Boundary Waters Quetico Forum :: Trip Planning Forum :: How much time should I allocate for portaging?
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YetiJedi |
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ockycamper |
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billconner |
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schweady |
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fishonfishoff |
Our group is in our early 60's and not in "prime" shape. FISHONFISHOFF |
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boonie |
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NEIowapaddler |
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lindylair |
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HayRiverDrifter |
I agree with efficient portaging. Number one thing: No loose items. Second, pack things based on who will carry it. Have one lighter pack for the person carrying the canoe if needed. The second person will have a pack and just a couple things to carry in hand. For me, nothing hits the ground except my 5 gal bucket when I am solo. In a group, everyone has 1 Pack and 1 or 2 buckets per canoe. Fishing poles get tied into the canoe Single Portaging: Step out in the water, help each other shoulder packs. Strap in paddles or grab them. One person grabs the bucket, and the other shoulders the canoe and you go. At the other end, set the canoe in the water, take packs off and set them in the boat, put buckets in and go. Double Portaging: set things on shore that are not part of the first load, making sure you set things off to the side and out of the way so others coming across the portage have room. Shoulder packs for the first load, and shoulder the canoe and go. On the other end, set all equipment out of the way. Head back for the second trip. |
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boonie |
ockycamper: "Our group is also mainly in their 60's and primarily does fishing and taking pics. We have 19 going up this year (divided into 3 groups). I polled the guys on doing multiple portage trips and going "further in" vs single portage to a basecamp. When it got down to basecamp=more gear and food, it was a unanimous vote to do Seagull, Alpine, Red Rock or Sag and basecamp. " That's why you don't care about it, ocky, you're not going anywhere or doing anything much as far as portaging, paddling, repeating. I don't fish, I don't basecamp, I travel, therefore I want to know if my route is doable without pushing, rushing, etc. If you were doing that, you might find that information useful, maybe even necessary. Yes, I'm older than you guys, yes I talk to people I meet, yes I have a watch (horror of horrors), sometimes I look at it because I have uses for it, but not because I'm pushing on a strict schedule. I purposely plan with plenty of leeway. But, back to the OP. You'll need to sort these issues out to whatever suits you and your goals. |
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Frenchy19 |
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NEIowapaddler |
bobbernumber3: "a2lackey: "... don't know how much time to allocate to portaging..." +1. For me, trying to push through the BWCA on a tight schedule that requires me to maintain a certain traveling speed would ruin the experience. But YMMV. |
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bobbernumber3 |
Frenchy19: "I would not worry about allocating time for portaging. As this is your first trip and it is a short one, enjoy and learn from the experience. " Great advice! |
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a2lackey |
lindylair: "I might be wrong but I think her questions was more about how much time the entire portage will take, including unload, portage and reload. If someone could comment on approximate time for a 230 rod and a 100 rod portage, including unload and reload I think that will be more helpful to her. If I am wrong, I apologize." Yes, that's what I was getting at. Thank you! Looking for total portage time. |
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EddyTurn |
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andym |
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bobbernumber3 |
a2lackey: "... don't know how much time to allocate to portaging..." Look at the bigger picture... you may be overthinking your travel details. BWCA tripping is a good time to be off the clock. If your destination is 10 miles away with a couple portages, figure on 2 miles per hour and 5 hours. Allocate some time for sightseeing on the portage and blueberry picking, approximately 4.6 minutes per portage. |
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ockycamper |
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bobbernumber3 |
Frenchy19: "bobbernumber3: "A bear on the portage or at the landing can add unallocated time." Q. Three or four times in 40 trips. But not all the time. Only one moose problem. |
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Hockhocking |
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timatkn |
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timatkn |
ockycamper: "As others have said. . . why do people try to push so hard on portages? We unload, move the gear to the side, take a break, and take our time carrying gear through while talking to those we meet. We leave our clocks, electronics and cell phones. . . why is there such a push to just "get through" portages single portage as fast as possible?" Are we reading the same thread? I could have missed it, but I am not reading anything on here indicating anyone is trying to "push" or go as fast as possible. Even if they were...hey it's 'Merica, so what :) Why would someone do that though? 1. Because they can--it's fun to push your limits, it's how we grow and learn as human beings. 2. They might be training or working towards the Border Challenge. 3. Maybe they are on a loop and they got wind bound for 2 days and now need to get out to get back to work, kids, loved ones. 4. Maybe there was an injury and they need to get help fast. 5. Maybe a loved one is ill and they are the primary caregiver for them and they finally got 4 days to get away from it all and they want to maximize the experience by getting in deep. 6. For single portaging I never rushed but I can tell you why we did it--it was just easier. Why would I portage twice (technically 3x when you double) when it was no big deal for me to portage once? No rush, it wasn't hard... I could go on...lots of reasons... With that said I am more reading of paddlers trying to be efficient and accurately judge how far they should or can travel each day. When you do a loop it's important to have an understanding of realistic timelines. Especially when wind/weather or injuries could make you pivot on the go and totally re-plan your entire trip while you are in the middle of it. It's more planning than pushing. T |
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bobbernumber3 |
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OldGuide2 |
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NEIowapaddler |
Aldy1: "Portage length divided by 10 is the math I use. Your 230-rod portage should take around 23 minutes. This is assuming a single portage. " That seems overly ambitious for many people. Almost 3/4 of a mile over terrain that can be quite rough at times in 23 minutes while carrying up to 100 pounds? I'm not disputing the fact that you can do that, but I'm not sure a majority of people would be able to, or would want to if they could. |
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bobbernumber3 |
NEIowapaddler: "Aldy1: "Portage length divided by 10 is the math I use. Your 230-rod portage should take around 23 minutes. This is assuming a single portage. " There are as many variables as canoeists... but as a rule of thumb, it would be in the ballpark. |
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Tomcat |
NEIowapaddler: "I think Lindy is right, but realistically, all portaging is, is backpacking between paddles. I mean, carrying the canoe is a little different, but not that much, time-wise. So I would just time yourself walking with a fully loaded pack over terrain similar in both length and difficulty to that which you'll encounter on the portages in question, add maybe 5 minutes to each end for loading and unloading, and you should be pretty close to how long it'll take you to single-portage. " +1 |
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gravelroad |
There are occasions when there is a line of canoes waiting to land at a portage. At the other end of the portage there may be a line of canoes waiting to get into the water. I’ve seen a jam coming off Isabella that looked like the fleet waiting to cross the Delaware and stick it to the Hessians. YMMV, and it will depend in great part on the route and the time of day. |
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boonie |
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Tomcat |
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a2lackey |
I know it will depend on the portage length and difficulty, but in your experience, how long do you take beaching and gathering your belongings? How much time does it take to get paddling again at the end of each portage? Our longest portage is 230 rods (which is described as hilly and muddy) but most of the others are under 100 rods and described as flat/dry. We are also planning on making each portage in one trip, not doubling back for left gear. Thanks so much for any advice and information you have! |
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andym |
Total time depends on how fast you walk with a load of 40 to 100 lbs with the higher end being whoever is carrying the canoe. |
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Kendis |
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Michwall2 |
1. How much loose stuff you have. 2. Who gets out first - This may sound simple, but it will change depending on the take-out/put-in. How your canoe fits in the portage ends. 3. Who leads down the portage trail. 4. Others encountered. While single portaging seems to be the "goal", you may find that you get tired of sitting in the canoe mile after mile. I like a nice walk in the woods once in a while, too. Build in a little time to grab a snack from the food barrel, pump water, put on sunscreen, put on bug repellent, grab rain gear, etc. There are some portages where you will want to go back. There are scenic spots along falls, beautiful flowers, overlooks, cliffs, etc. for pictures. Then there are the berries - blueberries, raspberries, etc. Being first time trippers, I would strongly suggest that you build in a little time to consult a map before you get in the canoe so that you both know the navigation strategy before you get in the canoe. Sometimes it is easy, and other times much more complicated. e.g. Which shore are you following, which side of an island are you going around, how many peninsulas are there at the end of the lake and which bay is the portage in? The walking itself is about the same as normal walking speed, about 2mph. Although, depending on your carry weight, your speed may vary as you try to single portage. Another caveat to single portaging, it tends to tire myself and my partners much faster. Especially under more weight than you are used to carrying as a backpacker. Tired portagers tend to make mistakes. Be flexible, just because you planned to single portage doesn't mean you have to stick with that strategy. Adjust as you go and how you feel. Try a shorter one double. See how you like it. Welcome to the BWCA and I hope you have a good trip. |
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Tomcat |
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scotttimm |
a2lackey: "My husband and I are planning our first BWCA trip and first ever overnight canoe trip. We are avid backpackers and very fit. We are trying to plan our schedule for our 4 day, 3 night trip and just don't know how much time to allocate to portaging for realistic travel expectations. Along with all the good advice already given - I would recommend paying close attention on day one to how far you go (total) divided by how long it took you to get there (total) each day. This will give you your approximate travel "speed". On day two you will be moving faster, you'll be quicker in transitions as you become familiar with them, and compare your travel speed. This will help you then figure out days 3 and 4, how long it will realistically take you to cover distances in front of you. My son and I, at our best, were moving a total of 3.3mph...and we were hauling ass, single-portaging, traveling super-light, for 12-15 hour days. Our normal, pretty darn-fast pace was 3mph (in good shape, having trained for endurance paddling), and what we usually use to approximate how far we can travel per day. |
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boonie |
a2lackey: "lindylair: "I might be wrong but I think her questions was more about how much time the entire portage will take, including unload, portage and reload. If someone could comment on approximate time for a 230 rod and a 100 rod portage, including unload and reload I think that will be more helpful to her. If I am wrong, I apologize. It's kind of like my favorite question on here - somebody will ask "how long will it take to get to X entering at Y" (a moderately long distance) and replies will vary from 4 hours to 8 hours. Which one is the right answer for you? Depends on the assumptions each makes and how they do/don't apply to you. It's always just a guesstimate calculating your own travel time much less anyone else's. If your guesstimate is never much faster than the average speed you travel, you'll never be far behind. Being far ahead is much less of a problem. Having a realistic but conservative estimate of your time is best but only comes from personal experience. I believe I touched on it in your other thread, but will go one better. I'll review my plans, calculations, and experience from that loop in 2019 and email it to you with some additional explanatory information about what it is based on that will give you a good idea of what you can realistically expect at a minimum. I may send you additional information which may or may not apply. The subject will be "Your BW trip". |
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scotttimm |
ockycamper: "As others have said. . . why do people try to push so hard on portages? We unload, move the gear to the side, take a break, and take our time carrying gear through while talking to those we meet. We leave our clocks, electronics and cell phones. . . why is there such a push to just "get through" portages single portage as fast as possible?" I have two different reasons: if with my son, we're pushing to do 35-40 miles per day, and portages are where time definitely gets eaten up. When with the rest of the family - if someone isn't cracking the whip - we'll spend an hour on each portage, lol. |
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Z4K |
EddyTurn: "I found very little in common between portaging and backpacking. Firstly, loads are very different, even double-carrying. Secondly, weight distribution is totally different - even without a canoe: backpacks and canoe packs are usually of different shape and weight." I disagree in a most friendly way. I still trip with my backpacking pack, I will simply load it a little wider and lower when there's a canoe involved. I imagine the OP plans on doing the same. When I've taken backpacking-experienced friends to the BWCA for their first time, they've done better than most of the group I go with every summer. It's their second trip you have to worry about, after they've started to add gear. My fastest experience with single portaging was with one friend, backpacking packs and a dog who carried the kitchen. Portage transition time was less than one minute at either end after the first couple portages, and we walked 3 mph or so through about anything. We were both much fitter than I am now and we were on a mission to chew through miles. Most of the time I go much slower, perhaps 3 or 4 minutes loading/unloading, 2 mph on the trail and then an extra 10-30 minutes at every third portage or so for a snack, change of socks, water-bottle fill, etc. |
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coffeetalk |
Like others said, minimizing stuff that needs gathering minimizes time spent gathering. Instead of a day pack or loose gear, I keep anything I might need while traveling either on my person (PFD with lots of pockets) or in top pouch of canoe pack (an indispensable feature) where I can just reach the zipper behind me in the boat. All I have to do then is wedge the paddle between hull and seat drop, map in pants pocket, leash the dog to PFD (I keep it on), load up and go. As also mentioned, popular routes can get pretty busy and courtesy demands that you wait for others who may not be as organized as it sounds like you guys are. In an extreme case, I waited once with the rest of a flotilla to access the portage to Hula Lake from the single-file landing on (the aptly-named) Good Lake for at least 40 minutes I'm sure. It looked like the staging area at Omaha Beach. It was a beautiful day to just sit and bob, but it's an illustration of just one of the potential hiccups. |
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chessie |
Load/unload time depends on how you pack (less loose stuff = more efficient), and how putzy you are. Also -- if you aren't wet-footing it, you may spend a bit more time figuring out how to disembark and not ding up the boat. |
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Aldy1 |
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chessie |
Tomcat: "chessie: "10 rods a minute [noteworthy exception of extremely difficult portage]. The ratio 10:1 isn't precise, but it makes the math easy :) I also consider it a safety measure, as in, if I am portaging a lot longer than what ought to be given the stated rods, maybe I am off track. I like to have an idea of where I am on a long portage, and this is one way to know. I think it's good for individuals to estimate their portage time, and paddle time. The info may come in handy at some later date. |
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A1t2o |
If I had to put a number to it, I'd estimate an hour or less per portage, including paddling and breaks, and go from there. This number varies a lot with the size of the lake, but for mid-sized lakes, I'd say it is a good estimate. So a 5 portage travel day is probably going to take about 5 hours. More like 6 if you are going to fish. There are several adjusting factors to consider as well, such as multiple short portages and paddles between lakes and large lakes. With multiple portages, I usually group them into one 'portage' if they are less than 40 rods. A long lake that takes hours to cross must also be counted separately. Looking at the big picture though, it tends to work out. |
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YetiJedi |
beanpole: "I have an absolute nerd answer on this one. I filmed our trips to the boundary waters so I have an almost exact time of arrival at the portage until we pushed off from the other side. I specifically tracked the data from our first trip with 2 canoes (90-95 lbs each), 4 people, about 1 pack each - roughly between 50 - 60 lbs. We double portaged in 2019. In 2020, we had 4 people with the same amount of weight in the packs, but we had 1 canoe @ 42 lbs and 2 solo boats about 30 lbs. I walk faster than my companions, but I can't handle carrying as much weight so I double portaged in 2020 while they single portaged. We were in no rush and we did have a few busy portages where we were waiting for entry. The time it took varied quite a bit. (Column 1 is the length in rods; column 2 is 2019; column 3 is 202) The disparity between the times for the same distances is significant. Do you have any insights into why there is a disparity in the times? Very interesting to see ... |
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beanpole |
Rods 2019 2020 63 30 35 68 38 18 22 43 21 52 55 38 10 29 31 17 36 19 45 37 27 46 62 33 31 43 24 51 46 36 90 79 33 105 26 41 26 24 16 13 37 18 68 54 24 63 44 20 |
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lundojam |
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Aldy1 |
NEIowapaddler: "Aldy1: "Portage length divided by 10 is the math I use. Your 230-rod portage should take around 23 minutes. This is assuming a single portage. " I'm just sharing the calculation our group uses, not saying it's what most people do. The OP said they were fit backpackers, so I don't think this would be too far off. If you tend to take breaks at each end, this calculation would not be very accurate. |
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straighthairedcurly |
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bobbernumber3 |
chessie: "10 rods a minute..." Looks like a good number. 5.16 miles works out to be 2-3/4 hours figuring 10 rods a minute. Actual time was 2-1/4 hours plus load and unload. |
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jayshef |
I travel pretty light, but the unencumbered walk back for the second load is one of my favorite parts of a BW trip. And: While I'm rarely in a hurry unless weather or the hour demand it, I do enjoy the challenge of being efficient about my portages. And: some days, especially day trips from camp, it can be fun to try to move as quickly as possible through a portage in one trip. Oh, and: don't forget there are no signs marking the portages. Most of the time it is pretty clear where the landing is. But sometimes you spend time looking -- and sometimes it is unclear enough that people start landing in the wrong place enough that it starts looking like a real portage. |
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Speckled |
I know it seems simple, but it's worked for us. |
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bobbernumber3 |
Speckled: "On travel days I typically allocate all of my non paddling time to portaging. On camp days, I allocate none of my time to portaging. ...You think like me. |
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beanpole |
YetiJedi: "beanpole: "I have an absolute nerd answer on this one. I filmed our trips to the boundary waters so I have an almost exact time of arrival at the portage until we pushed off from the other side. I specifically tracked the data from our first trip with 2 canoes (90-95 lbs each), 4 people, about 1 pack each - roughly between 50 - 60 lbs. We double portaged in 2019. In 2020, we had 4 people with the same amount of weight in the packs, but we had 1 canoe @ 42 lbs and 2 solo boats about 30 lbs. I walk faster than my companions, but I can't handle carrying as much weight so I double portaged in 2020 while they single portaged. We were in no rush and we did have a few busy portages where we were waiting for entry. The time it took varied quite a bit. (Column 1 is the length in rods; column 2 is 2019; column 3 is 202) There was no intent to rush on portages. 2019 had rain almost every day. 2020 had no rain. There were quite a few other paddlers on the portages near the entry and exit - I would definitely say that affected the first and last 4 portages. That certainly added to time. There were a few portages where we sat and rested and at least 2 portages that we saw cool insects and delayed our time. |
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IndyCanoe |
Aldy1: "Portage length divided by 10 is the math I use. Your 230-rod portage should take around 23 minutes. This is assuming a single portage. " I learned that same calculation from this forum before our first trip and love it. it is an quick calculation and so much easier to translate in my mind vs rods. It's not a perfect calculation but I find in most cases it is within a few minutes. We keep almost everything stowed on travel days so assuming we don't stop for snacks or water filtering we are usually around the 5 minute mark on each end for unloading/loading |
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prizes14 |
So on a 100 rod double portage it would take 10 minutes over the first trip, maybe 7 back empty and another 10 minutes loaded the second time for 27 total minutes. |
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OldGuide2 |
As for how long you might take, first question is have you ever portaged a canoe? Although the lightweights are easy to handle there is some technique to picking one up. As someone pointed out, carrying canoe packs can be different, although I have even used Kelty frame packs on canoe trips. To know how long you might take, try a distance with canoe and packs. If you have a canoe go to a nearby lake and take a practice trip. Rent a canoe if you don't have one. The biggest thing is NOT to worry about time. Enjoy portages for what they are, not an obstacle to overcome. As experienced backpackers you know the joy that comes from what you see, hear, and smell walking in the wild. Embrace that. |
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egknuti |
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OldGuide2 |
I remember once working out with Gene Jensen, the canoe racer. He was trying out a portage technique that involved using one of those window installing suction cups. Slap the suction cup on the side of the canoe and off you go. It was OK, but he went back to the old way. Those were pro racers for whom time really was money, but you don't have to worry about that. Enjoy the portage. It is a critical part of the experience and pay no attention to the estimates. |
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Frenchy19 |
bobbernumber3: "A bear on the portage or at the landing can add unallocated time." Yeah, and that happens all the time. Come on! |
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bobbernumber3 |
Frenchy19: "bobbernumber3: "A bear on the portage or at the landing can add unallocated time." Q. Three or four times in 40 trips. |
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boonie |
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