cable ties, etc.
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03/08/2013 07:53AM |
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03/07/2013 04:02PM |
the mount i found is a contour roam bike mount. its made by usa gear and I found it on amazon. I then took 1 1/2" aluminum pipe and sectioned a small piece, and then cut it in half. then I removed two screws from the depth finder and drilled my aluminum to fitup to the 2 screws I removed. the hardest part was finding longer stainless #2-56 screws to use. the last step was to drill a 1/4" hole so I could attach the c.r.bike mount to the aluminum strap. the mount itself out of the box is .13 ounces, way lighter than anything I can build.
countour roam bike mount
as far as above or below, in the past I have been an 'above' guy and this is going to be my first below. why? I like the less cluttered look, less chance of hitting it with my paddle or fishing pole, and less chance of inadvertently catching my line on it, all of which have happened to me. I did consider the looking down thing, but for me, my previous reasons outweigh this possible disadvantage.
d
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03/06/2013 09:27PM |
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03/06/2013 03:44PM |
As far a placement, I got lucky with my first canoe and put it off center a bit which ended up being the right decision because that's where my little tackle box sits..front and center.
d
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03/07/2013 09:07AM |
quote dutchman: "I just finished this up and thought I'd throw it up here for anyone looking for ideas. I will "glue" it to the hull later in the spring when temps warm up.1.3 pounds with batteries."
dutchman nice looking set up. thanks for posting the pictures of it. I was wondering what kind/model of mount that is? it looks lighter and smaller that my setup.
I like to be able to attach my mount to the thwart or crossbar depending on if I am solo or tandem. My display is over the crossbar or thwart which allows me to keep from looking down when watching the screen. I was curious as to mounting under the crossbar as in your pictures. does any one have any thoughts on this? center of gravity? 'looking down'? other advantages/disadvantages to mounting either way? I like the short transducer cord too.
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03/06/2013 02:47PM |
1.3 pounds with batteries.
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03/06/2013 03:05PM |
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03/06/2013 03:38PM |
moonman.
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03/18/2015 02:45PM |
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12/17/2014 11:21PM |
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12/16/2014 09:05AM |
However, several years ago I purchased the Spring Creek Clamp-on Transducer and it has worked great! Not only for the Boundary Waters, but it works great on my Canadian Walleye trips with motorboats!
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12/16/2014 10:57AM |
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05/22/2013 01:58PM |
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01/07/2011 03:21PM |
Someone told us that putting petroleum jelly on the suction cup for the transducer will help it form a seal and stick a whole lot better. No problems since we tried that.
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01/07/2011 03:14PM |
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01/07/2011 09:31PM |
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01/07/2011 09:42PM |
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04/01/2011 02:45AM |
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01/11/2011 04:24PM |
http://www.humminbird.com/leading_innovation/humminbird-sonar/dualbeam-plus.aspx
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01/11/2011 01:09PM |
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06/05/2011 01:41AM |
quote BigAl2: "Hey Bobbwca: about Eagle Cuda 300. Did you find a way to connect the transducer to the suction cup? I bought a suction cup, but so far have not been able to come up with a method to attach the suction cup to the transducer. The suction cup came with a plastic bracket which attaches to the suction cup and the transducer. It is made to attach to the back of a boat. If the suction cup is attached to the side of a canoe, the transducer would then face 90 degrees out from the canoe (wrong orientation) with this plastic bracket. "Darrel Brauer" in his article in BWJ (journal) about the a Eagle Cuda 300 does not give much detail aoout how He does this. He said to adjust the bracket in a vise and with pliers, but that is all. Sure wish I had your email address, so I could contact you Bobbwca !"
Before all the e-mails I never thought much about the suction cup mount transducer angle from the canoe. Anyways I had a slow day at work and made this.
I used 3/4 in. Aluminum square tubing for the new mounting bracket. Stainless bolts and washers. I had to use a longer bolt to mount it to the suction cup. The Eagle Cuda and everything else fits into a small bag and weighs about 3.5 pounds, including batteries.
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05/01/2011 09:19PM |
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05/01/2011 09:06PM |
http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062251
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05/01/2011 09:08PM |
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02/26/2013 07:58AM |
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02/26/2013 09:33AM |
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02/26/2013 02:41PM |
the lowrance was awsome last year, you can pick them up used for around $150.
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03/09/2013 06:44AM |
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03/10/2013 11:29AM |
Surprise - Navico was created by the merger of Eagle and Lowrance in 2006.
I'd be interested in hearing from any X-4 owners in BWCA-land. Are these newer low-cost locators any better for identifying/discriminating fish, compared to the older units?