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07/02/2024 12:24PM |
OneMatch: "Can't beat the Northstar Northwind."
Our crew has all four makes - Souris River, Northstar Northwind, Mad River and Wenonah. Long stories how we ended up with all four makes (some great deals on used canoes) but the one that is everyone's favorite to be in for fishing or camping trips is the Northstar Northwind.
Very stable and handles like a charm. My wife can't be in the other three after starting trips out in the Northstar. That says it all right there!
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07/02/2024 10:17PM |
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07/02/2024 10:09PM |
Anyone else who has thoughts and experience to share I am still interested.
Thanks again.
-CV
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06/29/2024 08:42PM |
I could never flip it even when I tried, so my family is used to an ultra-stable canoe and we are now looking for a new family canoe. This time though I am hoping for a Kevlar canoe this time. Is there any ultra-stable Kevlar canoes out there? If so, what would you recommend.
Thanks in advance,
CanoeViking
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06/30/2024 08:52AM |
Kendis: "Wenonah Champlain for tandem, or their MN III for a three man.
There are many other options and even more opinions!"
I forgot to mention the MN IV if you need four seats.
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06/30/2024 12:03PM |
AdamXChicago: "billconner: "The Sourish River Quetico 17 or 18 would seem to fit this well. "
+1"
+3
I would avoid any iteration of the Wenonah MN unless your bow paddler weighs about 13 pounds and has no legs.
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06/30/2024 10:21AM |
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06/30/2024 11:01AM |
timatkn: "CanoeViking: "Is initial stability how stable it is when you’re getting in and secondary stability when you’re paddling?"
Quick video explanation "
Thank you this was very helpful. I have been canoeing rivers and lakes for the last 25+ years and it goes to show you can always learn something new.
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06/30/2024 04:52AM |
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06/30/2024 07:39AM |
There are many other options and even more opinions!
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06/30/2024 08:02AM |
The Champlain would be a good boat for you right now, but the children will have to sit on packs. Still, there would be plenty of room for kids and gear. It has excellent initial stability, and it has good secondary stability. The advantages of this canoe over the MN III is that it is 2 feet shorter at 18' and 9 pounds lighter at 46 lb (ultralight layup).
The Minnesota III has a 3rd seat that is wider than either the bow or stern seats, but you might want to swap it out for something even wider so two young children can sit together easily. At 54 lbs in ultralight layup, this is still very easy to portage, although the 20' length requires some careful maneuvering on twisty portages. Still, I've been able to manage it and I'm not an especially athletic guy. The area between the yoke and the bow seat swallows a lot of gear.
Wenonah's Seneca sits midway between the Champlain and the MNIII. It looks like it would be a good choice, too, but I have not had a chance to paddle one on a trip.
I've also rented a Northstar Northwind 18. The length is 18'9" is longer than the Champlain but its width is narrower. Its initial/secondary stability profile would be different than the Champlain's but I thought it was OK. You could put a 3rd seat in it (a typical option) for the children. It has a massive cargo capacity.
Northstar's B19 might be another possibility. The middle seat is very wide, the length is 19'6", and the cargo capacity is massive.
My final suggestion would be a Souris River Quetico 18.5. Three seats and their Quetico canoes are designed to have good initial stability. I've never paddled a 18.5, but their 17 seemed stable to me.
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06/30/2024 11:39AM |
AdamXChicago: "billconner: "The Sourish River Quetico 17 or 18 would seem to fit this well. "
+1"
+2
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06/30/2024 10:54PM |
CanoeViking: "timatkn: "Unless you just get a deal on a canoe, I’d try to paddle a few and compare.
The more stable canoes based on my personal experience are
1. Any of the Souris River Quetico line of canoes
2. Wenonah Boundary Waters canoe
The Champlain looks stable, just haven’t used it.
I have the Northwind 17, it’s stable but it doesn’t feel as stable as the ones above. The MN II/III even more so. From your description it would take time to get used to those canoes.
T"
These all seem like great options. I have paddled the MN III and if things are loaded low it felt great but was not near as stable as my Smokercraft. Is my standard too high?
Also, where is a good place to try some of these out? I live near Rochester, MN."
Is my standard too high? Hey ya like what ya like, don’t let anyone tell ya different.
I am sorry I made a suggestion about try before buying and I know of no options in your area. Maybe Rutabaga in Madison. No Souris River but most of the others. Otherwise maybe rent a canoe for a trip and see how ya feel after a week?
T
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07/01/2024 05:18AM |
CanoeViking: "... and it goes to show you can always learn something new."
Yes. It's time to ditch the 1940's technology and learn to paddle Kevlar. It's similar to riding a bike and requires balance and a smooth paddling technique. There is a learning curve, but you'll get used to it shortly. You'll be glad you did.
Or just replace your old damaged canoe with another "lead-sled".
ps. Swamp Lake is an interesting favorite you have listed... ?
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07/01/2024 09:16AM |
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07/01/2024 02:20PM |
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07/01/2024 09:32AM |
Souris River Quetico 17 or 18.5.
North Star B series 17 or 19. ( wider than the Northwinds)
Wenonah Boundary Waters, Champlain, and Seneca. (Wider than the MN series).
What length would depend on how many seats you want.
We had a Souris River Q 18.5 for 10 years starting when the girls were 4 and 2 and we called it the family truckster. That thing was rock solid stable. 2 adults and 2 kids and a dog and not once was I worried about tipping. They would crawl up to mom and back and they both fit on the middle seat together until they were 12 and 10. We would take out the middle seat when we used it tandem.
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07/01/2024 12:25PM |
PabloKabo: "I'd recommend a Souris River Quetico canoe... Nice folks too."
Nice folks, but whacky...
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07/01/2024 10:50AM |
ducks: "Based on your high standards of the Smokerctaft comment. LOL. I would look at
Souris River Quetico 17 or 18.5.
North Star B series 17 or 19. ( wider than the Northwinds)
Wenonah Boundary Waters, Champlain, and Seneca. (Wider than the MN series).
What length would depend on how many seats you want.
We had a Souris River Q 18.5 for 10 years starting when the girls were 4 and 2 and we called it the family truckster. That thing was rock solid stable. 2 adults and 2 kids and a dog and not once was I worried about tipping. They would crawl up to mom and back and they both fit on the middle seat together until they were 12 and 10. We would take out the middle seat when we used it tandem.
"
Yes, when I referred to high standards, I was ONLY talking about the stability. I have been canoeing for over 25 years and And I’m pretty flexible with most canoes and their stability, mama bear on the other hand, is much less inclined to take the cubs and her on a trip we me in a canoe that does not feel exceedingly stable.
From all of the feedback and research, I’m really leaning towards a SQ 18.5. But I’m still very much open to ears the Northwind has my attention as well
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07/14/2024 07:58PM |
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07/01/2024 12:37PM |
CanoeViking: "ducks: "Based on your high standards of the Smokerctaft comment. LOL. I would look at
Souris River Quetico 17 or 18.5.
North Star B series 17 or 19. ( wider than the Northwinds)
Wenonah Boundary Waters, Champlain, and Seneca. (Wider than the MN series).
What length would depend on how many seats you want.
We had a Souris River Q 18.5 for 10 years starting when the girls were 4 and 2 and we called it the family truckster. That thing was rock solid stable. 2 adults and 2 kids and a dog and not once was I worried about tipping. They would crawl up to mom and back and they both fit on the middle seat together until they were 12 and 10. We would take out the middle seat when we used it tandem.
"
Yes, when I referred to high standards, I was ONLY talking about the stability. I have been canoeing for over 25 years and And I’m pretty flexible with most canoes and their stability, mama bear on the other hand, is much less inclined to take the cubs and her on a trip we me in a canoe that does not feel exceedingly stable.
From all of the feedback and research, I’m really leaning towards a SQ 18.5. But I’m still very much open to ears the Northwind has my attention as well "
I hear ya. My suggestions above were based solely on your stability comment comparing it to your barge LOL.
I personally like paddling a Northwind better but my wife prefers the SR. Northwind is Plenty stable and much better glide IMO. My wife said that the SR definitely felt more stable to her in the bow, but not by a lot for me in the stern. Honestly, money was the final factor when we purchased the SR because at the time Bell wasn’t in production and Ted hadn’t started up Northstar yet, so supply and demand caused used Northwind 18’s to cost $600 to $800 more than the used SR we bought.
Now most of my trips are tandem with one of my kids or solo with our 80 lb lab so I downsized to a SR Q 16. My preferred small tandem is the Northstar Polaris, but it had only been out for a year when I got the used SR 16 so any Polaris I could find was way more expensive.
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07/01/2024 08:02PM |
Any questions I should ask when buying a used Kevlar SQ canoe?
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07/01/2024 06:10PM |
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07/13/2024 09:34PM |
bobbernumber3: "CanoeViking: "... and it goes to show you can always learn something new."
Yes. It's time to ditch the 1940's technology and learn to paddle Kevlar. It's similar to riding a bike and requires balance and a smooth paddling technique. There is a learning curve, but you'll get used to it shortly. You'll be glad you did.
Or just replace your old damaged canoe with another "lead-sled".
ps. Swamp Lake is an interesting favorite you have listed... ?"
Yes, it is a modest lake, but it is loaded with smallmouth bass of good size. Also don’t know how many of them, but there’s one gargantuan Pike in that lake as well.
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07/10/2024 01:15PM |
Dooger: "papalambeau: "OneMatch: "Can't beat the Northstar Northwind."
Our crew has all four makes - Souris River, Northstar Northwind, Mad River and Wenonah. Long stories how we ended up with all four makes (some great deals on used canoes) but the one that is everyone's favorite to be in for fishing or camping trips is the Northstar Northwind. Very stable and handles like a charm.
My wife can't be in the other three after starting trips in the Northstar. That says it all right there!"
What size NW?
17'
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06/30/2024 05:18PM |
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06/30/2024 10:29AM |
CanoeViking: "Is initial stability how stable it is when you’re getting in and secondary stability when you’re paddling?"
Quick video explanation
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06/30/2024 10:35AM |
billconner: "The Souris River Quetico 17 or 18 would seem to fit this well. "
+1
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06/30/2024 10:30AM |
The more stable canoes based on my personal experience are
1. Any of the Souris River Quetico line of canoes
2. Wenonah Boundary Waters canoe
The Champlain looks stable, just haven’t used it.
I have the Northwind 17, it’s stable but it doesn’t feel as stable as the ones above. The MN II/III even more so. From your description it would take time to get used to those canoes.
T
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06/30/2024 11:03AM |
timatkn: "Unless you just get a deal on a canoe, I’d try to paddle a few and compare.
The more stable canoes based on my personal experience are
1. Any of the Souris River Quetico line of canoes
2. Wenonah Boundary Waters canoe
The Champlain looks stable, just haven’t used it.
I have the Northwind 17, it’s stable but it doesn’t feel as stable as the ones above. The MN II/III even more so. From your description it would take time to get used to those canoes.
T"
These all seem like great options. I have paddled the MN III and if things are loaded low it felt great but was not near as stable as my Smokercraft. Is my standard too high?
Also, where is a good place to try some of these out? I live near Rochester, MN.
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06/30/2024 03:43PM |
From Wenonah, I believe the Boundary Waters has a similar hull shape. But I would also be interested to try a Champlain.
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06/30/2024 07:37PM |
OneMatch: "Can't beat the Northstar Northwind."
+1
I am a convert to this model as the best tandem tripper for our needs after many years of insisting on the SRQ17. Very stable both loaded and when fishing or day tripping without gear.
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07/01/2024 08:53PM |
CanoeViking: "I just found a SQ 18.5 for $1995 in good shape.
Any questions I should ask when buying a used Kevlar SQ canoe?"
Private owner of outfitter? Outfitter canoes tend to be a little more beat. But price seems right.
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07/01/2024 10:23PM |
For a confidence inspiring craft that -won't- roll back over once it starts to roll, and will flip instead - just how the flat bottom hull works - the Wenonah Champlain and Boundary Waters are excellent boats for tandems, Seneca for triples (or quads if you don't have much gear). Plenty of room for people and gear and they don't rock much. I also enjoyed the SR Quetico 17s I paddled on several trips, but I think if I was going to buy a flat bottom Kevlar canoe, it'd likely be a Boundary Waters. Just a great boat.
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07/02/2024 09:55AM |
CanoeViking: "I just found a SQ 18.5 for $1995 in good shape.
Any questions I should ask when buying a used Kevlar SQ canoe?"
Probably pretty obvious, but:
1. How old is it, and how was it stored (hopefully not in direct sun.)
2. One owner? Was it ever a rental?
3. Has it had any significant repairs, and if so what and by who?
4. Has it been refinished? How, how many times, and by who?
5. How flat is the bottom? Any sign of washboarding? (SR’s are a bit prone to this as they age - not sure if it affects performance or not.)
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07/02/2024 10:06PM |
Jaywalker: "CanoeViking: "I just found a SQ 18.5 for $1995 in good shape.
Any questions I should ask when buying a used Kevlar SQ canoe?"
Probably pretty obvious, but:
1. How old is it, and how was it stored (hopefully not in direct sun.)
2. One owner? Was it ever a rental?
3. Has it had any significant repairs, and if so what and by who?
4. Has it been refinished? How, how many times, and by who?
5. How flat is the bottom? Any sign of washboarding? (SR’s are a bit prone to this as they age - not sure if it affects performance or not.)
"
I don’t think it as good of a deal as thought.
1. Age unknown
2. Owner - part of an outfitter, could get a straight answer on service life.
3. No major repairs
4. It has being refinished at least once
5. No signs of washboarding
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07/03/2024 08:20AM |
CanoeViking: "Also, some of the companies offer and sliding front sit for a $100 is this worth the money and weight?"
Primary use is to help trim the boat. For some hull types this may affect handling more than others (I've read suggestions that this is why they're usually standard equipment in Wenonah's diamond-hull boats*). While tripping, trim can largely be achieved by loading your packs correctly. A sliding seat might be more useful if you want perfect trim on your local lake. Or you're frequently swapping out kids and adults in the front/back.
My first boat was a NW17 with a front slider but the Polaris I downsized to has wood drops. I don't miss it.
*Here's an interesting comparison of Northstar and Wenonah's canoe design philosophies from someone who knows what they're talking about.
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07/03/2024 05:28PM |
CanoeViking: "
I don’t think it as good of a deal as thought.
1. Age unknown
2. Owner - part of an outfitter, could get a straight answer on service life.
3. No major repairs
4. It has being refinished at least once
5. No signs of washboarding"
Well, no washboarding and no big repairs is good. And age unknown/ outfitter is less good, and it’s not a big deal of refinished. One advantage of the SRQs is they are easy to refinish, particularly because they have an outer most layer of fiberglass. And they do clean up well. Below is mine after I refinished it, then after 20 day solo in Wabakimi. After I got back, I refinished it again and it’s back to the first shot.
Whether or not you found a good deal or not I won’t say, but I will encourage you to look here. I am not affiliated in any way - just stumbled on it by accident.
I rarely jump in on “which canoe” questions unless I can answer specifics about SRQs, which is what I have. Lots of other people know more. I bought my canoe in that phase between Bell and Northstar. It’s been very good to me and my dogs and I love how it looks (le trigre red), but honestly if a tree fell on it tomorrow I would first thoroughly check out Northstar before I ran back up to Atikoken.
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07/03/2024 10:41PM |
Jaywalker:
Souris River sure does make some beautiful layups.
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07/04/2024 06:38AM |
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07/04/2024 10:06PM |
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07/07/2024 01:52PM |
Northwind 18 would be another option that is good
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07/07/2024 09:22PM |
schweady: "OneMatch: "Can't beat the Northstar Northwind."
+1
I am a convert to this model as the best tandem tripper for our needs after many years of insisting on the SRQ17. Very stable both loaded and when fishing or day tripping without gear.
"
Do you have the 17 or 18?
I’m on the fence on which to buy. I have a young daughter who will be my main paddling partner and she’s only about 75# right now. It’ll be years until she’s 140#. It’ll be used for morning and evening, lightly loaded fishing trips too.
TIA
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07/07/2024 09:29PM |
papalambeau: "OneMatch: "Can't beat the Northstar Northwind."
Our crew has all four makes - Souris River, Northstar Northwind, Mad River and Wenonah. Long stories how we ended up with all four makes (some great deals on used canoes) but the one that is everyone's favorite to be in for fishing or camping trips is the Northstar Northwind.
Very stable and handles like a charm. My wife can't be in the other three after starting trips out in the Northstar. That says it all right there!"
What size NW?
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07/07/2024 10:13PM |
I spent last week on Kawishiwi Lake with family. My uncle brought the same 17'6" Alumacraft that I've dreaded portaging for the last 12 years and I ended up in the stern Wednesday morning, jigging in a strong walleye chop and the 'empty' stability absolutely blew me away. Honestly I was laughing out loud in admiration as we were maneuvering in the waves to set and adjust anchors. For reference I spent most of the week in my kevlar Prism and Adirondack and I have an Odyssey (MN2) that was left at home. It had been years since I spent that much time in an aluminum canoe and I really wasn't expecting it at all. Every canoe is a compromise! I'm still going to prefer the lightweight kevlar but I certainly have more respect for choosing aluminum in 2024. I know that keel-ed alumacraft also has very competitive speed, glide and efficiency, which you're just not going to get in a kevlar hull built for stability.
*I edited this post to reflect that the Odyssey is very similar to a Minnesota 2, originally I had written MN3, which is a larger, 20' canoe.
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07/08/2024 07:53AM |
I'm not trying to insult kevlar canoes. I am not about to switch, I'll happily paddle a canoe that weighs half as much. I am not a canoe expert. But there was something about the way that Alumacraft stayed planted in gusts up to 25mph, with only humans and fishing tackle for weight, that I've never experienced in a Wenonah. Seriously, I was laughing out loud.
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07/08/2024 07:18AM |
Z4K: "
I know that keel-ed alumacraft also has very competitive speed, glide and efficiency, which you're just not going to get in a kevlar hull built for stability."
What kevlar hulls do you think wouldnt keep up with a an alumacraft? We have a qt17cl and a Northwind 17, the northwind isnt exactly a barge but it isn't like many of the wenonahs with their sharp entry and that thing will get us across a lake in 2/3 the time the alumacraft would.
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07/09/2024 09:59AM |
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07/10/2024 02:12PM |
Z4K: "I can only speak to the kevlar tandem canoes I own, which would be an Odyssey and an Adirondack, both made by Wenonah. Before them we had a couple fiberglass Jensens in the group, which I believe were some of the fastest canoes around in their heydey. I tried to be intentionally vague as I'm not out on the lake with a stopwatch, but I have paddled one of my tandems alongside the Alumacraft in question on at least 10 trips, and in my opinion, that Alumacraft has always kept up and usually leads the pack when the wind is up. I do not believe that it is faster than my Odyssey but it's not much slower, at least not at 'tripping' speed. We are not racers. ."
Ummm, no comparison in speed and efficiency between MNII or Odyssey and an Alumacraft hull. In returning from a Q trip and paddling down Jackfish Bay in the early 90's with my MNII we passed a pair of young buff scouts laboring in an Alumacraft. I was paddling stern, my wife was nursing our year old son in the bow. Scouts were deeply embarrassed but could not keep pace.
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07/18/2024 08:33PM |
I own a Northstar 16 now, but I don't do family trips anymore...