Boundary Waters Quetico Forum :: Gear Forum :: Rain gear...again
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Blackdogyak |
Here's an excerpt from an article in Paddling, by Clif Jacobson...who knows a thing or two KILLER RAIN-GEAR. For years I wore a heavy-duty foul weather sailing suit. Now, I've switched to lighter gear. When rains begin, I put on a light Marmot Precip® zip jacket under my PFD. If the storm worsens, I slip a Precip® anorak over the PFD. The anorak doesn't have those awful pit-zips which leak. This twin system keeps me dry-and mobile-in any weather. |
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Pinetree |
iCallitMaize: "I have a frogg togg bib/jacket combo that works well. Java toadz model or something like that. However, like said previously, anything “breathable” will eventually soak through. Outdoorlife has an article addressing this very thing. The writer recommended Grudens or Helly Hansen if I remember correctly. " Not a fan of frogg raingear. seen too many times self destruct. Yes helly Hanson raingear does keep you very dry in harsh conditions. You just have to decide where and how you will be using your gear. Lot of paddlingI would go gore tex. You just have to figure the weight factor etc. Good raingear can make or break your trips enjoyment and in the shoulder seasons it might prevent hypothermia etc. |
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gotwins |
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MississippiDan |
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Blackdogyak |
DMan5501: "Cabela's Gear Guide Gore-Tex... Jacket and pants just over $200. Been using these since 2008. A bonus, they come in tall sizes.. Highly recommended! " Thanks. Some reviews on Cabela's say that jacket soaks through in heavy rain and not really well made. |
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noahj |
That being said it basically just a rain jacket and provides no insulation. I like this as I also carry one of those super lightweight thermoballs, which I wear underneath when it’s cold. I really like this is set up as it’s pretty versatile. But some people prefer a rain jacket that also provides insulation. I guess it’s just personal preference. |
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ockycamper |
The jacket has never soaked through. Make sure you are looking at the Goretex jacket, Cabelas label. The other reason I bought Cabelas is that they are guaranteed for life. |
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ewbeyer |
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Erk |
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fadersup |
Copperdog: "I haven’t had much luck with the big money rain gear. It always wets out eventually on a rainy week and goretex nor eVent have proven to be particularly breathable when portaging a canoe and pack. Plus, it sucks to bushwhack through some thick stuff and forget to take off your high end rain gear. I know of no rain gear that is thorn proof and adequately breathable. I did a cold and rainy trip for 5 days in the ADK this past October and it was cold enough to snow. Rather than take my $300 rain jacket and $150 dollar rain pants, i took some of my older NRS and Immersion Research gear and it worked great! These items are what I use when white water paddling and are probably 13+ years old. No fancy breathable fabric or DWR. No hood was the main reason I chose these, I prefer a wide brimmed hat. But they have adjustable neoprene neck, wrist, ankle gaskets Long story short, they kept me dryer than any of my rain gear, bone dry actually. In the colder weather I did not sweat at all even on some tough portages, and they seemed to wear like iron. I think the closest thing NRS has now to what I wore is the endurance jacket which can be had with or without the hood. This combo may replace my fancy rain gear. This great advice, thank you. |
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EddyTurn |
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ewbeyer |
I have The River Salt wading jacket - 4-layer H2No - patagonia's proprietary fabric - same as their waders, which I am a BIG fan of. 4 years with waders all spring and fall and zero leaks. |
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boonie |
fadersup: "Copperdog: "I haven’t had much luck with the big money rain gear. It always wets out eventually on a rainy week and goretex nor eVent have proven to be particularly breathable when portaging a canoe and pack. Plus, it sucks to bushwhack through some thick stuff and forget to take off your high end rain gear. I know of no rain gear that is thorn proof and adequately breathable. I did a cold and rainy trip for 5 days in the ADK this past October and it was cold enough to snow. Rather than take my $300 rain jacket and $150 dollar rain pants, i took some of my older NRS and Immersion Research gear and it worked great! These items are what I use when white water paddling and are probably 13+ years old. No fancy breathable fabric or DWR. No hood was the main reason I chose these, I prefer a wide brimmed hat. But they have adjustable neoprene neck, wrist, ankle gaskets Long story short, they kept me dryer than any of my rain gear, bone dry actually. In the colder weather I did not sweat at all even on some tough portages, and they seemed to wear like iron. I think the closest thing NRS has now to what I wore is the endurance jacket which can be had with or without the hood. This combo may replace my fancy rain gear. FYI, I can attest to the fact that it will keep you dry, but it will not breathe and options for ventilation are almost nil. |
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Erk |
So, my advice, which isn’t intended to trump anyones opinion or input, is to decide what and how you want to use your rain jacket. If you need rugged or basic. Hood or no hood, but keep in min a true rain jacket isn’t waterproof without a hood. And if you want the detailed bells and whistles. There’s a lot of bad information out there, but it comes from negligence. Sorry not sorry. I heard from an old guy buying camp gear one time looking at nicer stuff.. his response was “I’m too poor to buy cheap” meaning, he can’t afford to constantly replace items. I have owned my Arcteryx SV shell for over a decade, it is still 100% waterproof. I chose this not for the name alone, but for its rep and durability. People cringe when I wear my rain shell working on my house or vehicle. At work in the trees and near chippers. To get ten VERY hard years and keep me dry is half to the product and half cleaning it. Also, your fishing waders and Immersion Research dry tops have a similar setup but of their own proprietary, WITH a DRW. I wasn’t trying to shit on anyones jackets or advice, but a lot of people are under the wrong impression when it comes to waterproofing. Hope you truly do get the answer you’re hoping for. |
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Doublelung76 |
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Freeleo1 |
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Blackdogyak |
ewbeyer: "As a steelheader, I have fallen into the rabbit hole of such gear, much of which is designed to deal with the pacific nw. But, there is no question that the materials patagonia and simms use for their waders also works for their wading jackets. It is pricey, and it is not the lightest, but they are tough and they keep you dry. Material that is somewhat breathable that is designed to keep you dry while standing in a river can handle anything the BW throws at you. I am done with too good to be true packable/micro rain gear. 10-4 Anyone have the Patagonia Torrentshell 3-layer? |
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AirPrex |
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Blackdogyak |
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Copperdog |
Good luck with your search, Barry |
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sns |
Copperdog: "I haven’t had much luck with the big money rain gear. It always wets out eventually on a rainy week and goretex nor eVent have proven to be particularly breathable when portaging a canoe and pack. Plus, it sucks to bushwhack through some thick stuff and forget to take off your high end rain gear. I know of no rain gear that is thorn proof and adequately breathable. I did a cold and rainy trip for 5 days in the ADK this past October and it was cold enough to snow. Rather than take my $300 rain jacket and $150 dollar rain pants, i took some of my older NRS and Immersion Research gear and it worked great! These items are what I use when white water paddling and are probably 13+ years old. No fancy breathable fabric or DWR. " This. I am done with the fancy "breathable" stuff. I now take waterproof, Non-breathable, with good pit-zips. Mechanical ventilation all the way here. |
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iCallitMaize |
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mjmkjun |
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Blackdogyak |
I know that all of these products are compromises, but what I do NOT want is something over $100 that won't last more than a year or two and/or, isn't waterproof. If someone has been using a jacket out there for ten years and it still is great, I'm interested, even if it's very expensive. I like to buy for the long haul but it seems like all this DWR stuff does not fit into that category. Or, as a second best, if there's a good jacket like a Columbia, that is under $100 and definitely works....but might not last more than four or five years, I'd be interested in that too. Helly Hansen who used to make very tough rain gear for commercial fisherman, now has turned 180 degrees and makes $700 jackets for hipsters with daddy's credit card. (My mini-rant for the day.) Thanks guys. |
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DMan5501 |
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WinstonRumfoord |
The shell part works great as a rainjacket. Never soaks through (though I am planning to spray some new dwr on it this spring). Fits great, lots of pockets. And when it gets colder, I zip in the insulated liner. It has big pit vents, which I love. Really makes nice long rainy portages more enjoyable, being able to vent all the heat and sweat. Feeling the material, I had expected it to last only 3 or 4 years because it doesn't feel terribly durable, but it has blown me away in that department. Each day in bwca I'll spend hours buchwacking through the woods, and it has no tears, snags, or any damage yet. I actually currently use it as my main "winter" jacket, too. It has held up in near perfect condition 20+ bwca/canoe camping trips, and countless winter outdoor activities. Fine piece of gear that has performed better than I initially expected, and I consider well worth the money when looking back at the paltry 1.5 seasons my $100 columbia rain jacket lasted before getting torn practically in half while exploring the forest. |
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Bjfinnegan |
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Blackdogyak |
Doublelung76: "Helly Hanson or Grundens pvc rain gear.there’s a reason it’s worn by mates on crab boats,charter boats,etc......it works.keeps you dry,cuts the wind.If its warm enough that sweating inside the gear bothers you it’s probably warm enough to get wet at least on bottom half of body.I’ve been in fish camps at flyin lakes where the guys with goretex gotta dry there stuff by the fire after an all day soaker,my old school stuff drys in minutes and is ready to go!" I have thought about this. I used to wear HH oilskins back when I was commercial fishing. They work. They are definitely not lightweight or packable though. Probably take up 1/3 of my pack! |
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Moonpath |
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YetiJedi |
Four years ago I purchased a marmot minimalist top. Works well. Stay totally dry but it isn't as flexible as I'd like for paddling but that is being a little picky. I use it with Columbia pants (omni something) that cost about $50. It seems my pants always get the snags and have to be repaired or replaced more frequently. Here's all I ever wanted to know about rain gear and I also use their research and ranking publications and find them helpful. Stay dry, my friends! |
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Blackdogyak |
YetiJedi: "My go-to raincoat for the last 10 years has been the Cabela's brand with Goretex...can't remember the specific one and I also have the matching bibs. Work great for me and have kept me dry in some pretty good downpours. I agree with the others - they will soak through eventually but that only happened once when we had to paddle out through a torrential downpour. The soak through was minimal but they probably would've been a little damp if I had to wear them the next day. For all other rainstorms, they worked just fine. They are bulkier, also warmer, so they don't come on July/August trips with me. Some good resources there! Thanks! |
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Jaywalker |
YetiJedi: "…Here's all I ever wanted to know about rain gear …." That was a very interesting and helpful article. I will be in the market for a new rain jacket this spring and am soaking this thread up (sorry about that one!) A couple of topics raised in the article that are sticking with me: 1. People often describe their jacket as Gore-Tex and sometimes mention how old it is, but rarely mention which type of Gore-Tex it is. PAC-lite Plus, regular Gore-Tex, and Gore-Tex Pro are all currently being incorporated into jackets, and the company is constantly for ways to improve their product. I doubt that a Gore-Tex jacket made 10 years ago measures up to todays products. 2. Other brands of ePTFE membranes and DWR finishes are certain to have improved as well over the past 10 years. Prior to this article, I had read the Gore-Tex products tended to come out on top both for water-proofness and breathability, but this article mentioned eVent as surpassing In breathability. 3. This and other articles I’ve read lately stress how important it is to regularly wash your rain gear properly because the pores tend to get clogged from sweat, dirt, oils, etc., then occasionally reap,y a DWR finish. I have to confess I’ve always just hosed my jackets off and let them dry. 4. Regarding fit, I’ve always associated “roominess” with better ventilation and breathability, but this article points out a snugger fit helps maintain more temperature differential, therefore helping to push out more moisture. This is problematic for me because I generally hate snug fit on anything, and for paddling I want something that can go over my PFD. |
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YetiJedi |
Jaywalker: "YetiJedi: "…Here's all I ever wanted to know about rain gear …." Glad it was helpful! I prefer roominess, for sure, especially paddling. That's why I like my older Cabelas gear, more of a jacket with a set of matching bibs, than my newer marmot minimalist. But I will say the minimalist has kept me drier and doesn't soak up the moisture nearly as much. I bring both in May/September and only the marmot in June/July/August. Mostly it's fun to plan for trips, especially when we are looking at water it's solid state! |
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boonie |
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Blackdogyak |
At this point it looks like I will go for the Patagonia Torrentshell 3L (3 layer). It seems to hit everything that's important to me. $150. Now we just wait for a sale. |
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Erk |
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iCallitMaize |
papalambeau: " Throwing this out as a question instead of starting a new thread - Are there any good spray on water repellents to reapply on rain gear? My last two Gore-tex rain suits have worked well for a period of time and then begin to allow moisture in. I have used Camp Dry aerosols but haven't seen much improvement. I've tried about all of them...including the wash-in treatments. I just couldn't get the wash-in to work even though I desperately hoped they would. My favorite performer is Atsko spray on brand. |
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mschi772 |
papalambeau: " Throwing this out as a question instead of starting a new thread - Are there any good spray on water repellents to reapply on rain gear? My last two Gore-tex rain suits have worked well for a period of time and then begin to allow moisture in. I have used Camp Dry aerosols but haven't seen much improvement. As an auto detailer, I reach into the products I use to protect automotive surfaces, and in this case I've been using Gtechniq I1 Smart Fabric after having used and abandoned a number of others. |
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YetiJedi |
On sale for less than $7... |
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papalambeau |
Also, is there a step needed instead of just air drying (tumble dry at low heat in the dryer?)? Cheaper than buying new again if it works. |
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Pinetree |
Blackdogyak: "DMan5501: "Cabela's Gear Guide Gore-Tex... Jacket and pants were just over $200. Been using these since 2008. A bonus, they come in tall sizes. Highly recommended! " I think if you are in multi hours of rain many Goretex garments on the outer surface lose their ability to bead the water off and thus you may get a slow soaking thru even on some gore-tex. Take care of your gore-tex. I also learned don't get cheapy on rain gear especially if you do the cooler weather seasons. |