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NotLight	01/18/2016 05:46AM   quote andym: "I think the decision between MSP windpro or dragonfly comes down to how the individual user feels about liquid fuel versus canisters. One reason I switched to the windpro is not that I found the dragonfly hard to use with the pump and priming but that people I went with might not be good at it. With the windpro everyone learns quickly and can do it on their own. " Windpro is had to beat for hassle free - just connect it and light it.
billconner	01/18/2016 06:57AM   quote OldFingers57: "quote billconner: "It seems you want a lot of heat and stability. Have to think the Coleman Perfectflow 1 would be a good fit." Except he said he had a suitcase style stove and wanted something lighter then it. " Certainly the Perfectflow 1 weighs a lot less than the typical suitcase two burner stoves. Oddly I can't find weights on Coleman site. PS Perfectflow 2 suitcase - 12 pounds Perfectflow 1 proposed - 2.1 pounds MSR Dragonfly - 14 ounces I live my Dragonfly but it does require pumping, cleaning, unfolding and set up, works better if primed with alcohol, etc. I think the Perfectflow is set down and light. That seemed to be a priority.
butthead	01/18/2016 08:23AM   Perfect Flow Single Burner High heat output, good flame adjustment, easy to use and great price. Uses the heavy steel, high pressure propane canisters. Bottle top mounting so burner sits almost 1 foot off the ground. Should not be used with a wraparound windscreen (overheating the fuel tank). butthead PS; Empty 16oz propane canister weighs 16oz. Empty 8oz isopro canister 4.5oz. Empty 20oz aluminum Sig/MSR fuel bottle 5.5oz. bh
jcavenagh	01/18/2016 09:51AM   Reliability and little fiddling...Svea 123R. It is not as stable with big pots. I am biased because my Svea has never failed in over 35 years of use in many different locations and conditions.
butthead	01/18/2016 10:07AM   If a Perfect Flow single burner works for you, another in same style Primus Classic Trail covers ease of use, adjustability, simplicity, with a bonus of using much lighter (though more expensive), iso-pro canister fuel available in 4/8/16oz sizes. butthead
BobDobbs	01/18/2016 12:59PM   if output control (IE simmer vs full blast) is important to you, and you don't mind the liquid fuel - I have and really like an optimus nova. Not the cheapest/lightest option, but in the long run, the ability to burn cheap and ubiquitous coleman fuel saves some bucks. a lot of models can boil a liter around the 3 minute mark, but not many can do so while at the same time having the ability to simmer at very low temps. this may be TMI, but the wife and I always have so much fuel towards the end of a trip that we allow ourselves the luxury of a hot hobo bath every couple days.
wetcanoedog	01/18/2016 02:07PM   i would think a Peak stove would be your best bet. the built in tank is good for several days of use.i'm a real gas hog making cups of tea and letting the stove burn in my shelter for a few minutes to warm it up.there are no fuel lines to connect and remove. the fold out feet make it tip proof and the burner and the pot stand are wide.heat is spread around and it will cut back to a almost not there simmer or at full blast will boil a pot in a couple minutes. there is one lever for flame control and unless it's cold out a pre heat is not necessary.Coleman fuel is cheap and MSR or Sigg fuel bottles last a life time. the big pot on the left of the photo will sit on the stove with no hassles.i heat wash water in it all the time. after years of hard use in the Q when i did two 2 weeks solos every year i cleaned the stove up and gave it a paint job. i just set it aside a few years ago when i switched to Gaz for a lighter trip. if you can find one of those square pot/case kits to fit the stove get one,get two!! canoe tripping is not mountain climbing so you don't need some real high tech gear to make a meal.
thinblueline	01/18/2016 03:51PM   MSR Windpro II all the way with your criteria. I have one. It is as simple as it gets. No pumping, no mess, good simmer control, and less noise than the Dragonfly. It also includes the bottom and surround reflectors if you want those. The hose assembly swivels, and it includes a little snap on stand to invert the can in order to burn all the fuel or to make it more effective in cold weather. You just can't go wrong with this stove.
billconner	01/18/2016 06:30PM   BTW if you go for the Dragonfly, I highly recommend the dragontamer cap. Works wonders.
buz	01/19/2016 12:03PM   I think you have lots of good choices. I have the perfect flow, it meets your number 1 and 2 wishes perfectly, 3 not so much. Cooking on a tower is not good, especially in the wilderness. After two food spills on a trip, it got banned to car camping/table use only. I bought a nova stove, and love it. Big pot capability, low simmer capability with out buying something additional like the dragontamer, and it is quieter than a dragonfly. Stoves are all tradeoffs to some extent, whatever you pick, figure out the negative tradeoff and make sure it does not affect you.
CrookedPaddler1	01/19/2016 12:59PM   quote awbrown: "Thinking outside the box... 1. Reliable.......Trangia model 25 2. Hassle free.....Trangia model 25 3. Stable....you know what I'm going to recommend. Trangia stove systems meet your specifications and your wish list to a tee. Link " The first time i used a trangia stove was winter camping at Sommer's Canoe Base with some staff from Finland. They used the trangia all the time as it is easily the most reliable winter stove on the market. What struck me is that we need to change the way we prepare camp to use it effectively. The would start it right away, adding snow/water as they set up the rest of camp. By the time we were ready to eat, the water was ready. My tendency is to go in order...1)tarp 2)tent......till dinner. Then i want the water boiling immediatly. However if you start with the stove, then the water is ready when the rest of camp is done. I use my trangia almost exclusively for late fall / winter trips
lindylair	01/19/2016 08:04PM   If you decide to go with a backpacking type stove, consider the Primus Classic Trail stove mentioned above. At $19.95 it is without a doubt the best value out there. Simple, rugged but effective, you don't need to baby it. I am sure you can get more BTU's but it is plenty hot, wide flame pattern so less hot spots and very reliable. An idea that we tried with great success on several occasions, bring two because they are so cheap. When you need to cook that big meal lay a cheap non stick griddle across the two of them and cook(fish, pancakes, scrambled eggs, etc.) for the whole group. It's stability alone is good, with two of them under a griddle it is very good.
deerhuntertyler	01/19/2016 08:54PM   This site never fails to impress me with the caliber of the other members and their advice, Thanks to everyone who gave such great responses. I'm going to visit the store this weekend and take a hard look at the MSR windpro II, that's what sounds most appealing thus far. Thanks everyone for all the advice. Tyler.
deerhuntertyler	01/19/2016 08:54PM   This site never fails to impress me with the caliber of the other members and their advice, Thanks to everyone who gave such great responses. I'm going to visit the store this weekend and take a hard look at the MSR windpro II, that's what sounds most appealing thus far. Thanks everyone for all the advice. Tyler.
Nozzelnut	01/18/2016 05:05PM   Several good options posted. I have a single burner Coleman Powerpack propane stove; similar burner to the Perfectflow. Runs on 1lb propane canisters, is stable and flat, can use regular home sized pots and pans, and has been essentially bulletproof for me. Not too many working parts to fail; just the flame adjustment. On the downside, it doesn't fold any smaller and weighs a modest amount, but less than the suitcase stove. Of course it's not my only stove, but for larger groups of folks it works well.
OldFingers57	01/22/2016 05:35PM   quote butthead: ""12 oz containers" Sure those aren't 8 ounce 226 gram? Or is the empty canister weight added . 4, 8, and 16 ounce are common, never saw a 12 ounce. butthead" It's whatever the Medium sized ones are. I have never seen the large 16 ounce ones any place before. Sorry I thought they were 12 oz but are actually 8oz.
mdgrose	01/22/2016 04:38PM   I use a Primus Omnifuel. Can burn liquid, gas canister, diesel, you name it. Very stable and good simmering. Only downside is that it is kind of loud like most of the stoves of this style are but you can buy damper caps to quiet them down.
schweady	01/23/2016 09:59AM   quote OldFingers57: "quote butthead: ""12 oz containers" Sure those aren't 8 ounce 226 gram? Or is the empty canister weight added . 4, 8, and 16 ounce are common, never saw a 12 ounce. butthead" It's whatever the Medium sized ones are. I have never seen the large 16 ounce ones any place before. Sorry I thought they were 12 oz but are actually 8oz. " Short? Tall? Grande? Venti? Trenta?...
OldFingers57	01/22/2016 09:42AM   quote thegreatnorthwoods: "Slightly off topic, but I am wondering how many fuel canisters you bring along per trip? 2 people 8 days, boiling water, cooking breakfast and dinner. Thank you. " 3 of the 12 oz containers for 2 people. Although I use the gas sparingly and don't run it full blast.
thegreatnorthwoods	01/21/2016 09:31PM   Slightly off topic, but I am wondering how many fuel canisters you bring along per trip? 2 people 8 days, boiling water, cooking breakfast and dinner. Thank you.
butthead	01/22/2016 09:53AM   "12 oz containers" Sure those aren't 8 ounce 226 gram? Or is the empty canister weight added . 4, 8, and 16 ounce are common, never saw a 12 ounce. butthead
deerhuntertyler	01/17/2016 07:09PM   I have done a bunch of searching and reading on this topic lately and have found a TON of different opinions on it. So I apologize for stirring the pot on a topic that may already have been beaten to death. But, here it goes. I want a stove that is, in order of my priorities, 1. Reliable/dependable. Defiantly the biggest priority. 2. Hassle free, limited fiddling with adjustments and parts 3. Stable, able to hold big pots of water and fry fish/make pancakes on without worrying about tipping over. 4. weight. This is where I'm willing to sacrifice a little, I don't need an ultra light backpacking style stove, I just want to get lighter then the Coleman suitcase stove or similar propane stoves I've used on previous trips. I'm willing to spend good money on a good stove, I'm just looking for help weeding through the options. Thanks all in advance for the help.
TwoByGreenCanoe	01/17/2016 07:40PM   For 1 to 2 people= Msr Windpro For bigger groups= Msr Dragonfly Both will hold a 10 or 12 inch fry pan and both are extremely reliable.
OldFingers57	01/17/2016 07:32PM   Well if you are going to have large pots and pans on the stove then you want to look at a stove with a large burner head to it, as a small burner head will just cause a hot spot in the fry pan. So that eliminates a few stoves. Next you want something that does not require a lot of fiddling with, so I would look at remote canister stoves. I would look at something like the MSR Windpro or Windpro II, Whisperlite Universal, Snowpeak Bi-Pod stove, or Optimus Vega stove.
awbrown	01/17/2016 07:47PM   Thinking outside the box... 1. Reliable.......Trangia model 25 2. Hassle free.....Trangia model 25 3. Stable....you know what I'm going to recommend. Trangia stove systems meet your specifications and your wish list to a tee. Link
mgraber	01/17/2016 08:22PM   MSR Windpro2. Fully adjustable, good with large pans,good in any weather,super reliable, clean and comes with a reflector and adjustable wind screen that makes a HUGE difference in fuel consumption and works even with large frying pans.If you want simple and trouble free I would stay away from liquid fuel. I will NEVER go back!
billconner	01/17/2016 08:25PM   It seems you want a lot of heat and stability. Have to think the Coleman Perfectflow 1 would be a good fit.
OldFingers57	01/17/2016 08:41PM   quote billconner: "It seems you want a lot of heat and stability. Have to think the Coleman Perfectflow 1 would be a good fit." Except he said he had a suitcase style stove and wanted something lighter then it.
butthead	01/17/2016 08:47PM   I have my own preferences, remote fuel tank, white gas, MSR. In that order. Collection that has examples each type from MSR. A discontinued still found on ebay Rapidfire canister stove (not propane, lighter iso-pro canister fuel), matches your wish list well, assuming a single burner. If you do not mind noise, white gas, and priming, a Dragonfly is excellent. Probably the sturdiest and largest diameter pot support on a backpacking stove. Zen Stoves is a good resource on this topic. butthead
butthead	01/17/2016 09:16PM   quote mgraber: "MSR Windpro2. Fully adjustable, good with large pans,good in any weather,super reliable, clean and comes with a reflector and adjustable wind screen that makes a HUGE difference in fuel consumption and works even with large frying pans.If you want simple and trouble free I would stay away from liquid fuel. I will NEVER go back!" Interesting, been using a Windpro, Pocket Rocket, and a variety of Coleman Powermax stoves converted to canisters. Going back to liquid fuel partly because of reliability. To each their own, as they say. butthead
cowdoc	01/17/2016 09:33PM   Dragonfly
Frenchy19	01/17/2016 09:44PM   quote cowdoc: "Dragonfly" +1
KevinL	01/17/2016 10:08PM   quote Frenchy19: "quote cowdoc: "Dragonfly" +1" +2
ECpizza	01/17/2016 10:12PM   IMO, dragonfly is the most stable. It is also (IMO) the best "all around" stove. I have several others I use in different situations, but the dragonfly is the go to.
butthead	01/18/2016 08:53AM   Size comparison. Back left right Dragonfly, PocketRocket, 11oz MSR fuel bottle with Dragonfly Pump, 8oz IsoPro canister, 11oz MSR bottle with regular Duraseal pump. Front left to right, Old style WindPro, Simmerlite, Rapidfire, Whisperlite. Pot support diameters, Dragonfly 7 3/4in, Whisperlite 6 1/2in, Windpro 5 1/2in. butthead
ducks	01/18/2016 10:42AM   When I bought my stove 10 years ago I had the exact same criteria as you. Based on the reviews and recommendations on this site I went with the Windpro and have been very happy with it.
BigCurrent	01/18/2016 05:15PM   quote billconner: "According to Zen Stoves propane is tops in BTUs per pound of fuel though only by 6-7% over white gas and just a percent or so over isobutane. I'd guess that the containers for isobutane or white gas for the equal amount of BTUs do weigh a little less than the container for propane, but ounces, not pound less. As I stated I'll likely never change from my Dragonfly and white gas (especially since I own two Dragonflys and six 22 ounce fuel bottles :) ) but for the priorities stated, hard to think the Perfectflow 1 isn't a good choice. It would be fun to see a test of the Perfectflow 1 with it's base and a full pot of water versus say the Primus Classic Trail on a butane canister with same 3 or 4 liter pot of water and see which is more stable. With same priorities this would probably influence my decision. I just have different priorities than the OP." No stove will compete with a remote canister stove when it comes to stability. The perfectflow and clasic trail stoves are fine and function well, but they are far from stable unless you find a perfectly flat piece of ground to cook on, and even then the center of gravity is so high (especially with the perfectflow), one slight bump and your meal/water/etc will be laying on the ground.
andym	01/17/2016 10:48PM   I think the decision between MSP windpro or dragonfly comes down to how the individual user feels about liquid fuel versus canisters. One reason I switched to the windpro is not that I found the dragonfly hard to use with the pump and priming but that people I went with might not be good at it. With the windpro everyone learns quickly and can do it on their own.
keth0601	01/18/2016 08:36AM   I would also recommend the windpro 2. I switched entirely to cannisters and sold my white fuel gear a couple years ago and don't miss it. It's hard to beat the windpro for simplicity, ease of use, and reliability.
BigCurrent	01/18/2016 09:09AM   Remote canister stoves sound like they would be the best fit for what you're looking for. They're efficient and much more stable than the Perfectflow stoves or the pocket rockets that mount on top of an iso bottle. Whether you go liquid or canister gas is really a personal preference. Both work great. If you want to save a little time just go with canisters. If you want to save money in the long run and reduce your waste, then go with the liquid gas. In addition to the MSR models, it is worth checking out other manufacturers like Optimus and Brunton. I have the Optimus Vega and am very pleased with it. Packs down very small, very stable, and the flame adjustment is superior to the MSR stoves in my opinion.
dpreiner21	01/18/2016 09:37AM   quote butthead: " Perfect Flow Single Burner High heat output, good flame adjustment, easy to use and great price. " This is what I use and love it. Super portable and great at boiling water fast... Also excellent at keeping a good oil temperature for frying fish. 1 propane bottle lasts for a 6 day trip for 5 guys if used properly... I always bring a backup tank just in case.
Grouseguy1	01/18/2016 10:34AM   I love my Sno Peak stove. No idea how much it cost as my father gave it to me when he got to the point he physically couldn't go any more.
billconner	01/18/2016 11:35AM   According to Zen Stoves propane is tops in BTUs per pound of fuel though only by 6-7% over white gas and just a percent or so over isobutane. I'd guess that the containers for isobutane or white gas for the equal amount of BTUs do weigh a little less than the container for propane, but ounces, not pound less. As I stated I'll likely never change from my Dragonfly and white gas (especially since I own two Dragonflys and six 22 ounce fuel bottles :) ) but for the priorities stated, hard to think the Perfectflow 1 isn't a good choice. It would be fun to see a test of the Perfectflow 1 with it's base and a full pot of water versus say the Primus Classic Trail on a butane canister with same 3 or 4 liter pot of water and see which is more stable. With same priorities this would probably influence my decision. I just have different priorities than the OP.
Bogwalker	01/18/2016 12:06PM   quote KevinL: "quote Frenchy19: "quote cowdoc: "Dragonfly" +1" +2" Dragonfly for me for cooking-for boiling water for dehydrated meal trips or morning coffee I use jetboil.
bobbernumber3	01/18/2016 12:49PM   Never much discussion on this stove. Heavy? Yes. Reliable/dependable, hassle-free, stable? Yes.
NotLight	01/19/2016 09:38PM   quote deerhuntertyler: "This site never fails to impress me with the caliber of the other members and their advice, Thanks to everyone who gave such great responses. I'm going to visit the store this weekend and take a hard look at the MSR windpro II, that's what sounds most appealing thus far. Thanks everyone for all the advice. Tyler." Darn, too late! We never got a chance to recommend a backup stove.
NotLight	01/20/2016 06:13AM   quote ECpizza: "quote NotLight: " Darn, too late! We never got a chance to recommend a backup stove. " Trouble maker. But I'll bite... My backup stove is a tomato juice can converted into a stick stove. I have made some popcan stoves for backpacking, and will probably attempt a 'mini' stick stove, but only for fire ban areas... Otherwise a good ol fire will serve as a backup stove." If I have more than isobutane canister packed already, I'll almost always bring my litemax along as a backup, or for making coffee, because it's so small. I've also used the snowpeak gigapower with the built in piezo lighter - if you are really lazy, those are nice, because you don't even have to fumble around for matches when you want to cook something.
butthead	01/19/2016 09:58PM   YC mentioned her WindPro clogging. Cleaned mine with CLR, rinsed well and blew it out with compressed air. Worked like new after (colorful first burn, but settled right down). butthead
PineKnot	01/20/2016 07:53AM   Lots of good advice and experience on this post. I've had/used most of the stoves mentioned, and my priorities are almost identical to the OP. The stove I use most often now is the Primus Classic. I bring two. The canisters are a bit of a pain to pack (as are most fuels), but they're easy to use, don't spill, and when used up I simply crush them flat with a rock and stash them in the bottom of the pack. Oh, and the canisters allow me to use my Jetboil Flash for morning coffee and boiling water for freeze-dried meals. I have yet to find any stove that has "great" stability on a trip....they all seem to require TLC when cooking with big pots or larger skillets....
NotLight	01/20/2016 08:15AM   quote PineKnot: "Lots of good advice and experience on this post. I've had/used most of the stoves mentioned, and my priorities are almost identical to the OP. The stove I use most often now is the Primus Classic. I bring two. The canisters are a bit of a pain to pack (as are most fuels), but they're easy to use, don't spill, and when used up I simply crush them flat with a rock and stash them in the bottom of the pack. Oh, and the canisters allow me to use my Jetboil Flash for morning coffee and boiling water for freeze-dried meals. I have yet to find any stove that has "great" stability on a trip....they all seem to require TLC when cooking with big pots or larger skillets.... " Seems like you can't go wrong with those for the $. If you need absolute stability, many/most of the 3-legged stoves (like the windpro) can be attached to a stove board (1ftx1ftx3/16" plywood).
butthead	01/20/2016 08:36AM   "when used up I simply crush them flat with a rock and stash them in the bottom of the pack" Scared the crap out of a trip partner doing that! Didn't see me puncture the canister, to air out an hour earlier, thought it would blow up! butthead
jeroldharter	01/19/2016 11:24PM   LittlBug. not exactly what you asked but mostly fits the criteria.
ECpizza	01/19/2016 11:46PM   quote NotLight: " Darn, too late! We never got a chance to recommend a backup stove. " Trouble maker. But I'll bite... My backup stove is a tomato juice can converted into a stick stove. I have made some popcan stoves for backpacking, and will probably attempt a 'mini' stick stove, but only for fire ban areas... Otherwise a good ol fire will serve as a backup stove.
mc2mens	01/20/2016 03:45PM   MSR Windpro and MSR Pocket Rocket are my go to stoves. Windpro is stable, good simmering, easy to use and clean. Pocket Rocket boils liquids fast.