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Frenchy19
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Kermit: "I went down for a visit and honestly was nothing but impressed. Walking through the old Bell factory in La Crosse was incredible. Apparently they’d been using the building as storage, but all the stuff to build canoes was just shoved to the sides. Andrew cleared the whole place our, took a deep dive into modern laminate construction processes, and has been working to get the place back up and running. It was surreal to see molds of models long since out of production. The Merlin was there. The Yellowstone solo was there. The Bucktail, Northstar, Rob Roy, and Rockstar, all there. Andrew has been working to retool these molds for a resin infusion process, similar to what Swift and Grey Duck are doing. These will be produced under the Red Feather brand. It’s safe to say anyone associated with the Bell\ORC production days is long gone. Very interested to see what they do moving forward and best of luck to them.
"
Great post, Kermit; thanks for the info/update.
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Kermit
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I went down for a visit and honestly was nothing but impressed. Walking through the old Bell factory in La Crosse was incredible. Apparently they’d been using the building as storage, but all the stuff to build canoes was just shoved to the sides. Andrew cleared the whole place out, took a deep dive into modern laminate construction processes, and has been working to get the place back up and running. It was surreal to see molds of models long since out of production. The Merlin was there. The Yellowstone solo was there. The Bucktail, Northstar, Rob Roy, and Rockstar, all there. Andrew has been working to retool these molds for a resin infusion process, similar to what Swift and Grey Duck are doing. These will be produced under the Red Feather brand. It’s safe to say anyone associated with the Bell\ORC production days is long gone. Very interested to see what they do moving forward and best of luck to them.
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Sparkeh
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justpaddlin: "I hope they become successful too. It looks like they have the integrity to sell blems as blems and as someone that had to return a $4000 Northstar blem that was sold as first quality I'd go out of my way to look at Redfeather canoes. More recently I made the mistake of buying some Northstar thwarts and same story; I had to spend time and money to return defective product.
"
I recently returned brand new seat droppers for my magic to northstar. I was surprised to receive low quality ones with stain drips all over them. I sent them an email with photos and they sent me new ones that are fair quality without having to return the blemished ones.
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keth0601
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Happy to see another canoe manufacturer on the scene. Having more options on the market can only be a good thing in my eyes.
If whomever is running things over there is reading this post, I would just like to say that if you can (truly) come up with a royalex replacement that fits into the same cost and performance bracket and doesn't end up being crazy heavy like all of the esquif layups apparently are, you'd have a new customer right here.
My OT Penobscot 16 isn't getting any younger and all of the options out there right now are either too heavy (esquif t-formex, 3-layer poly boats, etc) or too expensive (kevlar expedition layups, nova craft tuff stuff expedition, etc) for a hard use boat.
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Speckled
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I've talked to Andrew. I hope they do well and I think they will. Right now, they're willing to make you a boat with any of the designs/molds they have and the price will be well under what a similiar model would cost from other manufacturers. In fact the price was under what you could buy a one or two year used rental from an outfitter. It's a great deal! The boats look great and my read is they're just making sure there craft is absolutely down pat prior to going full commercially available.
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Kermit
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Saw this on Redfeather's site. Very interesting indeed.
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timatkn
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Makes sense. They bought the designs and own them. They tried to sell it off and due to the poor economy were unable. Now canoe sales are doing well, why not try to see how they can do on the market. I am sure they still have the molds…it wouldn’t take much to get back in to the game.
T
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billconner
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A report (rumor?) that new ORC executives are outdoorsman. Makes sense.
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Kermit
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NikonF5user: "Any chatter about which models they'd produce? Seems foolish to go head to head with Northstar on identical designs..."
From the blems they're selling they list a Bucktail, Magic, Rockstar, and Northwind 17. All Yost designs I believe.
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Ragged
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RFAV: " Some in this thread seem to have a serious bone to pick. "
I mean........ ORC did in fact sell a bunch of very poorly made boats and mismanaged the whole operation so badly that the beloved brand and its associated designs disappeared from the (new) marketplace for a very long time.
I feel in this situation addressing those missteps from before would be a smarter move than trying to fault anyone with a decent memory, maybe explain what changes were made to ensure no repeats of past poor performances. There is a reason why most people looking at an older Bell will check/ask if its from the ORC days, no point in pretending it didn't happen. Its not malicious to remember.
I think just about every canoeist will wish the very best for this new endeavor, but a name change does not mean there isn't some trust that must be earned back, like you said small industry.
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Frenchy19
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Mocha: "Is this the same company that makes snowshoes?"
Yes
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billconner
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Frenchy19: "Would not purchase any Bell boat built by ORC given the quality control issues they had after purchasing the company from Ted-especially when you can purchase a Northstar with Ted back in the game.
Here is an interesting old thread regarding ORC from 2012. "
11 years and all new people, things change. And they apparently won't have Bell name. Should be worth a look if price is right.
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kona
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I wondered if they might bring the bell royalex molds back into production w t formex.
Yesterday I was paddling my royalex Yellowstone solo on an area river that is usually a little bony. I love that boat. I can imagine a royalex rockstar being pretty popular for the starting and bigger paddlers out there.
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kona
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Tformex is expensive too, so I’m not sure it makes as much sense as royalex did back when uniroyal was cranking it out cheap. As a rocky river runner at heart, royalex does hold a spot in my shed.
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Mocha
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Is this the same company that makes snowshoes?
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billconner
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And they are resurrecting the Bell line? Should be good Canoecopia gossip fodder.
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NikonF5user
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Any chatter about which models they'd produce? Seems foolish to go head to head with Northstar on identical designs...
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justpaddlin
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RFAV: "Ragged: "RFAV: " Some in this thread seem to have a serious bone to pick. "
I think just about every canoeist will wish the very best for this new endeavor, but a name change does not mean there isn't some trust that must be earned back, like you said small industry. "
I appreciate the feedback Ragged. I was not involved with Bell, I am involved with Redfeather and I took it a little too personally. I have paddled a Redfeather on several rivers in the La Crosse area, the Namekogen and Quetico with no issues. My offer stands, if you find yourself in the La Crosse area stop by and see what we are up to. "
Are test paddles possible? I'd like to try a Rockstar.
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Kermit
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kona: "I wondered if they might bring the bell royalex molds back into production w t formex. "
I do know they have the Bell Royalex molds, as I saw them while I was there. But I'm under the impression the bulk of their energy right now is going into composite canoes, specifically with the resin infusion process. Andrew did mention the idea of getting the Royalex molds back into production, but also something about how sourcing TFormex has been a challenge.
I encouraged Andrew to post some YouTube videos or hold an open house in the future. He's got some really good ideas and is working to implement them in the boats. They're certainly still perfecting the process, but I wouldn't at all be surprised if they have a booth full of boats at Canoecopia next year.
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jhb8426
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That's a very nice looking boat. Looks like they have the technique down pretty well.
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unshavenman
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Ragged: "RFAV: " Some in this thread seem to have a serious bone to pick. "
I mean........ ORC did in fact sell a bunch of very poorly made boats and mismanaged the whole operation so badly that the beloved brand and its associated designs disappeared from the (new) marketplace for a very long time.
I feel in this situation addressing those missteps from before would be a smarter move than trying to fault anyone with a decent memory, maybe explain what changes were made to ensure no repeats of past poor performances. There is a reason why most people looking at an older Bell will check/ask if its from the ORC days, no point in pretending it didn't happen. Its not malicious to remember.
I think just about every canoeist will wish the very best for this new endeavor, but a name change does not mean there isn't some trust that must be earned back, like you said small industry. "
Well spoken Ragged. There's a reason why pre-ORC Bell canoes are coveted.
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billconner
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A fellow who states he is in charge of the shop posts on another board and seems sincere. I hope he does well and gets a chance to prove it.
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Frenchy19
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Ragged: "RFAV: " Some in this thread seem to have a serious bone to pick. "
I mean........ ORC did in fact sell a bunch of very poorly made boats and mismanaged the whole operation so badly that the beloved brand and its associated designs disappeared from the (new) marketplace for a very long time.
I feel in this situation addressing those missteps from before would be a smarter move than trying to fault anyone with a decent memory, maybe explain what changes were made to ensure no repeats of past poor performances. There is a reason why most people looking at an older Bell will check/ask if its from the ORC days, no point in pretending it didn't happen. Its not malicious to remember.
I think just about every canoeist will wish the very best for this new endeavor, but a name change does not mean there isn't some trust that must be earned back, like you said small industry. "
Could not have said it better.
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fadersup
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RFAV: "billconner: "Frenchy19: "Would not purchase any Bell boat built by ORC given the quality control issues they had after purchasing the company from Ted-especially when you can purchase a Northstar with Ted back in the game.
Here is an interesting old thread regarding ORC from 2012. "
11 years and all new people, things change. And they apparently won't have Bell name. Should be worth a look if price is right."
Hey Bill, 11 years and all new people is correct. Things do change and we have been working very hard over the last year to perfect our boat building process. Some in this thread seem to have a serious bone to pick. I invite anyone here to reach out to me and come to our shop in La Crosse. Come see for yourself what we are doing.
The "blems" listed on facebook are hardly blems, as we have incredibly high standards and a desire to do things right. While it was an incognito attempt to sell some of our first boats, the canoe industry is small and people connect the dots.
 "
Nice looking boat!
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Ragged
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Frenchy19: "Would not purchase any Bell boat built by ORC given the quality control issues they had after purchasing the company from Ted-especially when you can purchase a Northstar with Ted back in the game.
"
I agree, the Juice ain't worth the squeeze, just get a NS
billconner: "11 years and all new people, things change. And they apparently won't have Bell name. Should be worth a look if price is right."
I hear ya, but the fact that the first ones we are seeing are more blems seems to indicate things might not have changed much. The exorbitant amount of ORC blems (and the associated losses) are why the Bell name disappeared, it really felt like they made more bad boats than good.
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Ragged
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billconner: "A fellow who states he is in charge of the shop posts on another board and seems sincere. I hope he does well and gets a chance to prove it."
I don’t think their first attempt wasn’t sincere, I think it just wasn’t a good fit. ORC is a unique company in that it prides itself in giving disabled people (of all types) opportunities they may not get elsewhere. I think it’s a noble and commendable mission but with the high degree of skill needed and significant costs associated with materials it proved to be a poor fit for that workforce. I definitely wish them the best and hope they learned and adjusted their game plan for this next endeavor, but I’d definitely be giving any of their boats the eagle eye before buying….. fool me once
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justpaddlin
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I hope they become successful too. It looks like they have the integrity to sell blems as blems and as someone that had to return a $4000 Northstar blem that was sold as first quality I'd go out of my way to look at Redfeather canoes. More recently I made the mistake of buying some Northstar thwarts and same story; I had to spend time and money to return defective product.
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billconner
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I'm not interested in another canoe at the moment, but if a Northstar Magic is $3500 and an ORC with a blem is $2000, I'm going to look at it.
I hope they become successful.
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Frenchy19
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Maybe a complete aside in all this, but I am also not interested in product from any company that only offers their goods on Facebook Marketplace. If you go to the Redfeather website, there is a link for canoes, but when you click on it, there is a "coming soon!" message.
Leads me to think they trying to clean up their debitage from previous ill fated attempts at manufacturing canoes on FB Marketplace-with nothing new to offer at this time.
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Frenchy19
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Would not purchase any Bell boat built by ORC given the quality control issues they had after purchasing the company from Ted-especially when you can purchase a Northstar with Ted back in the game.
Here is an interesting old thread regarding ORC from 2012.
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RFAV
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Ragged: "RFAV: " Some in this thread seem to have a serious bone to pick. "
I think just about every canoeist will wish the very best for this new endeavor, but a name change does not mean there isn't some trust that must be earned back, like you said small industry. "
I appreciate the feedback Ragged. I was not involved with Bell, I am involved with Redfeather and I took it a little too personally. I have paddled a Redfeather on several rivers in the La Crosse area, the Namekogen and Quetico with no issues. My offer stands, if you find yourself in the La Crosse area stop by and see what we are up to.
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Naught
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Ahhh, I saw the "composite factory seconds" boats listed on lacrosse marketplace or Craigslist and wondered who was making them. Interesting.
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RFAV
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billconner: "Frenchy19: "Would not purchase any Bell boat built by ORC given the quality control issues they had after purchasing the company from Ted-especially when you can purchase a Northstar with Ted back in the game.
Here is an interesting old thread regarding ORC from 2012. "
11 years and all new people, things change. And they apparently won't have Bell name. Should be worth a look if price is right."
Hey Bill, 11 years and all new people is correct. Things do change and we have been working very hard over the last year to perfect our boat building process. Some in this thread seem to have a serious bone to pick. I invite anyone here to reach out to me and come to our shop in La Crosse. Come see for yourself what we are doing.
The "blems" listed on facebook are hardly blems, as we have incredibly high standards and a desire to do things right. While it was an incognito attempt to sell some of our first boats, the canoe industry is small and people connect the dots.
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RFAV
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Hey Mirth you were close! 
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Kermit
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Here's some early blems they're selling on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/898471291358304/
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mirth
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Hey Andrew, thanks for stopping by! Which mold is the photo? Looks like maybe a NorthStar tandem? Are you going to be producing only the Yost models acquired from Bell, or do you have plans for new models in the future?
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NikonF5user
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Not sure if there has been much chatter about Redfeather Canoes since this thread was started, but I wanted to add to it as I have been on two trips now with my Redfeather Merlin, and absolutely LOVE it. The carbon / innegra layup is beautiful and stiff, the boat seems quite solidly built, and is a dream to paddle. I cannot get over how easily I paced tandems on several occasions in Algonquin. And you just cannot beat the communication with the people building the boat!
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