Boundary Waters Quetico Forum :: Gear Forum :: Barrel or hang?
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LoopyLoons |
LoopyLoons |
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bobbernumber3 |
Savage Voyageur: "Five gallon pail with gamma seal lid near camp. " +1. Simple. Easy. |
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TipsyPaddler |
boonie: "I now also use an Ursack with the OPsack. My food is mostly dehydrated/freeze-dried...As others have mentioned, keeping things clean and minimizing odors is also key. My approach now as well. So far only bears I have seen were at camp grounds and outfitters’ properties around the edges of the BWCA. |
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Ausable |
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A1t2o |
No method is fully bear proof. Hanging, which is our alternative, doesn't seem to have any better of a track record and has it's own risks. And that's IF you find a decent hanging tree. I just got sick of climbing trees to get down snagged ropes and struggling to get a heavy pack more than 6-8 feet off the ground. |
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TrailZen |
billconner: "Loopy - few issues here have less consensus than this one. Whichever you go with, keep camp clean and beware mice are a bigger concern than bears. This has been our approach for over 40 years. To Bill's mention of "the tradition and sport" of hanging the food pack, I must add "entertainment"--my wife has had many laughs (at my expense, of course) during some of my food hanging efforts. TZ |
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chessie |
Having a bear in camp is not only dependent on your tidiness, but also the tidiness of the parties before you. We've had 1 incident of a bear in camp on the Horse portage. Clearly not his/her 1st rodeo. We keep a clean camp, do not cook smelly stuff (no meat/fish, etc.), .... this bear came in at dusk, and came back at dawn. She was already conditioned to this site, even though she scored zero from us. (btw, we bailed - opted to delay breakfast and skedaddle, as she got increasingly aggressive/resistant to leaving). Even when we bring bear vaults for food I still throw in a good rope, for safety/rescue purposes. |
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HighnDry |
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HighnDry |
billconner: "Loopy - few issues here have less consensus than this one. Whichever you go with, keep camp clean and beware mice are a bigger concern than bears. +1 on the level of positive debate this has provoked over the years :). I look forward to this discussion whenever it pops up because I'm always interested in how others accomplish the security of their food stashes. I regularly carry a blue barrel but I don't always hang it depending on what's available at a site and/or the season. Early shoulder season outings tend to cut me slack on stashing my barrel in the woods. A bungie cord and a pile of pots with a rock help secure it in place and set an alarm in case a bear finds it. Ursacks and bear vittles containers are interesting adaptations and I could see myself going that way on some trips to save weight and bulk of what I'd have to carry over a portage. Just some food for thought. |
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ockycamper |
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HappyPaddle22 |
I have always hung my food packs until last year. I tried a barrel for the first time and I really liked it. The only things I didn't like about the barrel, is the shape makes it somewhat harder to organize things, and it can be a little uncomfortable while portaging. With the CCS food packs, I like the rectangle shape, it seems like it would be a little easier to organize than the barrels. However, I have never used one and dont know anyone who has. If the food packs were more "bear resistant" I think it'd be a no brainer for me. If I do go barrel route, I will purchase the CCS barrel pack because it looks comfy and I like the extra pockets. Thanks for any input on this! |
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billconner |
I have also observed that many reported bear incidents seem to be during the day when the group is out fishing or day tripping. We nearly always move everyday or, if laying over, stay in camp because if weather. In other words, we are always in vicinity of the food pack. Might be considerations. Relative to barrels, canisters, ursaks, etc., I'm inclined to believe the food pack is lightest and least expensive solution. YMMV |
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canoe212 |
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salukiguy |
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lindylair |
We bought a couple Bear Vaults a few years ago and guess what...I don't miss the "tradition" of hanging the packs anymore. When you are done with the food for the night walk them out into the woods a ways and stash them, not on a trail of any kind. Just remember where you put them:) We still hang any excess food and trash the first night or two until there is room in the Bear Vaults for all of it, but have much less concern about it - if a bear gets that it is of little consequence. BV's make solid food storage options that are weatherproof and rodent proof which is often a bigger concern than bears anyways - and they also make good places to sit as long as they are fully closed. You won't ever catch me hanging our primary food supply again. |
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billconner |
I get 20-25 person-days in my CCS, roughly 7 times the volume of theBV500 - 700 cu in. |
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HappyPaddle22 |
campnfish:"I have the Condos Food pack which is almost the same as the CCS food pack, i also have a barrel harness from Granite Gear for both a 30l and 60l. I have torn every barrel harness i've ever used, from trying to grab them by one strap and sling them up, might move on to ostrom and see if that's any better. I love the Condos food pack for comfort, so much better than a harness and barrel, and also the shape as you described makes it easier to see into. The barrel is critter proof, but the CCS/Condos pack is sealed with a zipper, so im not sure mice would get into one either, hasn't happened yet." Do you mainly use the food pack then? And have you tried the CCS barrel harness packs? I am leaning towards the 60L barrel and CCS harness. I am the one who organizes and plans food for every trip, and I am usually traveling in a group of 4 sometimes 5 or 6. And when it is just the GF and the dog, I figured the 60L barrel would be plenty for food plus our cookware. I do really like the shape of the food pack though, so I am torn at the moment. Eventually I will have both systems in all sizes |
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scottiebaldwin |
Speckled: "LoopyLoons: "Soooooooo I may have another question. Do you guys prefer to have a bear grade barrel or to hang your food sack from a tree? I would gladly read the pros and cons in preparation of being the mastermind behind my future adventures. As always happy paddling. " So true, all of this! |
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scottiebaldwin |
portagedog09: "Always a hider, not a hanger for the many reasons already offered. I have gone to the 30L blue barrels - rodent proof, bear resistant, water proof, crush proof (nearly...), contains smells, makes a good seat or table, or adhoc washing machine. I now have the CCS 30L barrel packs (which will also fit an 8 gal. bucket, btw) w/ pockets. If buying again, I'd go w/o pockets - they don't fit much and are always in the bilge (if you lay them down...) and stuff gets crushed in them. Put a layer or two of closed cell foam pad (i.e. - sleeping pad....) in the bottom of the pack - it protects the fabric from getting contact worn by the heavy barrel on granite/gravel. Before going to the CCS packs, I fit two 30L's side by side in a Granite Gear #4 pack - they really won't fit in anything else - again, pad the bottom to save wear/tear on the pack fabric and put a closed cell sleeping pad inside the pack around the barrels w/ the doubled up side at your back for more padding. Good for 4-6 people for 10 days, nothing but food, but can get real heavy. Thus going to the CCS packs. (note - LOVE the lower grab loop on the CCS packs!) With 2-4 people, I can get the kitchen in there too. Have not done the barrel harness thing (you can use the CCS packs as just packs too - so more versatile) and have not done the 60L...to large for me and fewer config options. Note - a 10" frying pan will fit into a 30L barrel - if you squeeze (oval...) the mouth of the barrel a bit. My $.02.....FWIW. Also, ditch the ziplocs and get a food sealer - water proof/smell proof and you can make almost any size bag you need. Note - don't vaccum everything, just seal the bags. A 'vaccumm' sealed bag of dried fruit becomes a single lump of fruit, so just seal, not vaccum. Just sayin'...." Every word of this is very sage advice. |
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LoopyLoons |
ockycamper: "Our groups bring Bear Vaults BV500s. We feel they are better the Ursacks as the food can not be smashed, rodents can't get in the bags, and the barrels are clear so you can see what's inside. Also, they can be used as chairs or tables. I typically bring one BV500 per day for a group of 6 men. That is breakfast and dinner for 6 guys each day. I divided the bear vaults between the canoes, two to a canoe. We have never had one breached and we have had bear and moose in camp." I may get one if the budget allows. Just have to buy my hammock and water filter then I can go hog wild with other stuff. Thanks. Happy paddling, LoopyLoons |
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billconner |
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OCDave |
Feel so much better now that I've bared that here. |
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lindylair |
We usually only hang the first night or two and that is trash and anything bulky - we like to bring a pack of 6 bagels with us and they usually are hung the first day or two until they fit in the BV. It is so much nicer to just walk them out into the woods at dusk than trying to find a good hanging tree and execute it properly. Don't miss that. So far no issues and it's been quite a few years. I have confidence in them and that helps too. |
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timatkn |
REI, Piragis in Ely, Duluth pack store, there is a store in Grand Marais that has them too...all of these are variable when they have them. Not always in stock. I am sure many places in Ely have them other than Piragis, that’s all I can remember at the moment. T |
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HappyPaddle22 |
portagedog09: "Always a hider, not a hanger for the many reasons already offered. I have gone to the 30L blue barrels - rodent proof, bear resistant, water proof, crush proof (nearly...), contains smells, makes a good seat or table, or adhoc washing machine. I now have the CCS 30L barrel packs (which will also fit an 8 gal. bucket, btw) w/ pockets. If buying again, I'd go w/o pockets - they don't fit much and are always in the bilge (if you lay them down...) and stuff gets crushed in them. Put a layer or two of closed cell foam pad (i.e. - sleeping pad....) in the bottom of the pack - it protects the fabric from getting contact worn by the heavy barrel on granite/gravel. Before going to the CCS packs, I fit two 30L's side by side in a Granite Gear #4 pack - they really won't fit in anything else - again, pad the bottom to save wear/tear on the pack fabric and put a closed cell sleeping pad inside the pack around the barrels w/ the doubled up side at your back for more padding. Good for 4-6 people for 10 days, nothing but food, but can get real heavy. Thus going to the CCS packs. (note - LOVE the lower grab loop on the CCS packs!) With 2-4 people, I can get the kitchen in there too. Have not done the barrel harness thing (you can use the CCS packs as just packs too - so more versatile) and have not done the 60L...to large for me and fewer config options. Note - a 10" frying pan will fit into a 30L barrel - if you squeeze (oval...) the mouth of the barrel a bit. My $.02.....FWIW. Also, ditch the ziplocs and get a food sealer - water proof/smell proof and you can make almost any size bag you need. Note - don't vaccum everything, just seal the bags. A 'vaccumm' sealed bag of dried fruit becomes a single lump of fruit, so just seal, not vaccum. Just sayin'...." Great tips! Thanks! Does anyone know if the 30L or 60L barrels are sold in any stores in Minnesota? I want to buy one but would like to avoid the $25 shipping cost. Thanks |
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HappyPaddle22 |
timatkn: "Midwest mountaineering usually has them, call ahead... Awesome, thank you! I am pretty sure REI doesn't carry them anymore though. I will give Midwest Mountaineering a call, love that store! |
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boonie |
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billconner |
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ockycamper |
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Blatz |
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mschi772 |
sns: "Last year I recall the forest service made hanging or true "bear resistant" containers required for Alpine, Seagull, Jasper, Red Rock and Rog. I think that was temporary, but such restrictions could always happen again if people misbehave enough to embolden local bears. EDIT: The order stated the restrictions would remain in effect until specifically withdrawn, and I can't find any official withdrawal of them anywhere. I thought I remembered reading they ended, but I can't find any evidence that the USFS ever actually ended the restriction. |
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Scout64 |
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LoopyLoons |
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boonie |
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sns |
Anyone know if that was temporary, just for last year, or is it still in effect? Depending on OP's route, that could have an impact. |
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billconner |
I have hung food pack for 20 years, look forward to the tradition and sport if it, and have finished every trip with too much food and all intact. I will add I have never left food at a site alone. Besides a rope and pulleys are least expensive option. |
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unshavenman |
HappyPaddle22: "Does anyone have experience with the CCS Food Packs? We started out hanging our food pack but years ago switched to a blue barrel for the convenience. If it's just two of us we use a 30L barrel and actually trip with it in a CCS insulated food pack which is much more comfortable than a barrel harness. The 30L barrel will fit in either the solo or deluxe size pack, and the remaining room is filled with the camp kitchen. Once in camp the barrel gets stashed in the woods. If it's a party of four, then we bring a 60L barrel in the CCS barrel harness. The insulated food pack still comes with and contains the first night's steaks and the first morning's fresh breakfast, as well as the Helinox tables and Sunset chairs and the camp kitchen. |
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dschult2 |
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woodsandwater |
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Speckled |
LoopyLoons: "Soooooooo I may have another question. Do you guys prefer to have a bear grade barrel or to hang your food sack from a tree? I would gladly read the pros and cons in preparation of being the mastermind behind my future adventures. As always happy paddling. " My food protection plan varies; Sober - Food pack is hung from the tree. Buzzed - Food Pack is hid in the brush ala Cliff Jacobson. Drunk - Food pack is forgot by the fire pit. Hammered - Food pack is randomly slung into the woods. Makes for a fun game of "where the hell did my pack go?" next morning. All kidding aside...I pretty much hang my pack. Some camps have better trees than others, but I can almost always find a tree. I don't do the blue barrel thing as it seems to bulky. I won't carry a food specific pack, just a small stuff sack with my stove, pot and pan and some food. It doesn't take up much space in the pack. |
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campnfish |
HappyPaddle22: "Does anyone have experience with the CCS Food Packs? I have the Condos Food pack which is almost the same as the CCS food pack, i also have a barrel harness from Granite Gear for both a 30l and 60l. I have torn every barrel harness i've ever used, from trying to grab them by one strap and sling them up, might move on to ostrom and see if that's any better. I love the Condos food pack for comfort, so much better than a harness and barrel, and also the shape as you described makes it easier to see into. The barrel is critter proof, but the CCS/Condos pack is sealed with a zipper, so im not sure mice would get into one either, hasn't happened yet. |
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Savage Voyageur |
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mgraber |
TrailZen: "billconner: "Loopy - few issues here have less consensus than this one. Whichever you go with, keep camp clean and beware mice are a bigger concern than bears. I have to agree with you both on all points, especially about keeping your wife entertained. Mine has had many a good laugh at my expense, lol. Eventually, I almost always get it 10 feet up and 6 feet out. |
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LoopyLoons |
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HayRiverDrifter |
bobbernumber3: "Savage Voyageur: "Five gallon pail with gamma seal lid near camp. " Yep. |
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billconner |
"ADK rents and sells the Garcia Backpacker’s Cache at the High Peaks Information Center, and also supports the use of the Counter Assault Bear Keg and the Wild Ideas Bearikade. The BearVault and Frontiersman bear canisters are not effective in the High Peaks Wilderness. Bear hangs, including Ursacks, are not legal alternatives." |
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portagedog09 |
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RT |
Standard Cloth Food Pack: Pros: Super easy to get into and out of the canoe. Easy to portage. Easy to hang up during the night. Pockets! Cons: Wonky fit on the back when portaging after you start eating through your food. If you forget to hang it the little animals (pine martins, chipmunks, et al) WILL get in and eat stuff. Not waterproof. If you are in a burn are you are going to have a hard time (sometimes) finding a good tree to hang your bag. Blue Barrel: Pros: Waterproof. Great to portage. Makes for a good table for cutting food. Easy to hide off trail during the night. Easy to hang if you use the hang handles on the pack rigging (don't hang from the backpack straps... found that out the hard way). Cons: Can be a pain in the butt to get in and out of the canoe when full. No matter what anyone tells you, it isn't "bear proof". Kind of annoying nearing the end of the trip when it is mostly empty. At the end of the day, I still use both depending on the length of the trip and the food I am bringing. If I am doing a solo or a paddle with just one friend I will run the cloth pack. During my yearly group trip, it is the barrel (2 actually) in order to feed 6 people and not worry about the cloth. Hopefully this is helpful. |
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A1t2o |
ockycamper: "Just to point out, there is a big difference in the Bear Vaults like the BV 500 and the blue barrels. Bear Vaults are bear proof, blue barrels are not. We started out with blue barrels. The larger kind. Fully packed no one wanted to lift or portage them. The group likes the Bear Vaults much better as they weigh less packed then a blue barrel." I use a 30L blue barrel. If we are going on a longer trip and have more food than that, then we bring a second food pack that is much easier to hang. With double portaging, I find that gear/personal packs including tackle boxes on the first portage, then canoe and food pack on the second trip works best. Having 1 food pack in each canoe helps spread out the load. Then when one food pack gets emptied, that person can carry paddles and water bottles. |
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jrlatt |
Sow removed a 30l barrel from tree and then walked away. I have used a barrel. I now use a bear vault. I do hang the trash bag if it does not fit in a food container. I have a tennis ball that i ran a loop through for getting the line over a branch. Dutch sells a pct stick. my two cents. |