Boundary Waters Quetico Forum :: Gear Forum :: transitioning from backpacking to canoeing
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Jackfish |
Now if we can just get people to start using the "Add a link" feature... |
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drought |
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jaimed |
I see the cost/benefit of taking a tarp. I'll do that. I'm also thinking hard about food. I'd like to take a few more "luxury" foods. I have children to impress the virtues of this life style. I'm not planning on going hog wild on cooking though. I really like A Fork in the Trail-Laurie Ann March and Wilderness Cuisine-Carole Latimer. I'll stick with these recipes for the most part. I think peoples concern about packs is not so much how difficult it is getting in and out of a canoe rather how difficult it is carrying a canoe with the pack sticking up so high. Am I right? I'm going to deal with it though, at least for the first trip with the "troops". We'll see after that. This looks very doable and rather tame compared to some of the things I've done BC (before children). WE should have a wonderful time in the "snaky woods" as my 3 year old calls it. Those with little kids should get this joke. Next big questions to tackle are a route and canoe. I'll save those questions for after I do some research on my own. I found my map from 25 years ago. It's a little worn and has a bunch of blood stains from killing mosquitoes but I'm sure the lakes haven't moved ;] |
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canoe212 |
quote bradcrc: "I think you'll be fine with your current stuff. I couldn't agree more. I would rather be comfortable on the trail than save the 10 seconds it takes to load the canoe with a internal frame backpack. I've always loaded my internal frame(and some external frames) below the gunwales. So once loaded there is no difference. I don't understand why people are so worried about saving time loading and unloading the canoe. |
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rlhedlund |
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Humdinger |
This is a great place for advice and you're soaking it up. Pretty soon you will be geared up and at... Three trees. H |
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boonie |
quote jaimed: "add what you want to sayquote thatguyjeff: |
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boonie |
quote boonie: "quote jaimed: "quote thatguyjeff: |
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boonie |
quote boonie: "quote boonie: "quote jaimed: "quote thatguyjeff: |
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Jackfish |
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jaimed |
I guess you cannot do a quote in red (or what ever this color and typeface is) and then go back to black typeface within the same message. |
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BWPaddler |
quote jaimed: "Guess I didn't make myself clear. I understand to click on quote and edit out material and then type away. I already did that. you mean like this? |
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Savage Voyageur |
quote BWPaddler: "quote jaimed: "Guess I didn't make myself clear. I understand to click on quote and edit out material and then type away. I already did that. Ok I have to try this... |
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Savage Voyageur |
quote Savage Voyageur: "quote BWPaddler: "quote jaimed: "Guess I didn't make myself clear. I understand to click on quote and edit out material and then type away. I already did that. Got it down now :) |
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jaimed |
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boonie |
quote jaimed: "quote jaimed: "How?" There |
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jaimed |
quote thatguyjeff: |
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boonie |
quote Jackfish: "LOL... glad you got it, Boonie. You know I was just teasing you, right? Yeah, I know you were, Jackfish. No problemo. I thought it was pretty funny at the time too. I was doing what I did before and not getting the same results. In fact, I was getting the same results he was. I've got the "add a link" feature down too...but I haven't used it in a couple of days ;). |
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jaimed |
quote jaimed: "How?" Testing Okay, got it. |
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boonie |
quote boonie: "quote jaimed: "quote jaimed: "How?" Yeah, that's what I thought, Jackfish :). Apparently, it just wasn't working at that time. Just took me a while to figure that out :). |
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fishguts |
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Humdinger |
BAD BAD BAD... Bad advice on the Kevlar canoe. I strongly suggest you use the heaviest aluminum canoe you can find, especially one that has leaks at the seams of the float chambers to allow water in so you can portage a couple extra gallons of water with you! You need to experience the pain of a metal canoe before you can appreciate the light stuff. Without true pain, I couldn't have experienced remorse free joy of drilling 1/2" drains holes in my dad's 85# Lund canoe after my first trip. Seriously, slowly gear up as you go and test & learn as you go. Eat better food, take a tarp, and start out cheap or borrowing gear. Read this site and you will build some of your own gear or not be afraid of things like "kitty litter buckets" or "maytag lids". At least those items offset the expensive stuff when you get Jones-ing really bad. |
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mc2mens |
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9th Bearded Infantry |
quote Beemer01: "Easier to go from backpacking to canoeing than canoeing to backpacking. I would agree with this. I didn't get entirely geared up where I wanted to be for the BW until my 3rd trip. For that 3rd trip, I bought a lot of stuff. After the trip, we decided to start doing BW every other year and find somewhere to go backpacking during the non-BW years. Well, I ended up having to re-buy a ton of gear (pack, lighter sleeping pad, new sleeping bag, lighter cookware/stove, trekking poles, stuff sacks, GPS) to be light enough for our Yosemite trip this summer. The GPS wasn't a "need" but it'll be a nice insurance policy since I'm new to backpacking and if we're gonna be off-trail, I'll be glad to do the "are we sure we are where we think we are" check if things ever don't seem right. I even wanted to get a new tent but after buying all that, I had to draw the line somewhere so my TNF Tadpole will have to do, even though she's heavier than I want. However, now that I'm set I don't have to buy any gear so future trips will only cost me the permits, travel and food....and maybe a lighter tent for 2012 :) If I had gone the other way around, the only thing I would have had to buy was a portage pack. |
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mogos |
and, laid down on it's side alongside the yoke or a thwart, or even laid down with the straps facing the sky, it's never seemed hard to fit it into the canoe. i won't dispute that a true portage pack sits on the bottom of the canoe more naturally, but even a large internal frame pack goes in and out without too much trouble. but i'll also confess that my portage packs are NOT equipped with the most comfortable padding and straps (including one hardcore, old school canvas and leather duluth pack). so i try to keep those portage packs as light as possible. the comfort contrast between my internal frame pack and portage packs is significant. |
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jaimed |
I have ultralight, backpacking gear. Everything from titanium cookware that doubles as plates, Whisperlight stove, Sierra cup, interior and exterior framed packs (depending on the trip). Even a spork to save an ounce of weight! Do you all think differently? Do you take more "luxury" items? I've read that my packs are inappropriate. I might also want to bring along a few h20 proof bags. From my reading, I see BWCA people eat a lot better. I like that! How useful do you folks consider stoves like the Whisperlight on canoe trips? What about footware? Tarps? I wouldn't dream of packing a tarp on a backpacking trip. It seems EVERYONE takes tarps to BWCA. I just finished reading A Fork In The Trail-Laurie Ann March and Canoeing and Camping, beyond the basics-Cliff Jacobson. Both outstanding reads. I learned a great deal. |
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wetcanoedog |
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moosedrool |
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BWPaddler |
When do you go? If there is an area you hate about hiking/packing, then you could look at changing that on a canoe trip - long for a chair in camp? want fresh food that's never been shrink wrapped? want to bring War and Peace? All possible, for a price. Depending on your route (you can in theory put in on a large lake and camp on it) you can bring the kitchen sink if you are missing it. If you want to be mobile and see more lakes and get away from crowds, then hang on tight to your minimalist approach and see how far it takes you. Good luck and welcome. |
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solotrek |
I would suggest using what you have. I just now replaced my external frame packs that I've had for 27 years. I agree with WCD. A short trip using what you now have will help you determine what you would need to modify. |
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mogos |
if i was in your situation, i think my first purchase, as you suggest, would be a couple of waterproof stuff sacks -- one for my sleeping bag and one for my clothes. i'm very unwilling to have wet clothes or a wet sleeping bag. i often "double bag" (waterproof stuff sack in a water proof pack). to state the obvious, you'll come in contact with water far more frequently than on the trail. maybe you'll like sea to summit's dry bag line. the bags perform well and are lightweight (with all the time you've spent saving ounces, you'll probably always resist some of the "heavier" canoe camping gear choices). my second thought would be towards an expanded food storage strategy. you'll read descriptions here of diverse approaches, from the most expensive (insulated canoe food packs) to the least expensive (five gallon paint buckets in army surplus duffle bags) and many in between. but if you relish (no pun intended) the chance to dine a little more extravagantly than lipton soup mix and a power bar, then you'll want a way to keep that food together and keep it from bears and other woodland creatures. as the weight and bulk of food increases, bear-proofing it takes on additional challenges. you'll find myriad threads about footwear and tarps. tarps allow bigger groups to gather (rather than sending everyone back to their own tents) and they make camp more comfortable if you are going to stay for a day or two. and you'll find the silnylon options (from ccs, for example) are ultralight. everyone has their own opinions on footwear. but most agree that (at least) two pairs are essential -- one when you are underway and one for camp -- because one pair will almost certainly get wet, and you'll want to give that pair -- and your feet! -- some time to dry. in general, a backpacker's skills and perspective will be highly relevant -- and beneficial to canoe campers without it -- in the bwca. |
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jb in the wild |
If I was to suggest one piece of gear, Kevlar Canoe, one that works for your style of camping, other then that welcome and enjoy. |
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Beemer01 |
It'll all work, a big difference is that your pack WILL GET WET - waterproofing a backpack is harder to do, and they tend to be a bit more difficult to get into and out of the canoe. |
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boonie |
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andym |
I think going with your lightweight gear and a few luxuries will make a nice trip. |
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Amok |
You may need a different pack, as others have suggested. Otherwise just add some 'luxury' food, a paddle and a fishing pole :) |
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BWPaddler |
quote bradcrc: "People seem to like duluth packs, but I think it may be more tradition than necessity. Once you start going, stop at the end of the portages and take a look at the people using duluth packs and the people using frame packs and then compare which ones look like they are in less pain. " Hey now... portage packs are not all that bad for backpacking. Mine backpack regularly - relatively short distances (up to 3 miles in, 3 miles out) and do just fine. We use them to backpack into state and national parks to campsites or cabins, as well as BW tripping. My spouse's old external frame pack that saw hundreds of miles of walking has been gathering dust since the canoe packs took over. Of course my packs have padded backs, hip and sternum belts, and all the adjustment straps and D-rings you could want... |
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bradcrc |
People seem to like duluth packs, but I think it may be more tradition than necessity. Once you start going, stop at the end of the portages and take a look at the people using duluth packs and the people using frame packs and then compare which ones look like they are in less pain. :) |
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Beemer01 |
quote boonie: "I was also going to add that not all canoe packs are duluth packs. Many, like those made by Granite Gear - a name you may be familiar with from your backpacking background - are more like internal frame packs with padded shoulder straps, sternum straps, padded backs, and waist belts. They are plenty comfortable for portaging. " Very valid point - most of the competing canoe pack makers (CCS, Kondos, Granite Gear to name a few competing in this mico sized market) have pack that incorporate many features offered in modern backpacks. Cooke Custom Sewing's Pioneer Pack is a good example, but there are others. |
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BWPaddler |
quote bradcrc: "nothing wrong with using duluth packs if you like em, but I'm sure there are plenty of people out there who only use em cause they think they are supposed to." I have to admit that when I first started looking for BW gear, I **wanted** one of the classic Duluth Pack bags. I really wanted the authentic Duluth Pack of legendary stories, etc. I bought a few packs including a Duluth Pack, took them home, stuffed some gear into them and walked up and down from the house to the lake (can't recall if I added the canoe on top or not). In any case, one trek and I knew that for ME, the padded backs were well worth it and I had to let go of the idea that "classic" was better than "functional". I still peruse the Duluth Pack catalogs and love the feel of the canvas and the leather... and some day I may actually buy one as part of a fleet of bags - for soft stuff only - but as my only bag? Nope. Sorry, didn't mean to get us too far OT or start a debate about Duluth Packs... but yes, you're right when you said my packs were not the ones you were talking about. |
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bradcrc |
quote BWPaddler: " Of course my packs have padded backs, hip and sternum belts, and all the adjustment straps and D-rings you could want..." well now, those aren't exactly the duluth packs I was referring to then... ;) nothing wrong with using duluth packs if you like em, but I'm sure there are plenty of people out there who only use em cause they think they are supposed to. Personally, I find the ergonomic advancements made over the last 150 years to be worthwhile. :) |
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boonie |
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thatguyjeff |
The only problem (if you can even call it that) with the bpack is that they don't fit well in the bottom of the canoe. Portage packs and shorter and square to fit the canoe. Bpacks are long and can't fit sideways. When canoeing, depending on where you go, your stuff is in the canoe (as opposed to on your back) 90% of the time. So saving weight isn't really an issue. I'm a notorious over-packer too (so much "luxury" gear!). My portage pack often weighs in at 70 lbs. plus, not including food. And I bring a lb. of coffee, dried milk, sweetener, and a stainless steel insulated 20 oz. mug - just for coffee (forget that sierra cup crap!). I bring a pillow, two tarps, a pack table, like 3 flashlights, extra batteries, radio... yeah, I'm bad. |