Boundary Waters Quetico Forum :: Gear Forum :: Satellite Connection Failure?
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brulu |
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MossBack |
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kenpark23 |
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butthead |
Because I am not interested in communications I use a PLB with higher signal power limits and a higher sat constellation for better transmitting success. I had made my decision but this article sealed it for me, Winter Hiking and Survival Guide The Death of Kate Matrosova I'm not criticizing the use of sat communicators, but it is always good to know the limitations of the gear you use. butthead |
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Jaywalker |
MossBack: " I have a Garmin Explorer plus and I live way out in the country. I always have trouble connecting, even with zero overhead cover. Yet when I am in town, it connects almost immediately? When I first bought the device I had trouble everywhere I went. I called Garmin and they actually could pull up a log of all my failed attempts. So they sent me a new one. Puzzling? MB" That’s very weird, because I really doubt that by driving to town you are getting any closer to the satellites! |
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ScottL |
Jaywalker |
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ScottL |
Jaywalker |
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Jaywalker |
ScottL: "Jaywalker Ah, so like Butthead you are a “weather-rock” guy. I respect that. Indeed this situation was the least important use on my trip. I was a mere 1.5 hour paddle from my car. The forecasts I got on the prior 19 days were usually very accurate. Then the day before I had a 10% chance of rain, but it rained all afternoon and night. I just was hoping to find out if I should just pack up and go or make another pot of coffee and sit around a while. |
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MossBack |
andym: This may have been some of my problem. Nearly all of my time trying to get familiar with the In-Reach was in the most humid part of the Southern Indiana summer. Lots of tree foliage. not necessarily directly overhead. |
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gotwins |
butthead: " ACR ResQLink. I'm like Butthead. PLB from ACR plus a NOAA Weather radio, which has never failed me. My current radio is the Sangean DT-400W. Super lightweight, pulls in NOAA weather, as well as WELY, NPR, and 830am at night for Twins games. Also, no subscription fees for either device! |
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billconner |
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Argo |
Like the brochure says, you need a clear view of the sky. If you don't have a clear view and you are getting a signal, consider it a bonus. When I try to get a signal under a tree canopy, I generally just set the command and will hear a ping within 5-10 minutes. As to weather forecasting, I consider the inReach helpful but not reliable. Wind speed and direction are pretty accurate. And as that data point lends itself to paddling, it is is very useful. Rain forecasting is hit and miss in the middle of nowhere. Only other comment I would make is that the antenna quality in a mini may not be as good. However, it seems like your experience has been not much different than mine. |
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Savage Voyageur |
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Ausable |
Perhaps upper atmosphere conditions were particularly bad on the day you had difficulties. Edit: I guess that I should mention that I have an inReach Explorer, not a Mini. |
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Jaywalker |
This past September in Wabakimi on the last morning of my 20 day trip, I woke up to unexpected light rain falling on the tent. I grabbed my Garmin InReach Mini and tried to get a basic weather update but could not get a signal. I had used my Garmin Mini inside my tent many times before without trouble and I did not think I was under especially dense tree canopy. My battery was 80%+. So I went outside to my tarp for breakfast and tried again. Still no satellite signal after several attempts. Again, I had used under my tarp many times. I finally walked out in the rain and set it on an open rock ledge with no trees overhead, and nothing. The rain finally stopped as I packed up, the low cloud cover started to break up a bit, and finally I got my weather update after about an hour of trying. The conditions seemed no different than a lot of the prior days, so I was surprised and a bit bothered. Was this a fluke of satellite positioning? A combination of extra-thick low clouds? User error? I'm wondering if anyone has any theories, or has or has not had similar issues? |
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butthead |
There are other thing to consider also, frequency and distance to the satellites being 2. PLB's are regulated for international search and rescue, so all brands have very similar specifications. Sat com devices have few standard requirements, and built for commercial use including the satellites/messaging transfers. I do a lot of traveling in the western mountain (thanks to retierment) and know how frequent signals drop off plus the lack of cell coverage. I keep the PLB in my vehicle in case of an emergency. butthead |
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MossBack |
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andym |
But that dithering is done at the satellite end. There could be something else the military is doing by emitting noise at ground level but that could cause them problems too. As for wet days, it is the moisture in the leaves that produces problems under a canopy. So more moisture in the atmosphere and see or rain on the leaves can increase the problem. I haven’t used my Inreach Explorer+ enough to have experienced that and I have used it on a very rainy day without a problem. I did have a bit of trouble getting a weather map on my cell phone that day. We were on Lake One and trying to pick a time to paddle to the EP with two little kids while dodging thunderstorms. The lightning was giving the cell phone reception problems downloading radar maps. |
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boonie |
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coffeetalk |
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Jaywalker |
butthead: "The FCC does limit the transmitting power of sat communicators and the satellite constellations used are commercial and often in a fairly low orbit. GPS sat constellations on the other hand are higher often geosynchronous having better and longer coverage. Same for SarSat/ComSat constellations, all these are governmental sponsored and paid for. The sat communicators have to deal with power restrictions and satellite availability which include low angle line of sight. This was an interesting though tragic read. I have always accepted that my ACR PLB would have a stronger transmitting signal, but I have never wondered by how much? The article specifies a PLB (they do not specify brand or model, but assuming it applies to my ACR ResQlink+ that I still have) has a transmitter strength of 5,000 milliwatts, and that a SPOT has 400 milliwatt transmitter. Obviously mathematically that's 4,600 milliwatts less, but I don't have the technical skills to put that into context. I just know its less and seems a lot less. This drove me to look at the Garmin website to try to find out where my InReach Mini would fall on this continuum. All I could find was something on the User Manual PDF about Wireless frequency/protocol. I believe dBm is a measure of signal strength, but I am not sure if that is the transmitter or not. Anyone know? The article also points out that PLB's can operate at colder temperatures, and suggested the colder temps may have been part of why her SPOT sent inaccurate and misleading GPS locations. So was the SPOT unable to accurately know where it was, or was the weaker transmission somehow responsible for sending varied locations? |
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ockycamper |
butthead: "The FCC does limit the transmitting power of sat communicators and the satellite constellations used are commercial and often in a fairly low orbit. GPS sat constellations on the other hand are higher often geosynchronous having better and longer coverage. Same for SarSat/ComSat constellations, all these are governmental sponsored and paid for. The sat communicators have to deal with power restrictions and satellite availability which include low angle line of sight. What model PLB do you use? |
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butthead |
butthead |