Boundary Waters Quetico Forum :: Trip Planning Forum :: Any tips for a dude torn between FD/dehydrated food offerings?
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tbro16 |
I appreciate your breakdown. Last year I began to go down the "minimalist" road which has got me eating primarily ramen and Peak Refuels. No complaints here. I'd ditch the big fish dinners nightly if it were just me, but the other guys in my group sure enjoy it. I'm trying to figure out a better plan for breakfast this year, something better than bags of bars and what not. Was thinking about individually bagging granola, dried fruit, and dried milk. Seems like it'd be a good breakfast but concerned about the amount of fiber. Can't say I look forward to a latrine visit any more than what is required! |
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A1t2o |
The biggest issue I get stuck on is minimum order costs. This goes for both FD and dehydrated, but it becomes a real pain when I have to plan meals around the ingredients. I.E. If I would only use half a bag of corn in one meal, I'm likely to skip it or plan a different meal to cut down on the number of ingredients I need to order. Something as simple as mixed veggies in fried rice quickly becomes very expensive and unreasonable unless you already have the ingredients left over from other meals. I never order over the minimum amount to get free shipping either... |
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ockycamper |
Finally the group made the decision that we go to BWCA for the fishing and exploring, not to eat better then we do at home. So now everyone is on their own for breakfasts (usually oatmeal or granola), and we have a group dinner. We use only food like Camp Chow which can be cooked quickly and has only one packet to store as trash, going in the Bearvaults as they empty out. We are now on the water shortly after daylight, and don't come back until right at dark or later (we cook under a group tarp with Luci Lights). Quite honestly, the reason we didn't get many fish was we were never out until 10 and were back by 3-4. The fish had to work really hard for our group to catch them! |
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LindenTree |
Harmony House backpacking kit. |
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iCallitMaize |
JohnGalt: "There are a few folks I need to reply to yet, lots of quality advice provided, though as a numbers/data guy I just finished compiling data on all of the vendors mentioned in this thread which offer prepared meals & I wanted to share it with you all. Note that the Camp Chow pricing data is taking into account the 25% off discount which is valid through the 15th, divide prices by 0.75 for post-deal cost. There is a 15% off first time customer discount for Peak Refuel, so I included this discount as an additional row in the 'Overview'. I considered including the mass per serving though decided against it as I don't care as much about mass being a canoeist, calories per gram can be left to the gram counters to compile haha. All of the vendors offer free shipping on all or on orders over $75-200, depending on the vendor. I used Costco to price the MH meals (bought in 6x#10 cans or box of 24ct pouches for the asian meals). If data was only available for single servings, I doubled the values, & vice-versa for double serving only offerings. MH asian meals, Peak Refuel, & several Backpacker's Pantry meals are sold only in two serving pouches. Awesome..thank you for this. |
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ProStaffSteve |
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sns |
Our current suppliers: Trailtopia Packitgourmet Pinnacle Foods Bushka's Kitchen Good To-Go *The Cumin Club (have tried at home - plan to take afield in 2023) Most have been excellent; can only think of one or two specific meals that we did not like. No experience yet, but will try soon: RightOnTrek Stowaway Gourmet Enertia Trail Foods Gastro Gnome |
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JohnGalt |
An update relevant to this thread: I decided to go with Hawk Vittles. I sent them an email last evening & had a reply + follow-up phone call within minutes, great response time. I spoke with the new owner, Hawk's son & heir, & learned a bit about their company. At the moment, they are a two person operation & they prepare their meals to order (I'm guessing they may have some inventory when partial batches are sold, they cook eight servings per batch, though bulk storage of ingredients/finished goods isn't their business model & they may eat the excess portions themselves rather than storing them, I did not inquire about this). I'm excited to try out their products & I plan to create video reviews of each meal to share with the community. Next year, I may explore creating my own meals, though for this year I'm glad to know that Hawk has me covered & I can focus on other things (like my outfitter just confirming that I can store a shotgun with them - John Galt will be doing some grouse & duck hunting this fall!). |
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NEIowapaddler |
All that said, I'm tempted to try a couple of those Camp Chow meals while they're on sale just for the heck of it. Like a couple other people said, I personally don't get too caught up in the cost of camping meals. Even if you're buying MH or other pricey options, the cost of the food for a couple camping trips is still less than most people would spend on eating out a few times over the course of the same amount of time you'll be camping. Unless you're eating McGarbage, you're gonna spend more than $8-10 a meal when you eat out. |
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ducks |
JohnGalt: "ducks: "I love Camp Chow. All of the ones that I’ve had have been just pouring boiling water into the bag and letting it sit. I haven’t had any that needed to be simmered. I love the convenience of eating it right out of the bag and not having any clean up. I have found that I don’t need to add the amount of water listed on the bag. For example I use 1/2 the water for their chili and 3/4 of the water for the couscous. I have never been hungry after eating a single serving Camp Chow. In fact, I’ve forced down the last bit to avoid having food garbage left over. That being said, I’m not a big eater and I usually share a meal at restaurants with my wife so I don’t over eat. You definitely want to start with less water than suggested and add some after you try it if needed. My favorites are all of the different chili options, Especially on the early May trips and October trips I’ve done when it’s cold weather and the different alfredo couscous options. The one I didn’t like from camp chow was one of the spaghetti flavored ones. |
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iCallitMaize |
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tigag |
FYI: The discount basically makes the shipping free. |
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NotLight |
Dehydrated is more calorie dense, and the commercial dehydrated meals tend to come with less packaging. Its a better option for longer trips. Some people will do things like make spaghetti in meat sauce and dehydrate it in a home dehydrator. The issue there is food safety in regards to the meat and dairy. I don't do this for that reason, but you could try it. I mostly dehydrate fruits and veggies, and mix them with dry pasta and rice and commercially packaged meats/dairy. The most space efficient, is to bulk pack dried and dehydrated foods, and mix them on the trail. Its a bit more work, but it is the closest you can get to eating "real food". I would try a combination of all three. Get a few MH breakfast skillets, and leave them in the original packaging. Get some commercial dehydrated meals. Go to the grocery store and get some foil pack chicken and salmon, a box of minute rice (minute rice premium if you can find it), some quick cook couscous, some bisquick, some dried fruits and nuts, spices, and practice making some DIY meals at home. |
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TomT |
I was tipped off that store bought pot pies (I like Marie Calendar brand best) dehydrate very easily and rehydrate to taste the same. Also Chili. Who doesn't love a good chili? Jon and Xander rehydrate homeade chili and put on a tortilla with chopped fresh green peppers and shredded cheese. Wrap it up for a chili burrito. Jim Bairds wife Tory made a real thanksgiving dinner and deydrated the turkey, mashed potatoes and stuffing. Add water and heat up for a delicious "stew". He also had cranberries but I forget if they were store bought freeze dried or they dehydrated their own. Anyway, you can do a lot of meals in bulk this way and it's cheaper than paying over $10 a meal for store bought freeze dried. Also - precooked bacon is great to bring along. Just warm it up in the skillet first. |
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merlyn |
Two quick hacks: Dehydrate and store the cooked pasta (spaghetti for instance) separately from the sauce , they rehydrate at different rates. Put sharp items like pasta in a bread type bag, cut the bag at the level of the food and then in a vacuum bag, keeps the sharps from breaking through the vacuum sealed bag. * I prefer the term "financially challenged) rather than "cheap" When do we get a trip report? |
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uqme2 |
merlyn: I prefer the term frugal. |
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JohnGalt |
Note that Next Mile Meals are keto, so higher protein & less carbs, which is inherently more expensive. Imho, these meals could be combined with a carb & split between two individuals if keto doesn't matter. Many Camp Chow meals are vegetarian/vegan, even if they include e.g. 'pork' in the product name. Outdoor Herbivore, as the name implies, offers only non-meat products. Also, it should be noted that some of these companies are small businesses &, imho, higher prices should be expected due to reduced economies of scale &, likely, better quality ingredients. |
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bombinbrian |
We have, on occasion, takes some freeze dried veggies for a couple of meals. |
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NotLight |
Mountain house generally includes freeze dried meat in its entrees, which might explain both the low calories and high cost. Almonds are a tenth the price per calorie as any of the above options. Pack smaller, and are higher in protein. Raisins are also a tenth the price, pack smaller, and are a great source of potassium. Oatmeal, minute rice, golden couscous are all boil water only and in a similar price/calorie/packing density category, and they can be just as tasty and convenient as commercial options with a bit of creativity. (and you can buy most of these at the gas station in Tofte or Ely, plus peanut M&Ms and beef jerky). Things like MH breakfast skillet or one of their chicken entrees are a nice complement, to break the monotony and provide other protein sources. |
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Northwoodsman |
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Duckman |
Lately I’ve just gone to “that aisle” at the grocery store. The just add water and boil options and the foil pack meat options have expanded so much in the regular grocery store that you can beat the mountain house type prices. |
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billconner |
rdgbwca: "Sticker shock? How about a 2x increase in the price of a staple of my trips? Buy canned and dehydrate. Baked beans and refried beans dehydrate wonderfully easy and rehydrate easily. Just keep track of portions. |
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joeandali |
My question - How accurate are the serving sizes? Is one serving enough for one person? Are two servings too much for one person? I don't want to take weight we don't need but also want to make sure we are satisfied with the meals. I know if can vary depending on the person. I have a group of two; me (51yo) and my nephew (30yo). |
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ockycamper |
On the other hand, Camp Chow 2 servings were plenty for two people. Same with one serving options. We no longer use Mountain House as it is way more expensive by the time you by two serving packages for one person vs Camp Chow. |
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boonie |
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ducks |
I’m going to place a bigger order than normal with the 25% off right now. |
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Northwoodsman |
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AlexanderSupertramp |
Breakfasts and dinners I go dehydrated, but I figure one day for breakfast I do pancakes so that saves a bit of money there since pancake mix is cheap and I always have syrup. And I try to plan for one dinner to be something other than dehydrated, but I never bank on catching fish for dinner because I've learned the hard way that you can get skunked for a whole trip and I dont want to starve. My biggest dilemma is dog food! A week of his food is 6-7lbs. I'm looking to go freeze dried for it this year but they dont make his brand like that, so it's risky to switch him for the trip and its also absurdly expensive. Still working that out! |
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JohnGalt |
I'm completing meal prep for this upcoming season & my easy decision of 'just rebuy what was eaten last year' has morphed into a decision as to whether I should go with Mountain House meals again or if I should go another route. For reference, last year I repackaged MH #6 cans into individual two serving vacuum sealed bags for my dinner entrees & this was just about the right amount of food for my meal, never any leftovers & I was fairly satisfied though I could have probably eaten more if there was a bit more in the bag (I bridged the gap with snacks or dehydrated pork if I was 'going to bed hungry'). The meals were palatable &, while not gourmet, they were good enough for this part-time forest dwelling vagabond. Prices for these meals are now ~$6.33-7.50 per meal of two serving sizes. I recently was made aware by one of the great folks here that Camp Chow is running a 25% off sale on their products through the 15th & that led me to pause & consider switching to them. When reading up on Camp Chow on the forums, I came across Hawk Vittles & they have caught my eye as well. Any input on which route you'd recommend or other offerings I should consider? One of the major pros for me with MH meals is that they are freeze dried, so meal prep involves pouring boiling water into the vacuum bag & waiting 10 minutes. From what I've gleened, the Camp Chow is mostly dehydrated ingredients & that simmering may be required. If so, this would likely remove them from my short-list regardless of potential cost savings/quality improvement. Is my assumption/conclusion correct, do the Camp Chow meals require dirtying a pot? (I only boil water in my pots to keep them clean of food residue & reduce post-meal clean-up.) I'm also concerned that their 'one serving' may not be a true satisfying meal for an adult male in the wilderness. If it takes two servings, then I'm looking at $13 per meal, $9.75 after the discount, so no savings only increased cost & potentially more prep/cleanup work, albiet for likely better quality food. On the other hand, Hawk Vittles appears to be freeze-dried, which checks that box for meal prep procedure. For single servings, most of their entrees are $7.50-8.50 per serving, with some options at $9. This is about 20% more than the MH meals, though I'm willing to pay for 'premium' to fill up my tank if it is worth the extra cost & to support a smaller business. Looking at the calories per serving, it looks to be that these single servings have more calories than two servings of the MH meals & that Hawk's claim of "When we say double serving, we mean it satisfies two people with big appetites." may be legitimate, to my pleasant surprise. Am I caught up in wishfull thinking or have those of you who've tried Hawk Vittles found that the single serving portions are adequate? Another pro, imho, of Hawk Vittles is it appears their products are properly sealed (not vacuum packed, though that is reasonable considering risks of sharp food items piercing the bag under vacuum...that MH beef stroganoff & lasagne is sharp haha). This means no repackaging of ~170 meals, which is awesome even if they may pack a bit less efficiently, & it saves me $ on LEM vacuum bags. The Camp Chow appears (from viewing products on BW Catalog) to be packaged in a 'zip-top' pouch, which does not meet my standards for scent proofing/storage & would require repackaging. As I type this, I feel like the Hawk Vittles is a no-brainer move though I'm always hesitant to jump at things which seem too good to be true. If Hawk Vittles is as good as it looks to be, are there any 'top choices' that I should consider adding to my menu or any to shy away from? Thank you for reading & I greatly appreciate any feedback you may have. Cheers! PS I love the name Hawk Vittles (Camp Chow is good too). Vittles is not an oft used word these days & I'm a sucker for old timey lingo. My commander also used to call me Hawkeye, so I feel a connection to them through the force haha. |
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Northwoodsman |
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LetsGoFishing |
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JohnGalt |
ducks: "I love Camp Chow. All of the ones that I’ve had have been just pouring boiling water into the bag and letting it sit. I haven’t had any that needed to be simmered. I love the convenience of eating it right out of the bag and not having any clean up. I have found that I don’t need to add the amount of water listed on the bag. For example I use 1/2 the water for their chili and 3/4 of the water for the couscous. That deal is very enticing indeed - I have a week to scat or get off the thunderbox. It is good to hear that their meals can be 'pouch prepped' with just boiling water. In your experience, have you found that a single serving is sufficient for an adult's dinner meal? From my cursory comparison, it seemed many of the entrees had similar calorie content as two MH servings, though some were less, closer to one MH serving. Thank you for providing your input! |
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JohnGalt |
Northwoodsman: "There are several fans of Hawk Vittles on here. I'm a fan of Mountain House and Pack-It Gourmet myself. As you pointed out freeze dried is brought back to life using boiling water (or sometimes room temperature or even cold water), dehydrated often takes some simmering (but not always). I find that FD uses much less fuel overall and is easier to get back to it's original form. There are plenty of options to purchase the packaging and ingredients to put together your own FD meals." I'll need to check out Pack-It Gourmet, thank you for the lead! "There are plenty of options to purchase the packaging and ingredients to put together your own FD meals." Have you (or anyone reading this that cares to chime in) pursued this route or compared prices for 'self-assembled' vs 'pre-assembled'? If this route is more cost effective, I may have to consider pursuing it. |
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moray |
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schweady |
I generally look the other way when seeing the higher costs for these prepared meal pouches. It's not like I'm out there all year or anything. Gotta add: nothing beats MH Breakfast Skillet. |
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boonie |
We've noticed that food prices in general are up considerably, not just camp food. Some observations: Food needs and preferences are pretty individual. You may need more food than I do. There are meals from each company that I like and ones I'm not eating again. You may not like the ones I do and vice versa. Both the freeze-dried and dehydrated meals can be rehydrated in the bag and eaten with only the spoon to clean (just keep lickin'). I never dirty anything else but the coffee mug (a quick rinse) I have not tried Camp Chow but many like them. I have not eaten any Mountain House meals in years. One of the companies I liked recently closed the business last year. I've been using a few meals (Cashew Curry and Bacon Baked Beans are favorites) from Hawk Vittles for years now and generally find them satisfactory in the single serving size and tasty, but calorie counts vary among the meals. YMMV Another one I've used is Outdoor Herbivore . I find their single serving size is generally on the larger size for such companies. They also sell quite a few bulk items that you could use to construct your own meals. Among others I like Lickety Split Lentils (very filling), Blackened Quinoa, and Lemongrass Thai Curry. You can always take items to bulk up meals. Think caloric density . . . Best advice is to try a few of each and then make decisions. |
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lindylair |
I have tried Backpackers Pantry too and some of their meals are pretty good. Very similar to MH, at least gives you a different variety to choose from. I enjoy cooking and would love to be more creative up there but don't have a dehydrator and don't bring a cooler. Maybe one of these days that will happen. But to this point MH, BP and even Peak have been sufficient for us. Quick, easy eating, easy cleanup, on to the next thing. Agree with Schweady that MH Breakfast skillet is one of the best. We usually bring 2 or 3 of them, spoon them into tortillas for a delightful breakfast. |
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straighthairedcurly |
2) In terms of portion size, I recommend going based on the calories you need. All companies tend to vary in terms of each meal's caloric value. I aim for for 300-400 calories for dinner, but that is very light compared to what the average young guy is going to need (not a lot of advantages to being a middle aged female, but not needing to carry much food on a trip is definitely one!). Camp Chow does tend toward fewer calories in a pouch than many others, but I would check out the individual meals. 3) To save $$$, I highly recommend making whatever you can, yourself. You can dry foods in an oven on low temp or pickup a food dehydrator. |
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RetiredDave |
Happy eating! Dave |
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scottiebaldwin |
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scotttimm |
JohnGalt: "Northwoodsman: "There are several fans of Hawk Vittles on here. I'm a fan of Mountain House and Pack-It Gourmet myself. As you pointed out freeze dried is brought back to life using boiling water (or sometimes room temperature or even cold water), dehydrated often takes some simmering (but not always). I find that FD uses much less fuel overall and is easier to get back to it's original form. There are plenty of options to purchase the packaging and ingredients to put together your own FD meals." I do this almost exclusively for our trips each summer. I like North Bay Trading. I buy large bags of freeze dried peas, peppers, corn, broccoli, kale and fruit. I buy large boxes of minute rice and dehydrated mashed potatoes. Lighthouse brand freeze dried spices in Walmart - you can find garlic, red onion, basil, ginger, all sorts of good stuff. Then there are spice packs for things like tacos, lime-ginger chicken, etc that can be used as well. I dehydrate refried beans, cooked noodles, pre-made spaghetti, etc. Then I spend a few weeks packaging meals into mylar bags with O2 packets and seal them up with a curling iron. WAY WAY cheaper. Cost comes down to a couple bucks per meal as opposed to $7-10, and when feeding 8-9 people each trip for six days each trip...that cost adds up! |
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Frenchy19 |
I pretty much go with whatever is offered for the best price @ Sierra Trading Post; I have found some decent deals there over the years-but not so great in the past 3 years. |
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pastorjsackett |
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rdgbwca |
Refried beans purchased in August 2020 for $25.88 Todays price? $49.99 |
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andym |
Taking an excessive amount of trail mix can also cover a multitude of inaccurate serving sizes. Leftovers (besides dried soup and trail mix) is definitely a no-no. |
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scottiebaldwin |
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