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09/20/2009 08:17AM |
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10/21/2009 03:56PM |
Refer back to Old Scout's math. His math makes a lot more sense and the average cost per year is much less than renting over a lengthy period of ownership.
Special considerations that apply to me are:
If you live 2,000 miles from all those portages, thereby limiting the number of trips you might make, it might be wiser to rent kevlar than to buy it.
If you are already in your twilight years, kevlar may be the only thing you can carry but it might be wiser to rent it. You might have fewer years left to get you money's worth.
If I lived in Wisconsin or Minnesota, and I was in my forties (with an eye to the future), I would not hesitate to buy a used kevlar canoe (or two).
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10/21/2009 07:09PM |
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10/21/2009 07:19PM |
I know guys that have spent more on a set of golf clubs than I gave spent on canoes. I bought my golf clubs at a yard sale for 15 bucks. I've spent quite a bit on some fly rods, and I don't fish a whole lot better than I golf. It just depends on your priorities.
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10/21/2009 08:10PM |
Actually I think my math is sound.
I am in my 40's.
I am 5' 11" and in shape, sort of I guess. I can bench much more than I weigh. So the weight of the canoe isn't a big deal to me.
So, I am still young enough to carry a bit more weight than some folk. I don't think I am quite needing to rent yet, perhaps in another 20 years or so.
So for now, I don't have to spend squat until I can't carry my canoe. I can't see the advantage of upgrading. Perhaps you are different. That is what makes life interesting, we are all different.
If you have the money then why not buy a kevlar boat. But . . .if you have a serviceable boat and you are still fit enough to carry it then I would at least pause and consider the decision.
And if you are at least a little bit handy, then I would advise you to build your own canoe. You can change anything you want, you can make it with more rocker or less, give it tumblehome, perhaps you want it to be 14" deep instead of 13", whatever.
You may just get a better boat than you can buy, and I will guarantee that you will have more pride in your boat if you have built it. Plus nothing, absolutely nothing, is better than paddling a wooden boat.
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09/14/2009 12:55PM |
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09/14/2009 06:43PM |
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09/14/2009 09:07PM |
If you happen to see a classic MN2 (without Gelcoat)that looks like granny got to it say hi!
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09/14/2009 07:01AM |
With dignity and respect: horse-hockey! In My Opinion.
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09/13/2009 09:30PM |
I'll bet a quick email to Adam will help you with your password problem.
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09/20/2009 09:53PM |
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09/20/2009 10:20PM |
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09/21/2009 09:19PM |
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09/12/2009 02:55PM |
For those that forked over the dough for a Kevlar or carbon canoe, any regrets?
I know I sure would have appreciated one on my last trip (mile portage in and out).
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09/12/2009 05:07PM |
No regrets what so ever. I bought my first Kevlar 7 years ago, a Swift, Kipawa model. It has been perfect for us on trips up to three or four nights. It is fast and nimble but lacks the stability many like for fishing. We added the Souris River Quetico 18.5, 5 years ago for week long trips and it is a very stable fishing platform which we both like. It is a joy to load and easy to trim. While I am completely pleased with both different purchases/canoes I do wet foot more and don't go with reckless abandon as with my aluminum model. I don't baby them, but I don't abuse them either, I expect many more years from both.
I would recommend to anyone to look for a used model, this can cut the price in half and if it needs attention or work there are many helpful sites, Red Rock, Rutabaga to name a couple. It is a great way to purchase and enjoy the attributes of kevlar w/o paying full price.
Boppa
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09/12/2009 05:22PM |
It is the most stable canoe I've ever been in. It is a little slower than some of the others but not bad. I'll take roomy and stable over fast.
It will be kevlar (or carbon or whatever's next) for me for wilderness canoes from here on out.
You do want to be a little more gentle with these than you might with an old aluminum canoe or a royalex model. But just common sense stuff, be careful putting it down or into the water so you don't smash it on a rock. Don't drag it onto shore, especially loaded. Don't stand in it when its not floating (i.e. on a rock).
Personally I wet foot and would advise anyone going kevlar to do the same. Trying to dry foot land typically means abusing your canoe. Now wet foot doesn't have to mean wet. You could go with mukluks or those snake boots that mr barley and WhiteH20 like.
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09/12/2009 05:35PM |
buying used is fine, either private or outfitter. know the used market and what you're buying. inspect every inch.
joe over at redrock is a great resource for advice or questions if you are interested in souris river.
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09/12/2009 07:14PM |
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09/12/2009 07:22PM |
However, have you taken a kevlar canoe on a trip to be able to say it's totally not worth it?
Of course "worth it" is only a relative term, that differs from person to person.
On one of the trips I did in the past, my Buddy Ben (who worked at Bending Branches then) borrowed his boss's kevlar racing canoe...man, that thing was rocket powered compared to the aluminum boat me and my partner were paddling...the whole trip was a struggle to keep up with him and that damn boat!
I'm thinking eventually I'll spring for one, but I'll probably try a rental on a short trip just to make sure I know just how much better it can be...
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09/12/2009 07:33PM |
I own a Mad River Lamoille for which I managed to find an outstanding deal several years ago and I haven't looked back. It's great on the portages and has great glide as we paddle.
It's been a gradual upgrade of all our gear over the years for our regular group of Quetico paddlers and we've enjoyed every upgrade. Do what you can, when you can, and you won't regret it.
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09/12/2009 07:56PM |
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09/12/2009 08:27PM |
fruedian slip?
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09/12/2009 08:00PM |
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09/12/2009 08:30PM |
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09/12/2009 08:22PM |
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09/13/2009 04:35PM |
Over the years I have purchased a few used (outfitter canoes), you usually can find these for about 50% of new retail in the 2 to 3 year old range. I have had a number that I have used for 8 to 10 years and if I sell I'm sure I can get $500-$600 for them without any trouble.
Here's the math. Average kevlar canoe new $2,400.00, good used outfitter canoe $1,200.00, use for 8 years at $75.00 per year and sell for $600.00.
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09/14/2009 12:32PM |
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09/12/2009 11:09PM |
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09/13/2009 04:19PM |
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09/13/2009 06:11PM |
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09/14/2009 11:53AM |
I also agree with Winemaker on SR. I've owned 2 Wenonahs, a Bell, and a SR Q17 and they have all held up fine. SR probably are a little more durable but it is nothing I noticed in real world use.
The other thing to consider is that good composite canoes hold their value fairly well. As the prices of new ones go up, the prices of used seem to be following.
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09/14/2009 12:47PM |
Cowdoc
Both!
In the years when I didn't do any BWCA trips (approx 03' to 09')
I had a few years of really bad lower back pain...all has been good the last couple of years (knock on wood) but I would just as soon never have to go through that again...makes a person feel kinda helpless, when it just tieing your shoes makes you grimace in pain...
Yeah, I'm definatly considering going with a used one when the time comes...lots of things I could do with an extra grand laying around lol.
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09/14/2009 08:10PM |
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09/15/2009 04:24PM |
Kevlar canoes do have to be treated with care; we paddle in rubber boots, and are able to take care with landing and loading.
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10/21/2009 02:21PM |
I think I paid $700 for mine back in the mid 1990's. I'd probably get about $300 for it now I'd guess. So let me do a bit of math. Say the new boat I want is a Souris River Quetico 17. It lists on the manufacturer's website for $2595 plus $200 shipping (to Ohio). So let's just say $2800. It weights 44 lbs. So I sell my boat and now we are down to $2500. There is about 23 lbs different between the two boats so . . . it will cost be about $108 per pound that I would save. Maybe it is just me, but I could find a much better use for that kind of scratch then a lighter boat.
And if you really want a thing of beauty build yourself a cedar stripper. My Merlin weights 45 lbs and is just beautiful. And probably cost me (in 2003 when I built it) about $650.
Now with all that said, I would certainly consider renting one in the future when I become too feeble to pick up the Mohawk.
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10/21/2009 02:58PM |
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09/12/2009 09:34PM |
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09/12/2009 11:03PM |
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09/13/2009 07:09AM |
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09/13/2009 03:03PM |
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09/13/2009 05:15PM |
Also, maybe it's time to quit being a guest, eh? Make it official and register one of these days.