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10/18/2016 11:49AM |
quote Mocha: "i should have included this info in my initial post, the tarps would be used in a commercial outfitting setting, lots of use by different users, wear and tear..."
Assuming you want to give your client the best possible experience, I would go with square/rectangular tarps. Much more versatile and more likely to be familiar with your guests. And in my opinion they are superior performance wise (unless using a hammock cover). Check out the Campmor Nylon tarps, about the same price as Kelty. Are they as quality as CCS? No, but if price is a concern, these will do the trick.
Campmor Nylon Tarps
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10/18/2016 01:20PM |
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10/18/2016 04:10PM |
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10/18/2016 06:08PM |
only a 15x15 with 5 lines, adults and kids running all over, not mine but I helped set it up.The Kelty Noahs of all sizes are good tarps, but big flat tarps do not need a ridge line, multiple guylines, or a lot of anchors, just a bit of imagination.
butthead
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10/18/2016 07:52PM |
quote butthead: "Mark, tell me how it is faster to set up a Noahs tarp by anchoring 4 corners versus a flat tarp with 4 anchor points.
This is a FLAT 10x12 tarp anchored at just 4 corners, no ridgeline. I could as easily used a single stake at the 2 low points and poles instead of trees..
butthead
"
One difference is that in the picture you show, although you are using 4 anchor points, you are using 6 guy lines to keep it all tight. With a cat cut tarp only 4 lines are needed to pitch a tight tarp. Also, although you CAN pitch a square tarp on the diagonal without a ridge line as you show, you are putting a lot of strain AGAINST the seam of the tarp. Cat tarps are different, as I'm sure you know, because the main seam is on the diagonal, and is intended to take the strain with no ridge line needed.
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10/19/2016 06:30AM |
quote butthead: "Yeh big tarps are difficult,
The Kelty Noahs of all sizes are good tarps, but big flat tarps do not need a ridge line, multiple guylines, or a lot of anchors, just a bit of imagination.
butthead"
I agree with ya bh on all accounts. I currently own 3 Kelly tarps and 2 ccs tarps. Setup can be identical if you rig as a diamond with a ridge line. I prefer not to rig my square tarps this way unless it's pouring rain as we pull into camp. The less coverage issue with cat cut tarp is real and significant. That said I still use my Kelty Noah tarps for truck camping and my 1.1 oz. nylon tarps for backcountry camping. All good and functional.
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10/18/2016 08:10PM |
I've used the Kelty Noah's Tarps for years. They're a great value IMHO. Fast and easy to rig too. Love the 9x9 for solo tripping or for small group trips, (i.e., three or less). The 9x9 also makes for a great hammock rain fly.
Hans Solo
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10/19/2016 10:31AM |
quote HansSolo: "
I've used the Kelty Noah's Tarps for years. They're a great value IMHO. Fast and easy to rig too. Love the 9x9 for solo tripping or for small group trips, (i.e., three or less). The 9x9 also makes for a great hammock rain fly.
Hans Solo
One of the last times I used mine was on the Wisconsin River. I recall a rainstorm hit us and I had a nice shelter in a couple minutes. I'm ashamed to say my old Kelty has remained on the back porch since I got my CCS. Thanks for the nice pictures. The Sawyer Shockwave and those Wisconsin River pictures are certainly "Eye candy!"
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10/19/2016 11:34AM |
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10/20/2016 10:52AM |
Noahs tarps, different sizes of Kelty tarps, and an old school Petzoldt tarp.
Then I bought my first CCS tarp; followed shortly thereafter by a second (larger) one.
Sold the others; much prefer my 2 CCS. Yes, they are more expensive, but I view them
as a long term investment. If properly cared for, they will last years & years. Cost per
year over long term is minimal.
Different strokes for different folks.
I have little concern for other's choices of gear.
Use what works for you.
BOB
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10/12/2016 04:05PM |
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10/12/2016 04:30PM |
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10/12/2016 04:38PM |
Yup, used for years, strong, lots of loops, inexpensive, easy to find and buy. A bit heavy and larger pack size than nylon, catenary cut is less versatile, less covered ground area compared to flat tarp.
Flat nylon tarps. Various pitching configurations, available in different material weights, easier to pitch low to the ground. Often more expensive, large variety of quality construction and materials.
Now I have only flat tarps sold the Noah's 12x12 a while ago.
butthead
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10/12/2016 05:14PM |
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10/12/2016 07:17PM |
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10/12/2016 06:15PM |
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10/12/2016 07:32PM |
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10/12/2016 08:26PM |
quote butthead: "
Yup, used for years, strong, lots of loops, inexpensive, easy to find and buy. A bit heavy and larger pack size than nylon, catenary cut is less versatile, less covered ground area compared to flat tarp.
Flat nylon tarps. Various pitching configurations, available in different material weights, easier to pitch low to the ground. Often more expensive, large variety of quality construction and materials.
Now I have only flat tarps sold the Noah's 12x12 a while ago.
butthead
"
Yip +1 we have used them for years.
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10/13/2016 06:07AM |
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10/13/2016 10:18AM |
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10/13/2016 12:25PM |
quote hooky: "I have a 9, 12 and a 16. Here's the 16 set up on a windy, rainy day on cherokee.
that's the 16? that looks kinda small. would you say it would work for a party of 4 or 6 but not much larger party size?
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10/13/2016 12:49PM |
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10/16/2016 10:00AM |
We have used them on backpack trips, canoe trips, backyard campouts, and goofing in the woods on the side of the yard.
They are a bit heavy. The cut provides less coverage, but that doesn't matter over the hammock. Quick and simple. Price is attractive for kid's gear.
They seem durable. They are only on their third year, which doesn't sound like long, but they are for kids who handle the the tarps on their own, which makes it equivalent to 8,765,028,756,145 years.
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10/16/2016 10:27AM |
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10/16/2016 11:49AM |
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10/16/2016 12:16PM |
quote Mocha: "i should have included this info in my initial post, the tarps would be used in a commercial outfitting setting, lots of use by different users, wear and tear..."
"strong, lots of loops, inexpensive," best way to setup, is easy to explain/demonstrate.
butthead
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10/17/2016 06:07PM |
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10/18/2016 01:26PM |
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10/18/2016 01:41PM |
hooky, people have preferences based on personal use and experience. I have owned and used both. the scalloped edges of a cat cut tarp mean less coverage. A Noahs Tarp or other cat cut styles really only set up "tight" in one way.
Either will work, but that doesn't alter a users preference. Kind of like the difference between a Jet Boil stove set, and a MSR Simmerlite. One is more versatile and works well with a variety of cookware, the other may set up faster (for a casual user), but is limited in the pots or cooking style.
butthead
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10/18/2016 02:32PM |
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10/13/2016 06:07AM |
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10/13/2016 07:13PM |
quote user0317: "My paddling partner has one (the 12ft I believe) and we used it this Spring. It seemed durable and plenty of tie-offs to make it easy to hang. The 12ft was big enough to keep us dry over the fire pit, but it seems like you would get better coverage without the catenary cut.
I'd agree with this assessment. I use it for larger groups when I take them out so that I can get everyone's gear under one tarp. If we organize it well, we can sit under it to cook as well if it rains. A standard rectangular tarp might work better but I still would recommend this Kelty tarp for ease of setup, weight (less than 2lbs) and coverage.
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10/13/2016 11:30AM |
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10/13/2016 09:18PM |
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10/13/2016 09:37PM |
Used to have a 12'x12'. In theory that measurement seemed big, but in practice that tarp felt small. And the catenary cut really limited how I could set it up. Felt like wind and rain always could find a way in.
Switched to a 10x10 flat tarp from CCS. Will never go back to a catenary tarp UNLESS I get a hammock.
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10/13/2016 09:43PM |
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10/14/2016 12:14PM |
quote Mocha: "quote hooky: "I have a 9, 12 and a 16. Here's the 16 set up on a windy, rainy day on cherokee.
that's the 16? that looks kinda small. would you say it would work for a party of 4 or 6 but not much larger party size?"
Just depends how you set it up. In that photo, 4 folks could have sat in there without much crowding, but it was set low to the wind that was whipping through so the only headroom was along the ridgeline. I think the most I've had under it is 7 people in chairs (8 if you count a toddler). It was comfortable with room to spare and everyone stayed dry. 16' x 16' is a big footprint and that picture doesn't really show that, since it's low and the back side is folded against itself so the fire grate wasn't close to it.
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10/14/2016 12:41PM |
quote CanoeKev: "Kelty Noah's tarps are great tarps, both the 12' and 16' models. We prefer these cat cut tarps to rectangular ones because they are much faster to pitch, even though they are somewhat less versatile in terms of configurations. If you enjoy playing with different tarp pitching configurations, get a rectangular tarp. If you just want a tarp to go up fast and keep you dry, get a Kelty. Great value too."
Kelty Noahs are good tarps, no argument intended. Except the "they are much faster to pitch". A flat tarp setup in the flying diamond configuration sets up the same as a Kelty Noas Tarp, opposite points anchored to trees, other opposite points staked to the ground. My 10x12 Equinox set up that way.
butthead
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10/15/2016 08:28AM |
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10/15/2016 10:29AM |
My questions are these: How stable are these tarps when using the collapsible poles? What size of tarp would you buy for 7-8 men to sit under with their chairs?
I am leaning to a large 16 or 20 size tarp as a gathering place, and a smaller one to put over the kitchen/cooking area. Open to suggestions.
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10/15/2016 10:32AM |
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10/15/2016 10:41AM |
I was looking at the Kelty as it appears far simpler to put up, doesn't need any trees, which means it can go to the center of camp. Curious how big of a tarp would be needed for larger (7-8 men) groups to sit and eat under. (Prompted by four straight days of rain in our last trip).
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10/18/2016 02:38PM |
Rectangular tarps we have used typically are using six to 8 tie outs. And what happens is ineveitably people walk into ropes, particularly if the tarp is in the center of camp.
The cat style is four tie outs. I have gravitated to a little less rain coverage for a lot fewer ropes to run in to for the group. This is really true when we bring the young guys up who are always running.
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10/18/2016 03:01PM |
This is a FLAT 10x12 tarp anchored at just 4 corners, no ridgeline. I could as easily used a single stake at the 2 low points and poles instead of trees.
.butthead
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10/18/2016 04:22PM |
I concur that on the smaller sized tarps there is really no difference.
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10/18/2016 05:36PM |
quote Mocha: "i should have included this info in my initial post, the tarps would be used in a commercial outfitting setting, lots of use by different users, wear and tear..."
The Kelty is heavy enough to take the abuse expected in an outfitting situation. And the cost is reasonable.