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Boundary Waters Quetico Forum :: Gear Forum :: Fast Canoe Paddle
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| Author | Message Text | ||
| Basketcase |
Z4K: "The cost of your equipment matters not if you are out of shape. Spend 200 hours paddling between now and your trip and you'd be faster in a sportspal with a plastic Caviness than if you were in a proper C2 with a Zav following 0 hours of training. This reminds me of the controversy over high-tech swimsuits for middle schoolers." I fully agree with your comment. And, this is not a concern for me. I basically workout ~2 hours a day (4-5 days a week) and my job is a physical therapist, so have a doctorate in physical medicine. I’ve also done ultra-marathons and have no problem pushing through being uncomfortable. My education, however, is not helpful when it comes to the best gear for this activity. Hence, the thread question. |
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| Basketcase |
Weight difference from ZRE to Black Lite/Black Pearl is ~7oz compared to ~18oz. The aluminum paddle I used last year weighed in at ~30oz. The AquaBound Stingray carbon double I will be bringing checks in at ~28oz. I’ll try the outfitter edition of the Black Lite this year and upgrade to the ZRE next year since I’m focusing on a set money limit for gear upgrades in other areas for this trip. All the advice I’ve gotten on this thread will make a significant impact on our route time. For clarity, we are not going for a FKT, but, we don’t intend to be taking it easy getting to knife. I’ll send my route and time in this forum when we get back in early June. Thanks again for all the help and advice here. You are all truly great assets to improving the experience in BWCAW. |
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| Basketcase |
Technique. ? Light paddle. ? Bring a single, and a double. ? Wearing women’s undergarments assist with wanting to get through the next section faster, if only to be able to change out of them at the portage. ?? I’ve considered looking into used paddles online but am hesitant. Lack of inspection, micro-fissures, knock-offs, etc. Is there a respectable business or person on here who peddles these items? I’m a yearly BW trip guy (May), considering a 2x/year if I can get the wife (and her panties) away from work in August. So, investment vs yearly storage and whatnot. Is there a places I could rent these items? But, would the rentals be junk? Sorry, thinking via text… |
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| Ausable |
For what it's worth, I bought a used Wenonah bent shaft carbon paddle from Piragis Outfitters at the end of the paddling season when they sell their rental stuff. The paddle had scratches, of course, but otherwise it was in great shape. |
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| mgraber |
billconner: "Not at all stupid to bring a single and a double. I always do on my solos." +1! |
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| Basketcase |
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| Basketcase |
I’ll be riding tandem with a buddy, if that makes a difference for recommendations. |
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| Jackfish |
Basketcase: "What do the FKT canoe people use?" Maybe I should know this, but what are FKT canoe people? |
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| TCJET |
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| RMinMN |
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| davidveale |
The double I bought was intended to be cheap (used for $90) and allow me dip my toes into the water of double-blade use. The adjustable length is nice, though I find myself usually using the 270 length. I wonder about the durability of the exterior clamp mechanism, but it's been fine for me now after a few years of use. I'd probably prefer a full carbon blade, but this seems to work fine. Here's what I've got: https://wernerpaddles.com/collections/fishing/products/skagit-hooked-adjustable-straight-shaft-closeout It's hard to quantify, but I really prefer the aesthetics of the single blade. Just seems more pleasant to use. If I want a relaxing paddle around the lake in the evening, that's what I use. Because you've always got a blade up in the air, doubles tend to drip a lot of water up into the boat, particularly if it's windy. Something also worth noting is that you can really wear yourself out trying to go fast. I can't cite any studies or real numbers, but my gut feeling is that doubling your expended effort might result in about a 25% increase in speed. Any shoulder or back injuries will flare up much more when you're pushing it. Another consideration is that your boat will likely affect speed as much if not more than the paddle. Generally speaking, a longer waterline and narrower beam make for a faster boat, but increases in length and decreases in beam will also reduce stability, which could be a real liability in rough weather. While the most popular boats are rarely the fastest, they're usually the best combination of speed/capacity/stability/durability. Whenever you focus on improving a single aspect of a canoe, the others tend to suffer. |
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| timatkn |
If that bothers ya (okay if it does) might not be the best operation to purchase from. But I’d just give them more time if it was me. T |
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| sns |
I ordered the GRB last year and I think Gene got sick - it did take 3 months to get the paddle. |
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| Basketcase |
Canoecopia in WI sounds like a great opportunity, especially to learn and feel some of the different stuff out there. I’m in South Dakota, so probably won’t make that though. FKT = fastest known time For the people who want to make a run and have the time record. I was just curious if they are using anything specifically for these trials. I called Piragis outfitters and they have the Black Lite Carbon Elbow and the Black Pearl 11 used outfitter additions for $170 plus $30 shipping. They don’t have doubles. I’ll be getting and bringing a single and double on my trip. I already have a tow lined up from VCO to past American Point. I’ll be tandem in a Wenonah Kevlar Basswood from the outfitter. And, that’s not the first +1 I am reading about technique. So, will be brushing up on the ole sit-and-spin, I mean, sit-and-switch for sure! Still waiting to hear back on military discount from AquaBound… |
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| MikeinMpls |
I have a Bending Branches Black Pearl with an 11-degree offset. Superlight. Expensive though. Mike |
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| Basketcase |
30% discount at AquaBound for military, btw. Blew my mind. |
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| Frenchy19 |
billconner: "Not at all stupid to bring a single and a double. I always do on my solos." Yep! |
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| Basketcase |
The wealth of knowledge here is fantastic. Ok, ordered a carbon double from AquaBound. The outfitter has Black Lite Carbon elbows, so I will try that this time around and upgrade to the ZRE for my next trip. Baby steps, yeah? I will also be changing the ‘target’ to a Minnesota II instead of the bathtub, read basswood. ?? I appreciate all the knowledge here and believe you all have answered my questions, including a lot of questions I didn’t know existed. |
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| Ahahn366 |
Basketcase: "Lots to follow up on: Rather than renting the Wenonah bathtub get a Minnesota Two, and remember every time you drag a paddle to correct steering it's the same as breaking |
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| sns |
Ahahn366: "Rather than renting the Wenonah bathtub get a Minnesota FKT or not, if you are concerned about speed, this is a much bigger component than the paddle. That said, you want a ZRE or a GRB carbon fiber bent shaft. I have both, and they are awesomexcellent gear. |
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| THEGrandRapids |
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| timatkn |
To get to Knife the fastest. #1 take a tow. I don’t consider any of the motorized lakes the BWCAW and want through them ASAP…it’s like saying the Fernberg Road is in the BWCAW…no…it’s just a way to Get to the BWCAW. You already have it lined up, just reinforcing the choice. A Carbon bent shaft using the switch or Hut method (don’t know about the double blade—could be faster) as light as possible is going to get you there the fastest. The ZRE is a great choice. Don’t know what your canoe type is? But that might matter more than the blade you use. Narrower, longer canoe should be faster. Let us know your FKT when it’s over. T |
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| TreeBear |
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| justpaddlin |
A little physical conditioning could also be very helpful vs just taking on a long/hard paddle with no prep. |
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| ISRO |
Basketcase: "Have I ever mentioned I love forums? Black lite carbon is a club compared to a ZRE weight wise. |
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| davidveale |
Note that a double-blade for a canoe will typically be much longer than one for a kayak due to the fact that they're wider and you're sitting up much higher. Mine is 270cm -- a Werner marketed for fishing kayaks. |
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| Basketcase |
What do the FKT canoe people use? |
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| Basketcase |
Reading the previous articles about using a double paddle, looks like the Aquabound Stingray and the Werner Kalliste are the favored options. Black Lite Elbow in Carbon, or something similar, would be the single paddle recommendation. Is it stupid to want to bring a double and a single paddle? |
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| Ausable |
Double-blade paddle recommendations Kayak paddles with offset grips For single blade paddles, you will want to look at bent-shaft paddles with offsets of 10-12 degrees. For the lightest weight, look at carbon fiber blades. The racing folks seem to prefer those from Zaveral Racing Equipment (ZRE). A less expensive alternative would be a Wenonah Black Light (mine is 52 inches long and weighs 13 ounces). Several others make them, but ZRE is probably the lightest (and most expensive). To get maximum speed in a tandem with 2 paddlers, you'll have to adopt the racers' techniques: a shorter stroke than you might normally do, increased cadence, both paddlers switching sides simultaneously, etc |
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| billconner |
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| Ahahn366 |
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| Blatz |
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| sns |
billconner: "Not at all stupid to bring a single and a double. I always do on my solos." +1. My feeling is that the biggest difference-maker for a single blade is the light weight. Lifting a 2 pound paddle 10,000 times makes one more fatigued than lifting an 8oz paddle the same number of times. Blade shape and angle are important too, but for me I really notice the weight. In fact, my super-light carbon fiber paddles are so buoyant that they pop back up out of the water at the end of every stroke. Lovely feeling…. Like wearing ladies underwear. |
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| ISRO |
ZRE PowerSurge Expedition 52" as my single blade Aqua Bound Tango Carbon as my double blade. 260CM |
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| Basketcase |
I appreciate you opening the door regarding conditioning. I have that covered. |
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| Z4K |
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| tumblehome |
Z4K: "The cost of your equipment matters not if you are out of shape. ." Thank you. Finally said. Your canoe paddle is a very very small part of the speed of your travel. Your body is the biggest factor in speed. And nobody has mentioned the wind. A head-wind trumps everything. Plan on 4 mph on a good day and use that as a benchmark. If this is indeed a ‘race’ to knife then I guess…have a good time! Tom |
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| justpaddlin |
Basketcase: "2 emails sent to GRB… crickets…" I think you have to call Gene. 315-323-0946. I think that must be his private cell number because every time I've called he always seems surprised. He's a great guy and will tell you what delivery time you can expect. I hope his health is OK. |
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| GopherAdventure |
sns: "billconner: "Not at all stupid to bring a single and a double. I always do on my solos." lol! Also, you’re right on. +1 People always seem to forget that you’re doing this repetitive motion all day and a few ounces can really make a world of a difference. The only drawback I’ve found with the CF paddles is that you need to be delicate with them. You’re not going to want to shove off of rocks with it, drag it on the ground along portages, or use it to prop up a tarp guy line, etc. They’re just not as tough as wood, but you’ll notice the difference immediately on the water. I have both a Kayak and Canoe paddle in CF and love them. Well worth the extra money. I have an Aqua Bound yak paddle in the 280 cm length. You’ll want that, 270 is probably too short for anyone 6’ and up. Have a great trip! Tony |
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| Basketcase |
- I used the carbon-fiber bent shaft from the outfitter and this worked great. - My friend was reluctant to switch to the MN2 from the Basswood, so we were stuck with the bathtub for our duration (although, on the trip back from knife to AP we had 2' swells and I was grateful for the stability of the BW) - We were able to make it from AP to knife (with 2 trips back and forth on monument portages due to the amount of crap we brought) in 5 hours and 42 minutes; we also had ideal conditions of flat seas and a 5mph tailwind - Our return trip from knife to AP was 7 hours and 15 minutes due to the sustained 25mph winds that gusted to 5mph never (where is the throwing-up emoji?) - I brought the kayak paddles, but I only used them for about 30 minutes for the entry and not once on the return. The carbon bent was good enough to handle everything and even better in the rough sea conditions so I could get more power when I needed it. - Cold water fishing is completely different than warm water. We burned through 2 pounds of leeches last year and over 400 fish caught last year in a week. We caught 7 total fish this year and went through 8 leeches of our total 2 pounds. Make sure you do your research on how to fish cold water before you go during this time of year. However, my PR Walleye and the over 50" Pike (think Human Centipede of a half-dozen Folger's cans) I had next to the canoe more than made up for the rest of the downtime... Let me know if you have other questions. Put your gear back where you grab it from. I don't know how long I spent looking for my friend's Gerber or camp-soap.. I have dry-bags of different colors for a reason. Hydration stuff goes in the blue, electronics go in the orange, poop-kit/washing stuff goes in the gray, etc |