Boundary Waters Quetico Forum :: Gear Forum :: Value of Kevlar skid plates
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justpaddlin |
Banksiana: "Kendis: "NikonF5user: "I'm curious how everyone feels about Kevlar skid plates and their impact on the paddling performance of the boat. Is the weight and paddling impact of the plates worth the abrasion benefits?" I'm with banksiana on this one. I had a Swift Osprey with factory skid plates. They added two pounds, looked like ugly warts on a gorgeous boat, had a small but noticable impact on efficiency, and made noise all the time (which made me hate them with a burning passion). But other skid plate designs have fewer negatives. If someone wants skid plates for peace of mind or so they can use their boat harder or for whatever reason I think that's fine. |
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RMinMN |
Blatz: "RMinMN: "If you paddle your canoe so fast that the difference the skid plates make on the performance is noticeable, you don't belong in Boundary Waters.What do you mean "You don't belong in the Boundary Waters"? Rather bold judgmental statement. I'm close to 60 trips and have always paddled faster canoes Jensen 18, Kevlar Advantage and I even took my J200 on one trip . Never used a skid plate, always wet foot, and travel light (single portage) There are people who enjoy traveling fast in the BW. Should they be excluded from the BW for that choice? Do I miss anything because I'm traveling 2 or 3 mph quicker than you? No I don't. The great thing about the BW is it's a very diverse group of people. Some people like to triple portage, bring fresh food with dry ice, and base camp. Some people like to single portage, eat dehydrated food, and travel 20-30 mile days. And everything in-between. " For a well installed set of skid plates to have a noticeable impact on the energy needed to paddle the canoe you would need to be traveling in excess of 30mph, probably much higher. If you are paddling that fast you don't belong in BWCA. |
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fraxinus |
I've never used it, basically it's a 1/32" thick adhesive backed PVC tape that adds a little nick and ding protection, probably not structurally as sound as a Kevlar skid plate, but not as ugly either. It can be applied and then smoothed out using a heat gun. Should be pretty durable, I would guess that a search would turn up a few discussions. |
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ISRO |
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AdamXChicago |
portagedog09: "Nikon, +1 on the grinding down. If everything else is what you want, go for it. I ground down some hideous skid plates before - ez pz ?? |
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NikonF5user |
Kendis: "I have kevlar skid plates installed on both of my canoes. They only add a few pounds. I have a hard time believing the impact to paddling efficiency matters at all. Why not make your canoe more durable?" I definitely get increasing durability, but a few pounds can be quite significant. I suppose it most depends on how you travel, but I find that when I am solo, the weight of everything matters. Two pounds can be the difference between a safe single carry or needing to double carry (it can also be the difference that makes for a strained back when alone in the wilderness). Not that I will not add a few pounds for comfort or convenience - but I would rather those pounds be in carrying a chair or a nice sleeping pad than unnecessarily on the canoe... |
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Kendis |
sns: " Get swole bro. That's how I trip and it suits me fine. |
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sns |
Banksiana: "Best to just repair when necessary with resin and thin strips of fiberglass cloth. Near invisible, easy to install and does not alter the lines or performance of your craft." +1 - this is the way |
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NikonF5user |
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MacCamper |
sns: "Banksiana: "Best to just repair when necessary with resin and thin strips of fiberglass cloth. Near invisible, easy to install and does not alter the lines or performance of your craft." +1 Years ago, not wanting to apply the thick kevlar guards, I taped off my keel wear areas and applied black truck bed liner (hated the color though). Several years later, after evaluating the area of wear and tear, I found that the abused sections of the canoe were not very large, significantly smaller than what a store bought guard would protect and much smaller than the "liner" patch I had put on. Last summer I applied a layer of resin/micro-bead thickened mix on the severe wear areas (masking tape for a clean application) and was very satisfied with the end result. In hind sight I wish I would have matched the canoe color by mixing in a bit of red acrylic paint into the resin. As mentioned by Banksiana and sns, it really doesn't need to be anything extravagant, just replace what has been worn off. On my cedar strip canoe, which needed a bit of repair, I used dynel which is a very thin yet super abrasive resistant fabric. I colored the material brown with a marker and tinted the resin brown with acrylic paint. Tough as nails! On my next canoe build I may sheath the whole boat bottom with the product. In fact, some canoe building companies have used it as a substitute for canvas on wood/canvas canoes. |
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egknuti |
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Blatz |
RMinMN: "If you paddle your canoe so fast that the difference the skid plates make on the performance is noticeable, you don't belong in Boundary Waters.What do you mean "You don't belong in the Boundary Waters"? Rather bold judgmental statement. I'm close to 60 trips and have always paddled faster canoes Jensen 18, Kevlar Advantage and I even took my J200 on one trip . Never used a skid plate, always wet foot, and travel light (single portage) There are people who enjoy traveling fast in the BW. Should they be excluded from the BW for that choice? Do I miss anything because I'm traveling 2 or 3 mph quicker than you? No I don't. The great thing about the BW is it's a very diverse group of people. Some people like to triple portage, bring fresh food with dry ice, and base camp. Some people like to single portage, eat dehydrated food, and travel 20-30 mile days. And everything in-between. |
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scotttimm |
MacCamper: "sns: "Banksiana: "Best to just repair when necessary with resin and thin strips of fiberglass cloth. Near invisible, easy to install and does not alter the lines or performance of your craft." I'll likely do a separate post in the near-future...but I put more than 500 miles on an 84 Sundowner last summer and really beat the crap out of it on the Pigeon River. The bow took the brunt of the damage, has a big gouge that I had to fill up with water weld on the fly. Down to some fuzzy cloth in some spots. Thoughts? |
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RedLakePaddler |
My other canoes I repair as needed which is seldom. Carl |
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MacCamper |
scotttimm: "MacCamper: "sns: "Banksiana: "Best to just repair when necessary with resin and thin strips of fiberglass cloth. Near invisible, easy to install and does not alter the lines or performance of your craft." Thickened resin will do the trick if you haven't gone through the fabric. Color it to match your boat. |
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TomT |
What they put on was minimal, basically covering the “keel” but I have peace of mind knowing that if I don’t see that boulder just under the water and smack that sucker hard, I should be ok. I’m very cautious at landings and wet foot it. I never ram it onto shore but what makes me nervous is out in water and those hidden shelf’s just underneath the surface. So my answer is get them on if you’re going to be in canoe country regularly. |
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MReid |
Blatz: would notice a difference if an oak leaf got wrapped around the bow, which happed a lot in the fall. Very annoying . You don't have to be racing. I notice that while tripping (mostly solo in sleek boats), and boink to get them off. Sometimes back up. But then I don't like noisy paddles either. |
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Banksiana |
TomT: "I installed them on a solo and a tandem years ago. Glad I did. Those canoes have been sold and I bought an ultra lite solo new in 2019. I had the manufacturer add skid plates. Manufacturer installed skid plates do not interfere with the lines of the boat- they are generally under the skin coat. Most manufacturers just put them on the bow and stern for the last 6" or so not the entire center line of the boat. It is very easy to simply add thin strips of fiber glass cloth and resin when your stems get worn. Half hour at the most and if done with care will not affect the performance of your craft. |
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golds009 |
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Scoobs |
RMinMN: "Blatz: "RMinMN: "If you paddle your canoe so fast that the difference the skid plates make on the performance is noticeable, you don't belong in Boundary Waters.What do you mean "You don't belong in the Boundary Waters"? Rather bold judgmental statement. I'm close to 60 trips and have always paddled faster canoes Jensen 18, Kevlar Advantage and I even took my J200 on one trip . Never used a skid plate, always wet foot, and travel light (single portage) There are people who enjoy traveling fast in the BW. Should they be excluded from the BW for that choice? Do I miss anything because I'm traveling 2 or 3 mph quicker than you? No I don't. The great thing about the BW is it's a very diverse group of people. Some people like to triple portage, bring fresh food with dry ice, and base camp. Some people like to single portage, eat dehydrated food, and travel 20-30 mile days. And everything in-between. " If anyone is paddling 30MPH in the BWCA, hit me up. I wanna go wakeboarding... |
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sns |
NikonF5user: "Kendis: "I have kevlar skid plates installed on both of my canoes. They only add a few pounds. I have a hard time believing the impact to paddling efficiency matters at all. Why not make your canoe more durable?" Agree. Some folks don't bat an eye at "a few pounds", and for the way they trip that suits them fine... I however alway single portage, solo or with groups, and to me/us weight very much does matter. |
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paddlinjoe |
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Banksiana |
Kendis: "NikonF5user: "I'm curious how everyone feels about Kevlar skid plates and their impact on the paddling performance of the boat. Is the weight and paddling impact of the plates worth the abrasion benefits?" I would say the weight is probably well less than a pound. Paddling efficiency is noticeable as well as the increased noise- This is the part of the hull that parts the water for you to move through any increase in resistance and turbulence is magnified. That being said the degree of degradation depends on the age and type of hull. Quite significant on a new MNII or Northstar Polaris- on a Souris River freighter not so much. |
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timatkn |
Kendis: "NikonF5user: "I'm curious how everyone feels about Kevlar skid plates and their impact on the paddling performance of the boat. Is the weight and paddling impact of the plates worth the abrasion benefits?" I guess my question back is why add unnecessary weight and drag? For what purpose? What is the cost benefit? How do you know how much drag it is if you always had skid plates? How do yo know they actually add any real durability? How can someone like me do 50+ trips with no skid plates and no issues and someone else think they are essential? I mean it's okay of course if someone puts them on, doesn't hurt me, but leaving them off doesn't seem to be bad either in real world experience...plus...they look like crap! T |
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Kendis |
NikonF5user: "I'm curious how everyone feels about Kevlar skid plates and their impact on the paddling performance of the boat. Is the weight and paddling impact of the plates worth the abrasion benefits?" I have kevlar skid plates installed on both of my canoes. They only add a few pounds. I have a hard time believing the impact to paddling efficiency matters at all. Why not make your canoe more durable? |
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RMinMN |
I have worn through a set of skid plates and replaced them. However, I may make more trips to the BWCA than most of you. My wife keeps better count on our trips and says we have made somewhere near 80 trips. |
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MDVancleave |
Either way–I wouldn't let skids or their absence stand in the way of an otherwise sweet deal! Like much of your canoe, this can be modified to your liking after you get some time on the water. |
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timatkn |
RMinMN: "If you paddle your canoe so fast that the difference the skid plates make on the performance is noticeable, you don't belong in Boundary Waters. For me it was more about necessity and aesthetics than performance…skid plates look like crap :) I had just bought a brand new beautiful canoe and the thought of starting off defiling it bothered me, everyone back then put skid plates on, but I listened to the dealer/manufacturer and didn’t put them on… 18 years later no regrets on that decision. I don’t have as many trips as you but that canoe has over 50 trips BWCAW/Quetico trips, hard trips, sometimes averaging 16 portages and 20-30 mile days so it got used…it’s maybe getting close to needing them (Sold it on here in 2020) but 20 years is a good run. To the OP, I would’ve still pulled the trigger on the canoe despite the skid plats if everything else was what ya wanted. It’s not a deal breaker. Too bad they pulled it… T |
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NikonF5user |
timatkn: "My opinion is they are unnecessary until you start to show damage. I had my last canoe 18 years with no skid plates. I am looking at a Merlin 2 that has Kevlar skid plates installed. I've always been against them on principle as I cannot help but feel they detract from the water flow over the hull. It's an otherwise awesome boat. |
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NikonF5user |
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YetiJedi |
I'm curious about what others will post on this topic. |
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portagedog09 |
I have a Merlin II and love it - great little boat. If it's priced right, don't let the skid plates stop you. I don't have them on mine, but I also don't take it up to canoe country (use a Magic for that..also no skid plates). You can always clearance them, grind them down to be less pronounced or remove them altogether. If they were applied when the boat was new, you should have great material underneath. Not necessary to have them but you probably won't notice much of difference in overall paddling performance with them. pd |
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timatkn |
I was going to add them when I bought mine new in 2020…but was advised against it by the vendor…glad I listened. Sold the canoe in 2020, I bet the new owner still hasn’t added them. T |
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Banksiana |
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timatkn |
ISRO: "I ordered built in plates with mine." I think most Kevlar canoes now a days have internal skid plates. I think that is what you are talking about? I know you can custom order them, but almost every off the shelf canoe I’ve seen had them. I am pretty sure Souris River this has been standard since the 90’s. Last year, all of the Bell/Northstar canoes I looked at in Hoigards, Midwest Mountaineering, and Piragis all had internal skid plates. It’s a good option if you want more durability without the looks of adding an external skid plate. You can sometimes tell by looking at the canoe if they have internal but many times you can’t. Many people still put external skid plates over the internal…Maybe the extra layers make them feel better? Or some probably don’t even know they are already on the canoe I suspect. T |
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timatkn |
RMinMN: "Blatz: "RMinMN: "If you paddle your canoe so fast that the difference the skid plates make on the performance is noticeable, you don't belong in Boundary Waters.What do you mean "You don't belong in the Boundary Waters"? Rather bold judgmental statement. I'm close to 60 trips and have always paddled faster canoes Jensen 18, Kevlar Advantage and I even took my J200 on one trip . Never used a skid plate, always wet foot, and travel light (single portage) There are people who enjoy traveling fast in the BW. Should they be excluded from the BW for that choice? Do I miss anything because I'm traveling 2 or 3 mph quicker than you? No I don't. The great thing about the BW is it's a very diverse group of people. Some people like to triple portage, bring fresh food with dry ice, and base camp. Some people like to single portage, eat dehydrated food, and travel 20-30 mile days. And everything in-between. " Whoa…why so defensive? Who cares? We get it…you REALY LIKE skid plates :) Others with just as much experience as you don’t like them or find them helpful. You are entitled to your opinion…so are the rest of us…but maybe stop inferring people that disagree with you don’t belong in the BWCA? One thing I’ve learned in my 52 years is that there is more than one way to do something and the best way depends on the person… T |
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TomT |
Banksiana: "TomT: "I installed them on a solo and a tandem years ago. Glad I did. Those canoes have been sold and I bought an ultra lite solo new in 2019. I had the manufacturer add skid plates. I agree. Swift did a great job with it. It’s worth the peace of mind to have them on both ends. |
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Blatz |
Scoobs: "That would be something. Funny, back in my racing days I and other racers would notice a difference if an oak leaf got wrapped around the bow, which happed a lot in the fall. Very annoying .RMinMN: "Blatz: "RMinMN: "If you paddle your canoe so fast that the difference the skid plates make on the performance is noticeable, you don't belong in Boundary Waters.What do you mean "You don't belong in the Boundary Waters"? Rather bold judgmental statement. I'm close to 60 trips and have always paddled faster canoes Jensen 18, Kevlar Advantage and I even took my J200 on one trip . Never used a skid plate, always wet foot, and travel light (single portage) There are people who enjoy traveling fast in the BW. Should they be excluded from the BW for that choice? Do I miss anything because I'm traveling 2 or 3 mph quicker than you? No I don't. The great thing about the BW is it's a very diverse group of people. Some people like to triple portage, bring fresh food with dry ice, and base camp. Some people like to single portage, eat dehydrated food, and travel 20-30 mile days. And everything in-between. " |