Boundary Waters Quetico Forum :: Gear Forum :: Pure Solo
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justpaddlin |
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HappyHuskies |
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VaderStrom |
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Ole496 |
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justpaddlin |
I've always knelt but am shopping for a sitting boat to let me avoid knee pain and spend more time on the water. I do have five other (essential) solos that do very well at the things that aren't the strengths of the Advantage (or Magic). I tried Swift's 16.8 Cruiser last year and didn't like it. I appreciate the experience and wisdom shared on this thread. |
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PVnRT |
Still, would like to know thoughts regarding graphite vs kevlar in these crafts. The Magic I'm considering is graphite, and the Advantage is kevlar. |
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Banksiana |
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butthead |
butthead |
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ZaraSp00k |
butthead: "Advantage matched the handling with a very minor speed advantage. butthead" Or as Gene Jensen said, "You can make a fast boat turn, but you cannot make a slow boat go fast". I've paddled both, but never owned either. I'd say butthead & Banksiana have hit the nail on the head in their comparisons. My two cents added is that if you are sit & switch... Advantage. Anything else... Magic. |
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butthead |
Despite the different appearance Magic is a bit wider tween gunnels and has a bit of rocker, Advantage has no rocker but makes up for that with better paddle placement due to a bit narrower width tween the gunnels. Far as sea-worthiness I have paddled a Magic in whitecaps same as my Advantage. Crossed Bailey Bay to PP in near whitecap wave conditions accompanied by Magics. Honestly there is very little difference beyond each craft's idiosyncrasies. Why do I paddle an Advantage after experience in both? It is a tad less common is the only real reason. I'd be as happy and do the same paddling with a Magic! butthead |
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justpaddlin |
Blatz: "justpaddlin: "I appreciate the insightful comments. I'm considering the same two boats. One question to Advantage owners...are you also happy with the handling on rivers (in current)?" Just current. I know that neither is a whitewater boat. I do a lot of upstream paddling on rivers. I like efficiency for driving against current and I tend to use obstacles on the edge of the river to minimize exposure to the main current, but I need some cooperation when I have to go around obstacles and stick the bow into the main current. It sounds like the Advantage is cooperative for a race boat. I hope my favorite dealer has both Magic and Advantage in stock. |
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Blatz |
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Beast388 |
PVnRT: "Thanks for the thoughtful responses. Seems like a win/win situation. I have a background in composites professionally. Regarding the Graphite/Carbon vs Kevlar......the short answer is graphite is stiffer and lighter, but less wear resistant than Kevlar. It is also more expensive (& attractive IMHO). Resin infused graphite is sandable….resin infused Kevlar just fuzzes when sanded. The Kevlar fibers are just more resistant to shearing or breaking. Anyone who has tried to cut both cloths with sheers will see that as well. Both boat constructions will take on damage if contacted with rocks in the BWCA, so neither should be paddled to the portage with reckless abandon. :) |
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Banksiana |
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ewbeyer |
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Blatz |
justpaddlin: "I appreciate the insightful comments. I'm considering the same two boats. One question to Advantage owners...are you also happy with the handling on rivers (in current)?" Are you talking mild rapids or just current? In a current, it's a champ. I've been paddling mine in high water strong current most of the Spring. |
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Ole496 |
No canoe is really fast. But, both hulls are faster than most others with the Advantage being the quickest of the two. The Magic works better in the chop than the Advantage, but I stayed off the lake with winds over 15 mph. It’s not much fun fighting the wind anyway. The Magic is more maneuverable and it does have a better on-the-water feel (response) to it. The Advantage is sterile, like it’s on a rope or like a knife edge thru the water, more efficient, crazy long glide and stays on line across the lake which requires less input to keep it straight. It’s really fun to slice thru the water with it. It was exactly what I was looking for. I use mine for exercise and I love blasting down the shoreline. I can fly using a kayak paddle, but usually use sit and switch. I’m less tired and cover more water in a shorter amount of time in the Advantage. I’m not very patient and when I have a destination in mind I like to get there. I can sit in a Wenonah tractor seat for hours, but need a cushion if I’m on a flat seat. The Magic is a perfect tripping canoe and the Advantage is a racing hull. Each canoe can be used either way with subtle characteristics and compromises. I still can’t decide which I like the most. I don’t do solo trips so the Advantage is better suited to how I use it. I hope that helps. |
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butthead |
PVnRT: "Thanks for the thoughtful responses. Seems like a win/win situation. If you order a new construction Advantage you probably could get graphite. Among other personalized options like wood trim and a smaller Kevlar seat. It's available in some of the other Wenonah models, and the Advantage is not listed in catalogs but can still be ordered I do believe. butthead |
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Beast388 |
I haven't tripped with it yet, but many here have with the same canoe. Hopefully, in early June, I'll be able to paddle it in the BWCA. |
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Banksiana |
butthead: " Far as sea-worthiness I have paddled a Magic in whitecaps same as my Advantage. Crossed Bailey Bay to PP in near whitecap wave conditions accompanied by Magics. Honestly there is very little difference beyond each craft's idiosyncrasies. The Advantage is a champ in rough conditions if you're heading into the wind. The Magic has a definite edge if the seas are coming perpendicular to direction of travel. |
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PVnRT |
I decided to shift to a dedicated solo and am considering two boats currently on the used market: Kevlar Wenonah Advantage and Graphite Bell Magic. I'll be paddling my neighborhood lake four days per week and trip in the BWCA three times per season (5 night max/trip.) Thoughts? |
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singlebladecanoe |
butthead: "PVnRT: "Thanks for the thoughtful responses. Seems like a win/win situation. That is correct. Wenonah has not re listed the Advantage on their site or catalogs. But it is still available to order. And it can be ordered in the graphite. I have a 2020 model in that combination. So far I love it. |
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justpaddlin |
PVnRT: "Thanks for the thoughtful responses. Seems like a win/win situation. I think the BlackLite is a superb choice for a Magic. It actually adds 2 pounds and you get an extremely stiff and strong boat in return. I have a BlackLite Polaris tandem and two older Bell BlackGold solos and the solos can really take a beating (my Polaris hasn't seen much abuse yet). I accidentally ran my BlackGold Merlin II full power into a submerged concrete barrier (the boat bounced hard off the concrete - twice) and it just put a bb size chip in the gelcoat. The BlackLite and BlackGold both use a combination of Aramid (Kevlar) and graphite so in principle you get the stiffness of graphite plus the toughness of Aramid. I'm not as familiar with Wenonah lay-ups but they seem to use the graphite for added stiffness and reduced weight while the Northstar canoes use it for stiffness and added durability so presumably they don't just swap Kevlar for graphite like Wenonah, they add more fabric. Outfitters rent both Northstars and Wenonahs in lightweight Kevlar so I think again you have a win/win choice and can't really go wrong. |
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mr.barley |
I paddled the Magic for a few years and decided I preferred the Advantage I had sold. It took me a couple years to find the used Advantage I wanted and then I sold my Magic. They're both fine canoes, but, personally, I prefer the Advantage. The Advantage is faster, but the Magic has some rocker and turns a bit easier. Either will serve you well. |
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Blatz |
gopher2307: "I'm a Prism owner. I struggle at times to get my pack to fit laying down inside the 26" wide gunwales. I assume you all must have a relatively narrow pack or two with the magic or advantage? Seems like a downside to me, but clearly the narrower canoes would be faster." I've fit a GG Quetico, Kondos Outfitter Special and a CCS Explorer laying flat with no trouble removing them. |
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Blatz |
justpaddlin: "Just current. I know that neither is a whitewater boat. I do a lot of upstream paddling on rivers. I like efficiency for driving against current and I tend to use obstacles on the edge of the river to minimize exposure to the main current but I need some cooperation when I have to go around obstacles and stick the bow into the main current. I never shuttle. Upstream, then down for me. We've had some heavy rains at times this Spring in NE Illinois. The Des Plaines river is aggressively flowing. A typical upstream speed lately has been 3-4 mph. That's using sit and switch, shortening the stroke, and increasing the cadence a bit. Great uphill canoe. |
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gopher2307 |
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bhouse46 |
I had been kayaking after losing my paddling partners and now use a kayak paddle with the Magic. There is a lot of discussion on which paddle, another important decision. I raise this as I believe the Advantage has a wider gunnel. I tried a Prism and the Magic when I was looking and hit my knuckles on the gunnel of the Prism, not so much on the Magic. If it is important, scratches tend to be more noticeable with the carbon boats, the white on black stands out. |