Boundary Waters Quetico Forum :: Gear Forum :: Wenonah advantage questions?
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Alan Gage |
Any way you cut it though you got a great buy! Alan |
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Banksiana |
Old style yoke on an 86 Advantage. The new yoke works with the 86 as well |
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Alan Gage |
quote Banksiana: "Tuff-weave is Wenonah's fiberglass layup.. I don't think they were the same thing. This is a quote from Wenonah's website: "Tuf-weave Flex-core Wenonah’s Tuf-weave® material is an interwoven fabric made of 50% polyester and 50% fiberglass that out performs either material alone. The Tuf-weave® layup results in our most durable composite canoes. Tuf-weave® canoes offer improved impact resistance and are a great compromise between light weight, performance, and price." I've owned both Tuf-weave and fiberglass boats from Wenonah and they didn't appear to be the same. The interior texture was different. Not to mention the only tuf-weave boats I've seen from Wenonah only have those big ribs running left and right with no foam core on the bottom of the hull. And other than really old hulls (late 70's/very early 80's) all the fiberglass boats I've seen from Wenonah have used the same layup as ultralight Kevlar with foam bottom and ribs. The old fiberglass hulls I own (Jensen WWC1) from Wenonah have a single rib running the length of the hull. As far as I know the fiberglass layup is no longer available and never seemed to be really popular judging by the amount of them that come up on the used market. Alan |
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butthead |
My Kevlar UL weighs 33 lbs (my scale), all wood trim, before I added things. butthead |
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Dammfast |
I have had a bunch of people asking for some pictures. I am not sure what you all wanted pictures of but here you go. I will not be selling it any time soon. My brother gets first crack at it if I decide to sell it. Hope these help but I can take some more if need be. |
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HansSolo |
quote mr.barley: "quote Dammfast: Does anyone have the PDF of the 86 wenonah catalog?"Where's hansolo?" Hans Solo just got back from a 7-day Quetico Solo trip last night, so I have some catching up to do. Here's some additional information on the 1986 Wenonah Advantage.The spec sheet and catalog description is from a 1986 Wenonah Catalog. The price sheet is a 1989 price sheet. Although I have a 1986 price, it's a Dealer price sheet. Nevertheless, the weights and specs for the Advantage are the same for 1986 and 1989. Maybe my eyes are deceiving me, but I had a hard time deciphering if the hull was a Kevlar PVC Ultra-light lay-up or the "Tuf-weave" PVC Ultra-light lay-up. Even looking at the pictures now, it was difficult to tell if the interior was painted the standard beige or if it was just brown, aged Kevlar. Even in the 80's, Wenonah would sometimes leave the Tuf-weave Ultra-light lay-ups natural, (i.e., unpainted). But at other times, they'd paint the interior brown, just as they do with all their other Tuf-weave/non-Kevlar lay-ups. Due to the fact it has a gel-coat, it's most likely a Tuf-weave PVC core Ultra-light. The only way a Kevlar Ultra-light would have a pigmented gel-coat is if someone special ordered it that way. As most of us cane-heads know, Wenonah's Kevlar Ultra-light lay-ups come standard with a "skin-coat", (i.e., no gel-coat). Hans Solo |
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bobbwca |
Id have to check but if I remember right the tuffweave weighed 58 lbs |
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Dammfast |
If anyone has the 1986 wenonah catalog in PDF form I would love to see it. DammFast. |
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mr.barley |
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BrianDay |
MReid: "Thanks Brian. I remember the XL, but never come across anyone familiar with it." You're welcome. The XL is one of many historic models that doesn't seem to have much information available. Fun to dig through old newsletters and workbooks and learn a thing or two about these boats. |
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1stSatInMay |
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mr.barley |
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cowdoc |
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mr.barley |
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thebotanyguy |
Is it kevlar or Tuf-weave? You will have to weigh the canoe to determine that. I don't have any Wenonah catalogs from that early date, but it is probably not dissimilar to the 1996 canoes. The listed weights from that catalog are kevlar=33 lbs, Tuf-weave=43 lbs. Link from archive.org 1996 catalog |
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cowdoc |
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DeuceCoop |
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mr.barley |
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Dammfast |
Nope they won't load. |
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Banksiana |
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Ragged |
quote Banksiana: "Color of the interior looks like fiber glass or rather their "tuff weave" lay up. Weight confirms it. Kevlar with gel would be in the low thirties. Nice boat......" I don't think Kevlar with Colored Gelcoat would be in the low 30's, more like high 30's, 5-8lbs on top of whatever layup was used |
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Banksiana |
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Dammfast |
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Dammfast |
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Dammfast |
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mjmkjun |
bobbwca: "I have two advantages. Barleys old one in kevlar with white gell coat and the other is tuffweave. Agree. I had an '87 Advantage that now has a new owner/home in Duluth/Detroit Lakes, MN. That canoe in tuffweave layup weighed 54 lbs +/- pound. It came with the old style yoke and a quickie red paint job which developed spider cracks a few years later. Glide is smooth and is fast when you want it to be. |
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mcimes |
Here's why I think its Tuff - The inside of the boat appears to be opaque, like a creamy greyish color. I have only seen this appearance on Tuff weave boats. All the Kevlar wenonah's I have seen (UL or flex core) have had clear resin on the interior of the boat so you can see the golden kevlar fabric. Another thing to look at is the texture of the fabric on the inside of the boat. Kevlar fabric should be pretty much smooth. Tuff weave fabric will have more texture to it in the usual checker board pattern. Also, the weave size on tuff weave is bigger. Ill assume you've seen a Kevlar skin coat boat and know the standard size of Kevlar weave. The Tuff-weave weave is probably twice the size of the kevlar weave |
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mr.barley |
Still, $300 is a deal. |
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Banksiana |
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Dammfast |
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Banksiana |
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mr.barley |
quote Dammfast: Does anyone have the PDF of the 86 wenonah catalog?"Where's hansolo? |
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pblanc |
The Kevlar Wenonah Advantage with center-rib construction weighed 44 lbs with standard equipment, but your pictures clearly show that the boat is not a center-rib model. Further, as others have indicated, Wenonah painted the interior of their Tuf-weave models and left the Kevlar models clear. As with most manufacturers, the listed weights for Wenonah boats are typically optimistic by up to 10% so a weight of up to 46 lbs or so is very consistent with a PVC-Core, Tuf-weave Advantage. The Advantage is a wonderful boat and Tuf-weave construction is very tough. The only disadvantage relative to Kevlar is the 11 pound weight penalty. As for strength, I suspect Tuf-weave is actually stronger. Getting a boat like that in decent condition for $300 is a real score. Let me know when you want to sell it. |
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HansSolo |
Nice boat Turlock, but it appears to be the Tufweave/fiberglass ultra-light lay-up. If it was all Kevlar, you wouldn't be able to see the brown color of the PVC core and ribs. There's clearly Kevlar reinforcing in the bow and stern though. Also, in 1983 I'm not sure Wenonah had transitioned to their Tuf-weave lay-up yet, but it was around that time period. It just might be a composite fiberglass lay-up. Regardless, it's still a good build IMHO. I'd also question the 33 pound weight. The PVC stiffened ultra-light Tufweave/fiberglass lay-up is listed at 42-pounds. These are not criticisms just observations, because it's still a great solo canoe, albeit a little heavier than you might have figured. Hans Solo |
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Turlock |
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yellowcanoe |
I know jacksquat about them and find material history kind of interesting. I have Charlies info on Bell but that's about it. Sorry for the hijack.. |
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Banksiana |
If it's an 83 might it be one of the original "racing" advantages which were somewhat narrower? I have to say that I don not remember seeing a glass/core or tuff weave/core boat that early. |
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HansSolo |
quote Banksiana: "Hans- I think you might be referring to the Advantage XL Banksiana. It may not be Tuf-weave, but I'm quite sure it's not an Advantage XL. The Advantage XL had much harder chines and a very discernible mold flash line that ran up the sides of the hull. I'm not seeing those features in the photos. If it is in fact an 83', it's definitely an early version, because the Advantage was first released around 1982. I remember talking to Dave Kruger at a trade show in the early 80's about the Advantage XL, which he had on display in the Wenonah booth. The Advantage XL really peaked my interest, because sit & switch solo canoes of that ilk are what I like to paddle. In the early 80's, Wenonah cataloged the "standard" Advantage, which was a "de-tuned" Advantage XL and featured the more gradual tumblehome that I'm seeing in Turlock's photos. From what I remember, "Tuf-weave" wasn't really promoted until about 1985, although it was in the works for a few years before that. Hans Solo |
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Turlock |
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HansSolo |
quote Turlock: "Ah, I was not even aware they made an ultralight fiber glass model. That may very well be what it is. I weighed it this morning on bath scale and came up with 33lbs. Here is the hull number DK1031083. " I'm amazed it's that light for a Fiberglass ultra-light lay-up. Then again, yours has more of a thin clear gel-coat versus a pigmented gel-coat. That most likely shaved several pounds off of the hull's weight, but 33-pounds would be an exceptionally light fiberglass ultra-light. Those listed weights are approximations based on production averages. Usually canoe manufacturers will list the best case scenario weight. But environmental conditions can vary the canoe's final hull weight considerably, even during the same production run. It's possible you got a light one! :-) Hans Solo (1989 Wenonah list prices and canoe weights listed below) |
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Turlock |
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MReid |
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BrianDay |
HansSolo: "quote Banksiana: "Hans- Resurrecting this long dead thread. Been researching the Advantage lineage here at Wenonah. This is the information we have from our historic serial number files. Original Advantage was a stock class racer. 16'8" long. Serial number prefix DC or DK. Produced 1982-1984. Advantage XL was a faster, lower volume version. 16'10" long. Serial number prefix DL. Produced 1983-1984. In '83 the original Advantage was shifted from the race category to the cruiser category in Wenonah's catalog. The Advantage XL took over as the race boat. Current Advantage. 16'6" long. Deeper, rounder bow stem and altered tumblehome from original. Better suited to tripping. Serial Number prefix DK. Produced 1984-present. As you can see, there was some overlap between original and current Advantage in the 1984 model year. Best way to tell which version Advantage you might have is measuring length combined with model year shown in last two digits of the serial number. --Brian from Wenonah |