Boundary Waters Quetico Forum :: Gear Forum :: Permethrin Harmful to BWCA wildlife?
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A1t2o |
bwcadan: "All my life, I have washed my fruit and veggies. Does dry spray never come off the food or the clothes we use. You do not want to be wearing clothes treated with permethrin without letting them dry first. You want to wear gloves and keep the permethrin off your skin when in liquid form. Once it dries, and all the extra chemicals that kept it liquid evaporate, it will bond to your clothes and is safe for people. It is the liquid permethrin mix that is toxic, not the dry bonded active ingredient. |
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ockycamper |
Lawnchair107: "cyclones30: "We've been extremely happy with having clothes treated and dry ahead of a trip vs not. Ticks especially but somewhat mosquitoes and flies too " We soak our outerwear and socks in premethrin and let it dry. We don't use Deet. We have found that picardin works far better and doesn't feel oily |
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bwcadan |
What about spraying just before you get into the canoe? This would seem to be likely harmful to any thing contraction it including people. |
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ockycamper |
bwcadan: "All my life, I have washed my fruit and veggies. Does dry spray never come off the food or the clothes we use. I treat my outer clothing only once every year, letting it fully dry. Then put those clothes in a sealed trash bag. Once dry, there is nothing harmful to animals or humans. |
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Lawnchair107 |
Yeah I bring both. & by bring I mean treat before. Ticks are a whole different animal in which I don’t take lightly. But I see your point. I personally will always treat for ticks as long as it will be safe to do so. |
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butthead |
bobbernumber3: "mschi772: "Once it is dry, it is quite safe and any that does happen to leave fabric and enter water afterwards will bind with sediment and fall out of aquatic environments to be rendered inert in the sediment. Once dry it is only a threat to bees if they're landing on treated fabrics." You can search for MSDS on permethrin and find a lot of info. It has been the major food industry, agricultural insecticide since the early 1970's. Worked in the food industry for 44 years and handled permethrin weekly (the third eye I have is due to management not a chemical mutation). butthead |
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keth0601 |
schweady: "Seems that you could just vow to never swim while wearing permethrin treated clothing (which makes no sense to me in the first place, but I suppose it could happen). People may not typically swim with it, but I would bet a lot of people are wet footing with their treated pants, one of those things where maybe it's not a big deal if only a few people do it infrequently, but I wouldn't be surprised if there's a cumulative effect as more and more people do it? What do you do to keep mosquitos off? That's my biggest gripe about permethrin, sure they might die later, but at least in the places I go it doesn't stop them from biting you first... Same with the biting flies, I've literally had dozens of them crawling around on a pair of pants I had just treated rather liberally the week before and it doesn't seem to bother them... |
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cyclones30 |
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Lawnchair107 |
cyclones30: "We've been extremely happy with having clothes treated and dry ahead of a trip vs not. Ticks especially but somewhat mosquitoes and flies too " Me too. Anything that says “treats ticks” I’m using. |
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schweady |
keth0601: "What do you do to keep mosquitos off?" AVON Skin-So-Soft Bug Guard Plus Picaridin -- Really. It's the best. Although the price has skyrocketed lately (and 3rd party sellers seem to not know how to spell anymore...) |
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keth0601 |
schweady: "keth0601: "What do you do to keep mosquitos off?" The picaridin keeps ticks off as well doesn't it? I guess I'd rather just use one product and the deet/ picaridin works for the skeeters and the ticks so why bother with the permethrin? |
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Lailoken |
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cyclones30 |
I don't wear treated clothes in the water, I swim in underwear or shorts or whatever. Not my treated pants and long sleeve shirt, seems kinda odd to do so. |
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schweady |
keth0601: "schweady: "keth0601: "What do you do to keep mosquitos off?" The permethrin protection is for the areas covered with clothing. The picardin protection is for the areas of exposed skin. It works. Not sure why I would be required to chose only one. |
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schweady |
Sorry, but I have first-hand control group trial experience that proves its effectiveness. It's one of the highest benefit vs risk ratios in the wilderness, except maybe that of staying alive vs suffocation from a too-tight PFD. And no, I don't bother with DEET any more. |
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keth0601 |
I won't use it in the bwca anymore after that. I don't find it particularly helpful anyways. At least no more so than deet and you still have to use deet anyways since the permethrin won't stop the biting flies or mosquitos before they get to you. |
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Hunter123 |
“Permethrin has a low level of toxicity to birds and mammals, but it is highly toxic to insects, bees and fish. For this reason, it is important that residual material does not contaminate blooming crops, waterways or other aquatic areas.” https://healthcenter.indiana.edu/health-answers/travel/insect-precautions.html |
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cyclones30 |
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gotwins |
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mschi772 |
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bobbernumber3 |
mschi772: "Once it is dry, it is quite safe and any that does happen to leave fabric and enter water afterwards will bind with sediment and fall out of aquatic environments to be rendered inert in the sediment. Once dry it is only a threat to bees if they're landing on treated fabrics." Source on this?? |
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plander |
Permethrin Pub Chem link Permethrin is not a repellent. Rather, it kills (most any bug) on contact. Thus, it’s effective for ticks. It’s not going to repel the mosquitos or little flies like Deet or picaridin. I’d say don’t wash your permethrin soaked clothes in the lake or river water and you will be ok. A common way it’s used is to spray a dilute solution on clothing and let it dry. Some will spray it on then put in the dryer or iron it in so it stays on - even after going through the washing machine. Personally I’ve not found it effective and gave up using it long ago. I use deet spray when necessary. |
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SouthernExposure |
U.S. Army on Permethrin |
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mirth |
Ticks suck! |
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TrailZen |
schweady: "The picaridin keeps ticks off as well doesn't it? I guess I'd rather just use one product and the deet/ picaridin works for the skeeters and the ticks so why bother with the permethrin?" The permethrin protection is for the areas covered with clothing. The picardin protection is for the areas of exposed skin. It works. Not sure why I would be required to chose only one. " Exactly! TZ |
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gotwins |
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butthead |
What about dogs in the water wearing flea and tic collars? Look up the ingredients and you will likely find Deltamethrin or Flumethrin chemicals in the pyrethroid group right along with permethrin. butthead |