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BWPaddler
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I used to sleep without a tent at all. Just put a sleeping bag on top of a tarp on the ground and sleep under the stars. I've done that in Virginia, West Virginia, Maryland, Georgia, North Dakota, Kansas, Nevada, and California. Maybe more.
Not one mouse in all of those nights or States. A couple raccoons (GA) and one bear (NV), but no mice or snakes or other small critters.
The only mouse has been in a totally walled and floored tent in the bwca. When someone left the zipper slightly open - maybe an inch or an inch and a half. A small mouse found her way in and disrupted the night. Go figure.
After the bear incident I did start using tents with walls and floors even though I know it makes no sense and provides little protection. Not going back to the stars any time soon except via a mesh skylight.
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KevinL
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Still using the Bear Paw bathtub liners when I go to the ground when the Sherpa is along.
Should be up north hang'n right now on a solo, but ....... Oh well next year.
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Jaywalker
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I'm toying with several possible designs for making a floorless tent and am fine with most aspects except one - MICE! I keep thinking of a night on my last trip on LLC where I had what seemed like a "mouse stampede" over my tent fly, and then inside over the netting. I had no food in my tent.
So for those of you who use any sort of floorless tepees, Leans, tarp tents, or other - have you had troubles with mice? Anything that can be done, other than the obvious keep a clean camp?
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nctry
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The lean has that extra piece around the bottom. But, mice can be a problem. Like bears they get habitual. It would be as much who was there before you as how you keep your camp. Maybe select less used sites. They wouldn't bother me too much unless there was a lot of them.
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Frenchy19
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Looking forward to hearing from those who have used a floor less tent as I plan on doing so with my Lean next year. That said, I kinda like mice...
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GraniteCliffs
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Nope, somehow I like the safety and security of an all enclosed tent. I know it isn't but am comfortable living with my delusion that my tent is somehow as strong and reliable as my house.
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butthead
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Over several years of using a Lean1+ only 3 times I am aware of. I do not use a floor inside nor a full ground cover. but a 30x80 inch tub of sil-nylon under my s-bag.
butthead
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nctry
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The thing I like about the lean is being able to have an area you can walk in floor less and not worry about your boots. There are so many good things about going floorless. Even the fact that the mice you so fear, can exit the tent without chewing a hole. :) I would definitely go with a smaller floor inside. I like being able to bring my chair in there out of the bugs. Things to avoid is pitching on thick moss or places that harbor bugs, mainly mosquitoes. I've heard horror stories on this. I live in my old hunting shack. I'm building a house and will miss the old cabin. But the mice have places to nest and such. Last fall they were relentless. I trapped over a hundred in three months. I had one that illuded my traps. He got bolder and bolder. He'd be everywhere. Fast as can be. I saw him climb electrical cords. He really was fun to watch. I had to take precautions for keeping the mice out of fry pans and cups and such. Finally I came home from the fall wing night and there he was just caught by his snout. I thought aha! So I figured I'd "finish him off" quick and be done with him. No, as I squeezed down on the trap he squirted out and ran around boucing of walls happy as a lark. I woke up in the night to him in my bed with me. I think he thought I saved him. He was out most when I was up in the morning. But finally he was caught... by one foot, but caught. I tossed him out and my daughters dog played with him until he died. Kind of miss that one. Haha!
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bwcasolo
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quote nctry: "The thing I like about the lean is being able to have an area you can walk in floor less and not worry about your boots. There are so many good things about going floorless. Even the fact that the mice you so fear, can exit the tent without chewing a hole. :) I would definitely go with a smaller floor inside. I like being able to bring my chair in there out of the bugs. Things to avoid is pitching on thick moss or places that harbor bugs, mainly mosquitoes. I've heard horror stories on this. I live in my old hunting shack. I'm building a house and will miss the old cabin. But the mice have places to nest and such. Last fall they were relentless. I trapped over a hundred in three months. I had one that illuded my traps. He got bolder and bolder. He'd be everywhere. Fast as can be. I saw him climb electrical cords. He really was fun to watch. I had to take precautions for keeping the mice out of fry pans and cups and such. Finally I came home from the fall wing night and there he was just caught by his snout. I thought aha! So I figured I'd "finish him off" quick and be done with him. No, as I squeezed down on the trap he squirted out and ran around boucing of walls happy as a lark. I woke up in the night to him in my bed with me. I think he thought I saved him. He was out most when I was up in the morning. But finally he was caught... by one foot, but caught. I tossed him out and my daughters dog played with him until he died. Kind of miss that one. Haha!"
that was quite a story.
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gymcoachdon
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someone has to mention it...
If you use a hammock, you can go floorless without the worries of mice running over you all night.
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butthead
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quote Frenchy19: "Looking forward to hearing from those who have used a floor less tent as I plan on doing so with my Lean next year. That said, I kinda like mice..."
Frenchy, I love ta help folks keep the economy going so a suggestion. bathtub floor. Works great!
 That is not a BearPaw floor but a GoLite (no longer made).
butthead
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ozarkpaddler
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I love the design and concept and Butthead's system is perfect IMHO? Mice, I can deal with. Problem is, I couldn't use it here on the river. I share the habitat with some nasty critters like copperheads, rattlesnakes and cottonmouths. I've seen ALL in river campsites over the years, but it seems like copperheads are prone to coming to the fire the most? And since I lost my best friend last year to a rattlesnake and a guy died from a snakebite on the Current a couple years ago, I've become even more vigilant of pit vipers. I wouldn't sleep a wink on the river without a built in floor.
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boonie
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I've never had a problem with them in my Lean, but I've never had a problem with them otherwise either. I rarely even see one in camp. Like ozarkpaddler, I'd be reluctant to use it as my shelter here in "pit viper" country. Mice usually run when you squeal anyway . . . :).
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pswith5
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Probably shouldn't watch the movie "willard" before you go.
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HowardSprague
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Does anyone bring a cat?
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IceColdGold
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Two years ago, I used my CCS 12.5X12.5 as a tarp shelter on two trips. I put my tent foot print on the ground, then my pad/sleeping bag, and hung a Coleman bug net over the top. I tucked the bug net in around my pad, which in theory should keep mice off of me. Like Ben said, it's great to walk in and out with your boots on, or sit in your chair under the shelter.
The first night was a little freaky. I kept hearing what I thought was a small critter walking in the leaves outside my shelter, but as I laid there, I realized that I only heard the rustling when the wind would blow a bit, so I convinced myself that it was just the bottom of the tarp dragging across the leaves a bit so I could fall asleep. Now I always wear ear plugs.
Last year, I slept in a hammock under my tarp on two trips. It was nice to be up off the ground. No issues other than the pine beetle chewing its way out of the pine log next to me, and the rabbit stampede in the early morning. Once again, ear plugs.
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awbrown
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Made the mistake of setting my Lean+ up over a chipmunk hole one time. He and I shared the site for a couple of days. He came and went as he pleased. In the mornings, I would lay quietly in my sleeping bag watching him cavorting around, going in and out of the tent.
I pay a lot more attention to my chosen tent pad since then.
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builditbetter22
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quote gymcoachdon: "someone has to mention it...
If you use a hammock, you can go floorless without the worries of mice running over you all night."
+1
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butthead
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quote builditbetter22: "quote gymcoachdon: "someone has to mention it...
If you use a hammock, you can go floorless without the worries of mice running over you all night."
+1"
Yup, someone needs to mention.... Have you ever watched mice climb ropes? They are quite good at it.
butthead
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ozarkpaddler
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quote pswith5: "Probably shouldn't watch the movie "willard" before you go."
Or the sequel "Ben" (LOL)!
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butthead
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quote ockycamper: "Isn't a floorless tent a tarp?"
NO. Unless you concede a hammock is a tarp used upside down. Lots of framed tents do not have floors.
butthead
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ockycamper
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But you can shape a tarp into exactly the same shape as a floorless tent. And all true camping hammocks I have seen ( and used) have under quilts/insulation, mosquito netting and rain flies.
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butthead
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Yup, I can bend a tarp to shape a tent and a hammock. Gonna need to add stuff to both to make them camp-able.
What did a "true camping hammock" start as?
butthead
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KevinL
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I have used the Bear Paw bathtub since I got my Lean. I can't say that I have ever had a mouse but have had an occasional toad or frog come on inside.
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Alan Gage
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I was originally going to go with just a small footprint under my sleeping pad but got the full floor with my Lean 1 and am glad I did. In dry weather with little threat of rain I wouldn't bother putting it down and just slept on the ground. But it rained on 18 of the last 20 days of my trip (30 out of 42 in total) and rarely did I have a site where I was sleeping on bare ground. I was usually on top of moss that had soaked up that water like a sponge. It was nice to have a full size floor where I could spread out my gear and keep it from getting wetter. It was nice for the dog and I to spread out on as well. The extra bulk/weight was negligible and I figured in a pinch I could rig it as a tarp.
Never had mice issues but I also wasn't sleeping at campsites that saw much, if any, use.
Alan
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ockycamper
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Isn't a floorless tent a tarp?
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muddyfeet
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quote butthead: "Pre-made patterns can be found online and at, Quest Outfitters. Among other places.
butthead "
Thanks for that link. The tarptent shelter they have looks ideal. Benefits of a tarp, bathtub floor, and insect barrier. I enjoy sewing gear and now have something else to consider...
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SevenofNine
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Some benefits are that you can walk into a portion of your shelter with muddy feet and not worry about it. Same goes for if you have a dog along on a trip. All or a portion of the floor can be floor less.
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FirstTimer2019
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Just got back from Yellowstone. We awoke pre-dawn to what sounded like a cow breathing heavily right outside our tent. Then something big yanked on the guy line from the rain fly and brushed alongside our tent walking away (again, BIG). There were 3 bison napping next to our campsite when we got up the next morning, and bison prints in the mud around our tent. One had tripped on our guy line. Jeeeeez...
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Jaywalker
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jillpine: "Can I be obtuse for a moment or two? Why floor-less?
I understand if a bug-free tarp-type shelter but why sleep this way?
What are the advantages? I can think of a few disadvantages along the lines of illnesses associated with mice(lepto and hanta) ticks (and associated tick borne illnesses) and fungal (blasto) so I'm not sure why the trend away from a floor or hammock?"
In addition to what 7of9 mentioned, this tent will have space and ventilation for a small wood burning stove as I intend to use it primarily in the shoulder seasons. Having a nice fire in the stove to dry out all your gear in the evenings is just a wonderful experience. And with two dogs coming with me, having space to get them dried off is essential.
Glad to know mice don't seem to be a big issue. It's now 2 1/2 years after I started this thread and the tent is not done yet! I did work on it last week, and plan for it to have its debut in October! It's going to be glorious.
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butthead
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Even though I sold my Lean+ (like it still but generally pack even smaller now), I always thought of "floorless" as a bit of a misnomer. I am sure most who use a shelter without a floor are covering their sleeping area with a ground-cloth so it's more semi-floorless. I used a Golite Shangrila 1 bathtub ground-cover or a tarp remnant. Bear Paw makes bathtub floors to order for sewing challenged folks like me.
To me the idea of no built in floor is a benefit, in weight carried, pack size, utility especially in wet conditions, and allows me to cook under shelter when needed as in the winter. I bought my Lean 1+ about 12 years ago, used it a lot along with additional tarp camps and tents designed to utilize a "fast-pitch". I bugs bothered me a solo bugnet was used, with the Lean I had no bug problems and 3 mice, who snuck in while the zippered door was open (my fault).
I will confess to a chipmunk but it was chased into my lean (under the door), by Baxter a Border Collie/Springer mix. THAT was fun to watch!
butthead
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BWPaddler
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butthead: "Even though I sold my Lean+ (like it still but generally pack even smaller now), I always thought of "floorless" as a bit of a misnomer. I am sure most who use a shelter without a floor are covering their sleeping area with a ground-cloth so it's more semi-floorless. I used a Golite Shangrila 1 bathtub ground-cover or a tarp remnant. Bear Paw makes bathtub floors to order for sewing challenged folks like me.
To me the idea of no built in floor is a benefit, in weight carried, pack size, utility especially in wet conditions, and allows me to cook under shelter when needed as in the winter. I bought my Lean 1+ about 12 years ago, used it a lot along with additional tarp camps and tents designed to utilize a "fast-pitch". I bugs bothered me a solo bugnet was used, with the Lean I had no bug problems and 3 mice, who snuck in while the zippered door was open (my fault).
I will confess to a chipmunk but it was chased into my lean (under the door), by Baxter a Border Collie/Springer mix. THAT was fun to watch!
butthead"
thanks for the chuckle. The thought of a border collie and a chipmunk in a Lean, well I'm still smiling!!
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jillpine
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Taking a break from packing, which includes a hammock for the first time. ;)
Thank you for helping enlighten me. I've learned a lot. Enjoyed this thread very much!
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tomo
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Now that I'm a proud owner of a Lean 2, I've been thinking about this question. For our recent family trip, the Lean 2 was our hangout spot in inclement/buggy weather, but I'm thinking for a solo trip it would be redundant/excessive to bring a tent and the lean 2.
I'd like to use the Lean 2 as tent and tarp, but am sadly hung-up on mice and other critters....so I was thinking something along these lines might be a good compromise:
https://luxe-hiking-gear.com/products/1-person-minipeak-pyramid-inner-tent
https://www.pariaoutdoorproducts.com/products/breeze-mesh-bivy
Yes, it's more weight, more cost, and more hassle, but something like this could be set up inside the lean, providing floorless hangout space and a floored and enclosed sleeping area.
Anyhow, that's what I'm pondering at the moment. Or, I could work to get over my aversion to mice and embrace the floorless camping life....
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jillpine
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Can I be obtuse for a moment or two? Why floor-less?
I understand if a bug-free tarp-type shelter but why sleep this way?
What are the advantages? I can think of a few disadvantages along the lines of illnesses associated with mice(lepto and hanta) ticks (and associated tick borne illnesses) and fungal (blasto) so I'm not sure why the trend away from a floor or hammock?
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HappyHuskies
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Except during peak bug season I use a Hexamid Solo without floor or mosquito netting for solo trips. I've only had one mouse traipse over me in the night and that one did not stay long. Not saying I won't have problems at some campsite in the future, but I've been using this tent since ~2012 and have not had a problem yet. I use a piece of polycro for a ground sheet and have not missed not having a floor.
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boonie
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You can buy a floor for it, but it's not attached (see website). Or one of the bathtub floors (or mesh inner tents) butthead mentions above. Or a bivy. It just gives more space at less weight. I'm much more concerned with ticks, etc. when I'm out wandering in the wilderness during the day.
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PortageKeeper
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Been floorless many times but only had one issue with mice. Was hiking around Angleworm in cold, wet weather and found that as soon as I set up the shelter, the mice were wanting to move in. I was a little exhausted and after several attempts at chasing them out, I just let them have the run of the place and went to sleep. They were only trying to stay dry themselves and really didn't cause any problems. I trust the mice in the wilderness much more than I would those around people and their garbage and sewage.
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Jaywalker
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I appreciate all the responses. I too couldn't imagine using a floorless tent in territory with venomous serpents. And while I find hammocks intriguing, I'll be traveling with one (if not two) dogs and won't leave on the ground below. We'll need to be enclosed, and I'm just wondering which shape above and about how to manage flooring (large bathtub, partial flat, full unattached) and as stated on top - are mice (or other crawly things) an issue! It's funny I'm having such a challenge mentally moving away from a fully enclosed tent!
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butthead
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Another member has sewn his ow nylon version of a baker campfire tent, Wetcanoedog. Might give you some pattern tips. Many MYOG folks here who may have suggestions, MYOG forum.
Pre-made patterns can be found online and at, Quest Outfitters. Among other places.
butthead
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KevinL
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Here is a little review of the Bear Paw Bathtub floor. I had mine made a little larger than stock. It does stay up more than what shows in the pictures. This was the first time that I had used it - in the back yard, before going on a trip.
When I go with my son, we use two of these inside the lean.
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boonie
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I have the full floor with my Lean1+ and when I don't want a full floor, I can just fold it over, fold in half, fold up a corner, etc.
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