Boundary Waters Quetico Forum :: Gear Forum :: What to sleep on???
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Cvendel |
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Unas10 |
bottomtothetap: "Fearlessleader: "Interesting. I’d never seen these packable cots. I like the cam lock concept for tensioning the frame. How long have you been using it? |
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iCallitMaize |
Fearlessleader: "I’ve been taking my wife canoe camping for the last 50 years and for most of that time, due to back issues, she has insisted that we use a heavy inflatable air mattress. |
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ockycamper |
Now most of us are in our 60s. Rather then continuing to bring tents, then add the extra weight of cots, insulating pads and sleeping bags, our entire group (14-18 guys age 40's to 70) now use hammocks. No pressure on your back, easy in and out, and if you bring an ultralight 1 lbs hammock, with down underquit and down top quilt you are good to go for under 4 lbs. We had two guys that went with us in the first two years. They brought a four man tent, inflatable air mattress of the type you would use at home for company (double bed size), full size bag chairs, pump for the air mattress and a 115 litre sealline pack each. After carrying most of their gear (they were 65 at the time), we made the rule that everyone in all 3 groups had to carry their own gear. That took care of the large tents, cots, home style air mattresses and huge packs. |
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bottomtothetap |
Fearlessleader: "Interesting. I’d never seen these packable cots. This is the one I use and am satisfied with. I no longer am fighting with the rock or root that's poking me in the back! Low cot |
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breanna |
Fearlessleader: "I’ve been taking my wife canoe camping for the last 50 years and for most of that time, due to back issues, she has insisted that we use a heavy inflatable air mattress. Hello, Fearlessleader. I have a little hiking experience with my bad back (it's a long story). In my opinion, there is nothing better than an air mattress for camping https://mattressella.com/. They are cheap, practical, take up little space when folded, and that to inflate it there is already a large number of electric pumps. You can buy a mattress + pillow set at once it will be more profitable. |
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bottomtothetap |
Unas10: "bottomtothetap: "Fearlessleader: "Interesting. I’d never seen these packable cots. I've used it now for 2 or three seasons. Prior to that I used a Slumberjack Low Cot. Once set up it performed really well too and seemed even a bit more sturdy than the KingCamp but it was at least twice the weight and significantly more difficult to assemble. It almost seemed like you were going to break the thing before the legs would lock into place. I think the weight and assembly may have done in this design from Slumberjack. I see that it's been discontinued. The KingCamp is still readily available. |
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ockycamper |
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Fearlessleader |
This year may be my first trip without her because my son wants me to go with him and two other guys to Woodland Caribou for a week. I have very little experience with what might be my best option for sleeping pads. So what suggestions do you have for an old guy that hopefully won’t break the bank?? |
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AirPrex |
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sns |
But that's not likely relevant to your situation - we need more info. In a tent, presumably, not a hammock? Temps you are anticipating (what time of year)? What's your top insulation? Type/rating for sleeping bag or quilt? Back, side or belly sleeper? Move a lot at night? Do you value light weight, low price or comfort more? You can usually get two out of these three but not all three. Possibly also relevant - your size? |
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pswith5 |
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ppine |
Thermorest Basecamp in dark blue is several inches thick and good sized. Too heavy to backpack. I like it better than Neo Air and other lightweight pads made to carry. |
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gravelroad |
You now have the capacity to carry the “ultralight” backpacking cot I bought a couple years ago for well under a hundred bucks. Ignore the sneering you may encounter - feel free to mock them back with a sunny, sweat-free smile each morning. |
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Fearlessleader |
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deepdish71 |
Fearlessleader: "I’ve been taking my wife canoe camping for the last 50 years and for most of that time, due to back issues, she has insisted that we use a heavy inflatable air mattress. Get 2 exped mega mat 10 pads. We love ours. Spoiler alert: the bank will break but it is worth it. We use them for guests at home also. |
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sns |
Jaywalker: "One more general thought on R values; for colder weather higher R values are great or essential. But i have also had many nights from mid-June through August where I was using my pad with an R value of 7 and wished I had something with an R value closer to 1. When it is warm out, sleeping on something warm does not help. Increased R value likely leads to increase price, weight, and bulk - so think ab out how much warmth you need under you. " This is an excellent point; although there are some who don't mind a winter pad under them in the height of summer...I am not one of them. Have tried it and was too hot to sleep for hours and was miserable. In summer I carry an Xlite or even an Uberlite. |
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butthead |
I am that person, does not bother me at all. I just open up the s-bag. The small 5 S lite is for packing and weight, but is limited to 20's and above for me. Good thing I'm short! butthead |
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Scout64 |
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bottomtothetap |
BONUS: Frees up some space in the tent as now a few items can be stored for the night under your cot, too. |
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Fearlessleader |
I really appreciate everyone sharing your thoughts. I have a feeling I’ll end up wondering why it took me so long to get the benefit of other people’s experience. |
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dogwoodgirl |
comfort plus pad |
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ockycamper |
At the end of the trip they paddled up to the takeout in Ely, pulled their canoes up, took out their packs, took 20 steps and dropped everything and took naps. My point is that their desire for the comforts of home caused them to hate the trip due to weight and bulk, and they never came back. It also caused our group to impose a hard/fast rule that everyone carries their own gear. . .no exceptions. The only shared carry from that point on was the canoes and food packs. Fast forward 5 years. . .all the guys were mid 50's to 70 and all in hammocks. And all with back issues. |
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pswith5 |
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plander |
bottomtothetap: "Unas10: "bottomtothetap: "Fearlessleader: "Interesting. I’d never seen these packable cots. I'm coming into this discussion a little late but I thought I would add a comment nonetheless. I played around for several years with various sleeping systems: - First 3-4 years was pad and synthetic mummy sleeping bag. - Next 5-7 years or so was the down sleeping bag and various cots. The last cot was the Therm-a-rest LuxuryLite UltraLite, it weighs about 2.5 lb. Addressed the rocks and roots but it is cold (May in BWCA/Q, anytime in the Sierras), so you need an insulted pad (and extra pound or more). - Last 8+ years I stopped using the cot. Switched to a decent ($150+) inflatable insulted pad thats at least 3 inches thick (current one is a Nemo Cosmo 3D, wide/long, with built in foot pump, weighs about 2.5 lbs). I use this with a nice 20 deg down bag. This set up is the best I have found, for me. Keeps me plenty warm in May in the BWCA. I don't feel roots or rocks. No back or sleep issues. This is what works for me. Most of my other gear is UL. |
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butthead |
They are not the only options but what I like. butthead |
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alpinebrule |
As part of my system I carry an inexpensive closed cell foam pad that goes under a basic REI air mattress, don't remember name right now. Adds insulation, cushion and protects the mattress. When traveling it goes around the inside exterior of a larger pack, adds shape when packing, cushion when portaging and doesn't take up any space to speak of. For extra 1/2 lb. works well for me. |
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plander |
Something like a Nemo Quasar (long wide), it weighs about 2 lbs and costs about $180. There are other models (Nemo) and brands (Thermarest, Big Agnes, Exped, etc). These are all gonna be in the $150 range, and often you can find these on sale. There are decent knockoff brands for camping gear on amazon...I've had good luck with Paria in particular. They make an insulated pad (Paria ReChargeXL) with similar specs to that indicated above at less than half the cost. |
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Jaywalker |
I don't hav a specific recommendation as my pad, an Exped Downmat 7 UL, is used all year around and you may not need the R value as high. I have been thinking of getting a much lower R value pad just for trips June - September. For what it's worth, I also have been doing what AlpineBrule does - adding a closed cell pad underneath. I started doing this in winter, but have extended in some other trips as well - mainly to help protect the pad and as backup. I popped my Exped on night 6 of a 20 day trip this summer and was glad to have the closed cell pad as backup for the next two nights until my field repair was set. I use a cut down version that goes to about my knee - and this doubles as a pad in the canoe for my dog to sleep on. If you are going to WCPP, I suspect you will find many tent pads are far less smooth and packed as in the BWCA. |
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kenpark23 |
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A1t2o |
2 pads together will be more bulky and might weigh more but it could get you by for the one trip. I think he preferred the air pad on bottom to flatten the base then a cheap foam pad on top. |
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boonie |
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Jaywalker |
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TomP |
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Finnboy |
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Blackdogyak |
I have used the Thermarest NeoAir X-something-or-other.....and it was by far the most comfortable inflatable I have used. Not the lightest. But I was happy. However, the NeoAir part of the design refers to the method of inflation. It's kinda like how you flap.open a garbage bag....wave it through the air to get air into it. It leaked and the pad deflated during the night. No bueno. Next I got a Klimit Static V2 and it's pretty good. (But non insulated) Check Sierra Trading Post. Before these, I used an inflatable flat Thermarest. Luxury for a 30 year old. Not sufficient for a 60 year old. I just purchased a high end hammock and hope that all this ground-hugger stuff is history for me. The hammock has so many advantages. |
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Blackdogyak |
I have used the Thermarest NeoAir X-something-or-other.....and it was by far the most comfortable inflatable I have used. Not the lightest. But I was happy. However, the NeoAir part of the design refers to the method of inflation. It's kinda like how you flap.open a garbage bag....wave it through the air to get air into it. It leaked and the pad deflated during the night. No bueno. Next I got a Klimit Static V2 and it's pretty good. (But non insulated) Check Sierra Trading Post. Before these, I used an inflatable flat Thermarest. Luxury for a 30 year old. Not sufficient for a 60 year old. I just purchased a high end hammock and hope that all this ground-hugger stuff is history for me. The hammock has so many advantages. |
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sns |
Blackdogyak: "I have used the Thermarest NeoAir X-something-or-other.....and it was by far the most comfortable inflatable I have used. Not the lightest. But I was happy. However, the NeoAir part of the design refers to the method of inflation. It's kinda like how you flap.open a garbage bag....wave it through the air to get air into it. It leaked and the pad deflated during the night. No bueno." Believe you are referring to the SV (SpeedValve) models within the Neoair line - those with the SV designation do have a really big opening at the top to partially inflate the way you describe...then you finish it off with the valve. And you are right - crappy, leak-prone design (which has been discontinued for this reason). 98+% of Neoairs (Xtherms, Xlites and Uberlites) do not have this...just a normal valve. |
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Blackdogyak |
sns: "Blackdogyak: "I have used the Thermarest NeoAir X-something-or-other.....and it was by far the most comfortable inflatable I have used. Not the lightest. But I was happy. However, the NeoAir part of the design refers to the method of inflation. It's kinda like how you flap.open a garbage bag....wave it through the air to get air into it. It leaked and the pad deflated during the night. No bueno." Ah yes.....you are correct sir! The NeoAir itself is great. The SV thing....not good. Boy, was that thing comfortable! I was so disappointed that I couldn't get that stupid rolltop to seal airtight. Makes you wonder.....how the heck does a pro manufacturer design something like that and never QC the final product? |
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sns |
Blackdogyak: "Makes you wonder.....how the heck does a pro manufacturer design something like that and never QC the final product?" Good question! I'm sure you were not the only unhappy customer, and I bet they got an earful about it. To be fair, they tend to have strong customer service and I will wager they sent out a ton of free replacement pads to folks. I'm with you - hammocks are the answer for sleeping comfort. |
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LarryS48 |
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ockycamper |
sns: "Blackdogyak: "Makes you wonder.....how the heck does a pro manufacturer design something like that and never QC the final product?" Those that haven't tried hammocks because they are side or stomach sleepers need to try a bridge hammock. We use Chrysalis Hammocks, Ridgerunners and a couple of other types. You can use an underquilt for insulation, or an insulated sleeping pad. I have a Chrysalis myself, like the one in the link. It literally goes up in less then a minute and has its own mosquito netting and rain fly built in. Storage areas front and back inside. I put my shoes and fleece jacket in the storage areas for those nightime trips. Chrysalis bridge hammock |
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lindylair |
I will say it is a very comfortable pad and I have had no trouble with it leaking over a several night camping trip using the roll up and seal technology that they built into it. Overall I am very satisfied with it for the price I paid for it and looking forward to using it a lot more. But remember i only paid 30 bucks for it. A steal at that price. Perhaps one of the reasons why I like it so much is that i have been using BA Q core 20 inch pads in my two BA bags for several years and as I get older (and larger) I find those are just too restrictive for me. |