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04/17/2023 09:02AM |
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10/12/2022 07:49PM |
jhb8426: "kona: "I believe it is amine blush. A thin coat of Flood penetrol has been suggested to remove the appearance. "
Amine blush only happens with epoxy. The old Bell web site had an article about the white blush in the bilge being due to moisture seeping in when the resin wears they and recommended wiping with acetone and a lite varnish coat. I contacted Charlie Wilson a number of years ago about this and he recommended wiping with acetone, and a lite coat of resin followed by a lite varnish. The bilge on my Magic was worn and had some white spots that needed fixing."
This was weird because it fully appeared after a day where some water evaporated after being in full sun for a chunk of a day. It really didn’t appear in areas of heavy wear. I always assumed it was the result of some sort of mineral deposit. Either way, it cleaned up quickly with the acetone. I’d probably not add a coat of varnish or resin at this point. The eventual buyer may think differently, though!
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08/25/2023 04:08PM |
mirth: "So are you going to go the Penetrol route? It's pretty thin, a quart will do many canoes."
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04/17/2023 10:27PM |
Banksiana: "Due to the relative thickness of resin and the difficulty of getting an even mix in containers that have angular shapes (a 90 between side and bottom of container rather than bowl) it is possible to measure perfectly and mix well an inadvertently have some resin with insufficient harder. I've done lots of work on canoes and on one occasion I had this white splotching occur on a job."
Ahh..so did you end up redoing or were you able to figure a fix?
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04/15/2023 10:57AM |
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10/10/2022 10:03PM |
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10/17/2022 12:07PM |
I eventually found several posts about using Flood Penetrol as a light wipe on layer for canoe interiors, sort of like how we use 303 for the exteriors. It restores the inside to near new appearance, if you like that "new kevlar" look - slightly shiny but not tacky or slick at all.
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10/17/2022 05:46PM |
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04/16/2023 02:50PM |
wxce1260: "the acetone shouldn't hurt the resin, I don't think."
The acetone can soften the resin Use sparingly.
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04/16/2023 07:44PM |
jhb8426: "wxce1260: "the acetone shouldn't hurt the resin, I don't think."
The acetone can soften the resin Use sparingly."
Thanks for the tip. Pretty sure when I refurbished, that I was exactly on target with the mix from Northwood. I applied it exactly as it was stated. I'm wondering if it may have something to do with too much 303 on it? I'll do the acetone and see how that works. Otherwise I may end up just buffing it and seeing how that works. It's really nothing but aesthetics, so it's not a big deal, I just like a pretty boat.
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10/08/2022 05:27AM |
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04/18/2023 08:35AM |
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04/18/2023 09:13AM |
Banksiana: "My fix was a redo on top of the affected area with a somewhat "hot" mix. I noticed the white area after paddling the repaired boat- The resin seemed solid and set but turned white after exposure to water."
Perfect! This sounds exactly like my problem. I appreciate everyone's input!
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04/19/2023 01:01PM |
mirth: "I know this was discussed plenty on the FB post. When I had my NorthStar I got tired of having to acetone wipe it whenever I took the boat out just to get the blush off. The checkerboard pattern of the blackgold layup is pretty enough that it deserves to be shown off a little, IMO.
I eventually found several posts about using Flood Penetrol as a light wipe on layer for canoe interiors, sort of like how we use 303 for the exteriors. It restores the inside to near new appearance, if you like that "new kevlar" look - slightly shiny but not tacky or slick at all."
Flood Penetrol will get rid of the white "Bell Blush". I am thinking of using it on the interior of any infused Kevlar boat since the fibers tend to become oxidized over time. The Penetrol brings back the new look.
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10/12/2022 11:47AM |
These kept popping up for a while. I think I've had 4-5 of them over the years!
Also, I never had the Northwind. I went in on the pair with another member.
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08/19/2023 08:33AM |
SR canoes have an outer layer of fibreglass. You don't want to sand straight kevlar as it will fuzz. So definitely check with your manufacturer.
I would not go the acetone route apart from the prepping stage of a total exterior refurbishment.
I just refinished my used outfitter SR Q17 with epoxy. What a difference! You'll definitely get better resale value for your effort.
The project may seem daunting but it really isn't after all is said and done. This was my very first encounter with this project. Apart from ensuring you have the proper proportions of resin and hardener, the next most important task in my opinion is to gently brush (tip) the resin after applying with your roller to smoothen it out and remove the air bubbles. It would be optimal to do this indoors in a well ventilated garage. It will give you more time with the epoxy and you'll avoid having bugs and airborne debris get caught in the surface. Even though you may not observe evidence of airborne debris and bugs, your tacky canoe definitely will!
And if your canoe only has superficial scratches, you can avoid epoxy and use a quality varnish instead.
I also removed the end caps, wet-sanded, heat-treated, and polished them with Armor All. This involved drilling out the rivets and sourcing black aluminum rivets from Amazon for the re-install. Also a straightforward job after some joyful online research and help from this forum.
Killarney Outfitters has a good description as well as a downloadable pdf of the epoxy process.
Before and after:
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08/19/2023 08:58AM |
Argo: "On Souris River's site they address this. A simple refinish of your canoe bottom will correct this. It involves sanding it out and applying either epoxy or varnish depending on the wear of your canoe.
SR canoes have an outer layer of fibreglass. You don't want to sand straight kevlar as it will fuzz. So definitely check with your manufacturer.
I would not go the acetone route.
I just refinished my used outfitter SR Q17 with epoxy. What a difference! You'll definitely get better resale value for your effort.
The project may seem daunting but it really isn't. Apart from ensuring you have the proper proportions of resin and hardener, the next most important task in my opinion is to gently brush the resin after applying with your roller to smoothen it out and remove the air bubbles. It would be optimal to do this indoors in a well ventilated garage. It will give you more time with the epoxy and you'll avoid having bugs and airborne debris get caught in the surface.
Killarney Outfitters' website has a good demo of this process.
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04/16/2023 09:52AM |
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08/19/2023 06:53AM |
mirth: "mirth: "."
Flood Penetrol will get rid of the white "Bell Blush". I am thinking of using it on the interior of any infused Kevlar boat since the fibers tend to become oxidized over time. The Penetrol brings back the new look."
Should the effected area be cleaned first with acetone before
applying flood Penetrol ? Looks like there is a water based and oil based product! Which product would be appropriate?
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10/12/2022 06:31PM |
kona: "I believe it is amine blush. A thin coat of Flood penetrol has been suggested to remove the appearance. "
Amine blush only happens with epoxy. The old Bell web site had an article about the white blush in the bilge being due to moisture seeping in when the resin wears they and recommended wiping with acetone and a lite varnish coat. I contacted Charlie Wilson a number of years ago about this and he recommended wiping with acetone, and a lite coat of resin followed by a lite varnish. The bilge on my Magic was worn and had some white spots that needed fixing.
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04/15/2023 08:50AM |
So if I understand correctly; to fix the problem should I just wipe the exterior with some acetone? Or do I need to apply some new vinylester after a wipe down? It is a chronic thing, and I would love to cure it. Any thoughts from those who understand the issue better than me?
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10/13/2022 10:58PM |
"Why did the interior of my canoe come back with a milky white spot after my last paddling trip?
Bell uses the most flexible resin possible. As a result, blushing (that milky white spot) sometimes results. This is caused by mineral deposits and water permeating into the pores of the canoe's outermost interior surface. The interior of the canoe is not gel-coated. It is resin and cloth only. Vinylester resin exhibits microscopic pores along its surface which can allow water to penetrate the surface layer. This does not happen in all areas because the porosity of the resin coat is not uniform; it occurs in some areas while not in others. Typically you'll notice it under kneeling pads or packs where water has collected and been trapped while paddling.
Blushing is not a defect or warranty issue. Blushing will go away after the canoe dries out. In many cases a canoe will blush once and then will not blush again after drying. Chronic blushing can also be remedied by applying a thin coat of polyurethane or varnish to the blushed area after the hull has thoroughly dried.
Blushing should not be confused with staining. Light-colored mineral stains also occur from the soils and minerals found in and around local bodies of water. These vary by region, state, and local geology. Staining is also not covered under the Bell Canoe Works warranty."
In my case the blushing did not go away. My previous post was done from memory, so the acetone part was not from the Bell info, only Charlie Wilson.
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10/07/2022 05:39PM |
Anyone have any experience getting this stuff off? It never bothered me, but now that I’m selling it, I’d like to clean it up.
Any advice?
Thanks!
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10/08/2022 07:36AM |
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04/15/2023 10:51AM |
Also, I may not be reading your post correctly, but these spots were exclusively on the boats interior. I didn’t have any similar splotches on the exterior of the boat.
Good luck!
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04/15/2023 11:08AM |
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04/15/2023 04:32PM |
amhacker22: "I can’t speak to the longevity of the acetone fix, as I sold the boat shortly after the post. It was a simple fix, though. It took about 20 minutes. I’d be inclined to this this every couple of years and let it play out a bit.
Also, I may not be reading your post correctly, but these spots were exclusively on the boats interior. I didn’t have any similar splotches on the exterior of the boat.
Good luck!"
Yeah, these are on the outside. I can actually rub them way with a fingernail. Seems like they are an oxidation like I have seen on royalex. The Kevlar is covered all summer with a canoe cover and stays inside all winter, so the sunshine shouldn't be an issue-- I've got some aceetone that I will try when it stops raining... the acetone shouldn't hurt the resin, I don't think.
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08/23/2023 11:11AM |
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10/08/2022 11:54AM |
The acetone seems to be working! I did a little chunk of it, and it came right off.
I’ll let it sit for a bit, but it looks like a winner.
Here’s a pic of the cleaned up spot:
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10/08/2022 04:19PM |
The acetone worked great. Here is an “after” photo.
Thanks again for the great advice.