Boundary Waters Quetico Forum :: Trip Planning Forum :: What the hell happened today?
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illini79ps |
straighthairedcurly: "Outfitters have to go through the same process as the rest of us. No special treatment for them to get permits for their booked customers. This year it definitely paid to know which entry points and dates are most in demand. I had my list laid out in order of difficulty to get so i could prioritize. Got them all." You are spot on regarding outfitters. One of my groups is DM and our well known outfitter has made it clear since 2019 change that we have to get our own permits. |
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egknuti |
tumblehome: "I just checked recreation.gov and there are a crap ton of permits available all summer. There are a few popular entries that all almost booked all summer. |
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Bjelde |
So, what's going on? It feels like outfitters snatching them up? Anyone with knowledge on this? |
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gravelroad |
You just got a preview of BWCAW 2022. |
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heavycanoe |
We are not using any more permits than we otherwise would just booked early and got the last permit on the day of our preferred entry. |
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OMGitsKa |
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TreeBear |
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tumblehome |
2 things- 1. This might force people to Try new entry points. Hey, that might be fun! 2. The consumption of permits early in the year proves to me that the permit reduction was a good idea and that the trend of increased use is continuing into this season. Therefore, the base-camping issue and entry lake traffic jams will continue. The permit reduction will help but only by 13% so expect more chaos! Tom |
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straighthairedcurly |
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andym |
The outfitters not only go through the same system but can't book permits unless they have a client because they need the trip leader's name and info. I suspect they are quite busy just filling the orders they have without modifying things. We'll see how things go over the next few months but I suspect I didn't really need to book today and could have done it in March like usual and been happy. |
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WonderMonkey |
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Gaidin53 |
I had a work meeting this morning and couldn’t not be at it. My outfitter got my permits for me which is awesome. My trips are July and 2 in August so that probably helps a little when mine are being pulled. Permits are not transferable. Outfitters can’t hoard them. They have to put a primary permit holder on the permit. It’s not like they can use a bogus name and then transfer it. I suppose they could pull a bunch of permits they think the would need. They would have to then cancel them at some point and then wait to pull the permit again for the party they had going. My understanding is it doesn’t just instantly appear. It will come back as being available within the next two days after being cancelled. So basically it’s not a sure thing if they are playing that game. Little Garbo went in the first hour if not less for the whole season. Crazy! Ryan |
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Zulu |
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Voyager |
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MN_Lindsey |
With more people turning to outdoor adventure as something to do many realized how AWESOME the BWCA is compared to state park campgrounds etc. That's my thoughts. But yes, also lots fewer permits. |
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Bjelde |
I didn't know how it worked with the outfitters, so I appreciate being educated on that. Still though, four months worth of Clearwater permits gone on Day 1? Unbelievable! |
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Marley |
We usually take 3-4 trips to Voyaguers and a couple to the BWCA each year. It's difficult planning your summer weekends in November & January not knowing what else will come up. |
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Mocha |
Bjelde: "Thanks for the responses. I assumed that the reduction in permits and increase in overall and BWCA specific outdoor recreation would lead to a busy Permit Day. But, I didn't think the obvious factors could fully explain what we witnessed. Are u sure u were looking at paddle permits and not day use or overnite motor? It does seem odd that all permits would be gone no w for paddle |
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WhiteWolf |
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OMGitsKa |
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A1t2o |
thegildedgopher: That seems kind of lame that you'd have to pay twice. Then again, it might generate some much-needed revenue for the USFS." The service charge on recreation.gov goes to the company hosting the site, not the USFS. I logged on yesterday around 3 and picked up the last permit that I could find for Clearwater EP on June 13th. I wasn't planning on getting a permit just yet but when I saw that none were available, I figured that waiting was not a great option. I'll have to check again to see if more are available now, but the timing ended up working out pretty well so I'll probably just leave it as is. |
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Bjelde |
Mocha: Yup. I checked overnight paddle and overnight motor. Same result. I checked again this morning, and interestingly, a couple had popped back up as being available. |
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PineKnot |
Hoping you all have better weather and zero fires like we've seen the past couple seasons.... |
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Speckled |
1. Increased use caused by covid restrictions over the last two years and the great resignation has a much larger pool of trippers. 2. Fewer permits and news of fewer permits. 3. Struggles obtaining permits the last two years later in the season. This is the first year I've booked on opening day, I was on at 9, booked my two permits and had no issues, went back and looked later in the day and they were all sold out...makes me worried about campsite availability. Not only will we need to be first in line to get the permit, but i'm hitting the EP at first light to give us the best opportunity to find an open site. |
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thegildedgopher |
OMGitsKa: "Maybe they should not offer refunds for cancellations that may or may not help?" I've thought about this as well. The only unfortunate sticking point is, say I couldn't get the date/EP for August that I wanted yesterday, so I booked a different, less-desirable EP. I log back on in July and notice that somebody's cancelled and now my preferred EP is available on that same date. Surrendering my first permit would count as a "cancellation" since there is no mechanism for "exchanging." That seems kind of lame that you'd have to pay twice. Then again, it might generate some much-needed revenue for the USFS. It gets complicated, but I'd be favor of one full refund per customer per year, with any additional cancellations non-refundable. Also in favor of an annual limit of permits per person. Bjelde: "Mocha: Cancellations happening that fast might point to multiple people from the same group all trying to book permits at once in hopes that at least one of them got the desired ep/date. I think/hope people might be overreacting to the madness of day 1, and we could potentially see a lot more availability over the course of the summer as plans solidify and groups surrender redundant permits. |