Boundary Waters Quetico Forum :: Gear Forum :: Inflatable PFD for Canoe Trips
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singlebladecanoe |
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butthead |
Mine was a bit heavy and eventually replaced with a much lighter more minimal Astral YTV. I did test it just last year though. It worked fine, to the amazement of an 8 year old grandson! butthead |
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tumblehome |
It's the first time I've ever tipped in my life, and it didn't go down the way I thought it would since I have thought about it many times. I will say that a manual inflating option might kill you. You don't know you've spilled until you are already under water. When I spilled, I didn't know what had happened until I realized I was in the water and I was bobbing like a bobber because I had my PFD on. Myself and all my gear was slowly floating down a river at the mouth of a small rapids I was trying to paddle upstream. The tip of my canoe caught some current and spun me sideways then filled my canoe with water. So if you are floating in a river and you see: Your pack, your paddle, your canoe, your map case, your portage yoke, your boots... What do you grab first? It turns out you have to grab all of it. I corralled all my stuff like cattle and swam my canoe and gear to a shoreline. That's the short story. A PFD probably saved my life that day. Tom |
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burgydancer |
I am also one of those that shakes my head at paddlers not wearing their vests. It doesn't do you much good if your PFD floats away without you in it. The automatic inflatable vests? Well, I admit I sometimes get wet with my canoeing. It is part of the fun for me. I second the note on Kokatat life vests. I have one which gives me a lot of mobility. |
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arm2008 |
butthead: "Rearming kits can be made/assembled from parts. $2 per 16G CO2 powerlet I think the full inflatable suspenders need a 24G, and the required Inflator Replacement Indicator Pins $1 apiece. Total $3 for full arming kit. I didn't realize this. The cost of the rearming kits is what has turned me away every time I looked at the inflatables. Time to reconsider. |
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mjmkjun |
I don't know about all models but mine can be reconfigured to be blown up if the cartridge is engaged and it deflates. In that scenario, you'd wear a PFD that is inflated for the rest of the trip. |
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Savage Voyageur |
pswith5: "I am curious if it is troublesome to switch modes. In case you find yourself in heavy spray or a big storm.?" It’s really easy and fast to change from automatic to manual mode. You just unscrew the clear plastic cap and remove the button. Put both in a waterproof bag for later. Then included and installed on the other side of the PFD in a small pocket there is a Yellow cap. Install the yellow cap by screwing it on where you just removed the clear cap. Done. The Yellow cap has a warning tag that dangles outside the PFD so you and anyone that puts it on understands that it is in a manual mode, not automatic mode. |
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ockycamper |
The inflatables have all the flotation in the front and are also thicker in the front when inflated. A quality PFD like a Chinook or Kokateck has flotation in front and back which makes in much thinner in the front. I don't know of anyone that has successfully got back in a canoe or kayak with an inflatable inflated. In my view. . .inflatables only do one thing better then standard PFD's. . .and that is they are more comfortable. Our groups do everything with the idea of "what would we do/bring/wear if we absolutely knew we would go in the water?". Could you swim 50-100 yards in an inflatable? What about getting back in a canoe. We have done both with standard PFD's. Also we go in late September when water and air temps are colder. I simply won't take a chance on a life saving device that "may" work vs one that always works. |
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Savage Voyageur |
I’m sure if I fell out of a canoe I could swim 10 feet back to the canoe. I’m also sure if I fell out of a canoe I could swim 50 or 100 yards wearing it. We used to swim all the time in these as a kid at the lakes. Getting back into a canoe I’m not sure about because of the inflatable part getting in the way. But for that matter I would have a hard time getting in a canoe anyways. As far as water temperature in September I just went swimming yesterday in a lake in northern Minnesota, it was October 11th and I was in for 15 min no problems. So it sounds like your trip mates PFD worked just as designed, they went into the water and they deployed. Thanks for responding, but we still disagree on this one. I will continue to use my Coast Guard Approved PFD when canoeing and kayaking. Happy paddling. |
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andym |
For small sailboats that can capsize, people don't use inflatables because we tend to capsize a lot and even practice it. Those boats don't get away from you because if you capsize and are in the water then the boat is almost always on its side and right next to you. If it stays upright then a properly designed boat should point itself into the wind and come close to a stop. The hybrid I have my eye on is the Mustang Survival Khimera. It provides 7.5 lbs of floatation from foam and has manual inflation to go to 25 lbs but does it in a better shape than the standard inflatables. It seems like it would be very comfortable for paddling and sailing all sizes of boats. I probably wouldn't use it for offshore sailing where I'd rather have a foam PFD or auto-inflating. For small sailboats that capsize easily, I generally have on a wet suit and so that adds some floatation too. Note that the company says that the Khimera is only for good swimmers. It's nice to have lots of choices. |
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Wally13 |
Expensive for sure but rated the best by professional boaters, kayakers, etc Mustang Hydrostatic PFD |
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Savage Voyageur |
In June I took my Onyx-24 with me on my annual canoe trip. I really liked it on the long days on the water in 90 deg weather. |
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ockycamper |
dschult2: "Ok, I know this isn't answering your question but have you tried a NRS Chinook? High back for kayak or seat backers, and lots of pockets, mesh, and adjustments." I am also a kayaker and use the Chinook PFD in my kayak. The vest is designed to use in kayaks and has the flotation very high up on the back. Lots of pockets on the front. I also have a back pocket on it as well, up high on the vest. I can carry a first aid kit, compass, whistle, kayak style knife, gps, Spot X messenger and a few other items no problem on the vest with no comfort problems in either kayak or canoe. |
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ockycamper |
I don't allow them on our trips as I won't risk someone capsizing and the PFD's failing to inflate for whatever reason. Why gamble on an inflatable when you know the standard PFD will save you 100% of the time. . .even if you are knocked unconscious when capsizing? |
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Blackdogyak |
After that, I converted it to manual. If you are just quietly paddling flatware on a nice day, it's probably going to be fine in auto mode. If there's any rain or spray in the environment, my experience is that it will activate at some point. |
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andym |
Personally, I like the idea of the hybrid units in manual mode. |
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Savage Voyageur |
ockycamper: "We had two guys paddle with us several years ago. They capsized just 20 minutes into the paddle and their inflatable PFD's inflated. They rode up on their necks and were difficult for them to work with in the water. That afternoon they capsized again and they had to keep the PFD's inflated as they only had one recharge. Have you ever had one not inflate when you hit the water. Just wondering why all the concerns and not letting trip mates go with you that have these. They would not be Coast Guard approved if they were not safe and gone through extensive testing. I have personally witnessed it go off. It took all of one second to inflate after hitting the water. |
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Blackdogyak |
Pinetree: "As a person whom is rough on things, I would worry about punturing a inflatable with a hook or something else. I throw my PFD on the rocks at camp etc. Also how does the the rubber or whatever material last without aging? The vests are constructed with and outer Cordura she'll....and the air bladder folded up.imside. When the CO2 inflates it, it splits open the two vertical chest segments along a Velcro seam and the air bladders pop.oit. You could bang the thing on rocks all day....it won't affect the air bladders inside. |
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butthead |
RMinMN: "My inflatable PFD is branded SOSpenders and the rearming kit was $40 on Amazon. It takes a 38 gram cartridge which are not common nor cheap. When I look for a kit now most places show them out of stock." Just to be clear, the re-arming kits from inflatable makers are expensive, but not the parts. The 38g co2 cartridges are not hard to source or that expensive, 38g spear gun cartridge The re-armed pins can be found in bunches also. The co2 cartridges are used in soft drink mixers/paint ball guns/spearguns/plumbing supplies/bike tire inflators ----------------- You just need to match the neck style and size. butthead |
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PineKnot |
Anyway, after trying multiple regular vests, I'm thinking of getting an inflatable. Not interested in the "auto" inflatables for obvious reasons, but maybe the "manual" inflatables. Would be interested in comments from fellow paddlers regarding manual inflatable vests....not looking at cheap types, but not ones too expensive either....thx. |
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PineKnot |
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butthead |
I have a bunch of years comfortable use in a Kokatat SeaO2. It is a hybrid inflatable. Pull cord inflation with 16G CO2 powerlets and extra charge buttons. Fixed 8 pound foam panels. Combined around 24 pounds flotation. It's comfortable but weighs around 2 pounds. Want to try it? I am willing to part with it. butthead |
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RMinMN |
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dschult2 |
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Savage Voyageur |
RMinMN: "Before you buy an inflatable PFD, check what the cost of the cartridges might be. One cartridge may be half the cost of the PFD and it would probably be wise to carry a couple spares along." A rearming kit for mine is $20. |
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Savage Voyageur |
One is if you capsize the second you hit the water the trigger is automatically is released and inflates the vest. Two is in manual mode. In this mode if you fall overboard absolutely nothing will happen until you pull the ripcord. So if you fall overboard in cold water and you gasp for air you probably will drown. Another thing is if you fell overboard and hit your head you might drown. I’m not a fan of this mode but it is an option. In this mode you remove the water soluble trigger button and replace with a plastic cap, you still need to have a full co2 cylinder installed. I suppose you should use this option if it’s raining out so it won’t deploy, or maybe someone working on a dock around waves that might deploy the PFD. The third way to inflate the vest is manual mode. You just locate the tube and blow into the vest. Lots of things could go wrong if you capsized in ice cold water. You might inhale water, gasping for life, trying to remember where or how to inflate it. Fingers might not work very good in cold water to manual inflate. Or hit your head and unconscious. I would only use the manual inflate tube to top off air if air leaked out while in still in the water. I’m not even sure this is legal and counts as a PFD if it has to be manually inflated with your breath. Not sure what your price range is but you can get these at Amazon for $129. A new rearming kit is about $20. I will be in a canoe or kayak in the automatic mode. Even though I’ve never capsized I also bought a rearming kit that goes with me. You never know when you will go for a swim. |
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andym |
Many people I sail with wear auto-inflatables. There's plenty of spray and water flying around. I haven't heard of any accidental inflations. |
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pswith5 |
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bottomtothetap |
The way this is constructed, extremely unlikely that the vest would "go-off" due to rain or even water splashed on it. Water would need to be forced up to the trigger mechanism from the bottom opening of the vest and then the trigger needs to be submerged for 2 seconds before the vest is activated. Once triggered, full inflation takes a couple of seconds as well. If it ever happened that I used both the original and spare triggers, then I would go to my old style vest, which we often carried an extra of (like an extra paddle). No problem bringing that along still since it yet works fine as my seat cushion and now is the group's "extra". |
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ockycamper |
Savage Voyageur: "All PFDs have benefits and disadvantages. Yours probably has lots of pockets to hold gear, mine does not. Mine is comfortable and cool, yours is not. I forget I have a PFD on, others I wear not so much. My comments were just coming from our groups own experience with both types. While the inflatables are clearly more comfortable and cooler, when inflated, a quality PFD like the NRS Chinook (what I wear) offers much better freedom of movement then a vest with all flotation on front. The only reason I hear guys move to inflatables is that they don't like wearing standard PFD's due to being bulky and uncomfortable. They will spend $200 plus on a high end inflatable but have never really tried a quality PFD like the NRS line or the Kokatat line of PFD's. We teach guys canoe re entry on our trips which is much easier in a standard PFD. Maybe our guys are not in as good as shape (probably because we are all 50 to 70 years in age), but we have found through experience that standard PFD's are much easier to swim in the inflatables. If someone refuses to wear a PFD because they are hot and uncomfortable, I am all for the inflatables if that is all they will wear. At least they are in a PFD. I just won't roll the dice on trusting PFD that is supposed to inflate, is almost impossible to get back into a canoe with, and much more difficult to swim in then something like the Chinook. NRS Chinook |
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butthead |
butthead |
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ockycamper |
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Pinetree |
I also agree with comment above, if your a person who would otherwise wear nothing, than it would be for you. Mention by a few about PFD foam location. A good PFD will float you upright, not face down, thus you want more floatation in front. Attended a Coast Guard class talking about some PFD's actually floats you face first down. They have found drowned people in a PFD floating face down. Some PFD actually would flip you face down if unconscious. |
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Pinetree |
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LarryS48 |
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Northwoodsman |
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butthead |
Part of my son's job in the USN was servicing inflatable vests, they used bulk CO2 powerlets. I tested my vest each year and replaced the inflator yearly and some. The photo I used of my SeaO2 shows the powerlet on the valve, the oral inflator, 2 extra powerlets and pins. Very interesting to be on the bottom of a pool and pull the release!!! butthead |
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RMinMN |
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PineKnot |
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muddyfeet |
When fitness paddling on local water, I sometimes wear an onyx M16 belt-pack style SUP inflatable vest. It's the bare minimum of a wicked small vest, and when inflated it really just gives you a chest pillow that makes it all but impossible to do anything but bob upright in the water. I guess you don't really know how it swims until you test it in the water. It's far from the best, but in these situations I'm comfortable with that. I'm on a known river close to shore in nice weather, and sometimes shirt off working hard. I used to just have my PFD tucked under the seat, but I figured that the small inflatable vest I wore was still far better than having a really good one under my seat. When tripping in the wilderness, or paddling marginal conditions, I wear my NRS Ninja closed-cell foam PFD. (the Ninja I modified by moving the shoulder straps outward). Good range of motion, comfortable for all-day wear, and I can portage my canoe/pack without taking it off. |