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Boundary Waters Quetico Forum :: Trip Planning Forum :: Outfitters - Proof of Leave No Trace (LNT) and Video 3
 
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YetiJedi
07/08/2023 11:21PM
  
Good questions. My daughters and I watch the videos before every trip...just seems like a good practice with solid reminders.


I used the same pickup location for all three permits so far this year - Duluth. The first time they made me watch all three videos and also asked each question on the back of the permit. The other two times they had me watch the third video and also asked me each question.


I've used four different outfitters over the last five years and they are all very different in their approach. In addition to some of the rules being vague or subject to interpretation, as we've seen debated, the various approaches by different issuing stations probably contribute to misunderstandings or lack of knowledge.


Specific answers:
1) Honor system
2) See the outline of my experiences above
3) Yes, I think they are supposed to ask and initial the questions on the permit
4) Yes, I think they are supposed to check the boxes too


I encourage you to ask your outfitter so you know how they will approach it. Good for you wanting to know and follow the rules. Welcome to the board...have an awesome trip!



 
NEIowapaddler
07/09/2023 09:11PM
  
I've only used an outfitter once, and I won't say which one it was, but they clearly didn't care whether or not I actually watched the 3rd video, or anything about the questions. They put the video on the TV in the office and said I should watch it and then come get the permit when I was done. Then walked away to a different part of the building. There weren't any other people in the place at the time either so it wasn't like they were waiting on a customer. So when I'd watched it I went to the desk, they gave me the permit, and sent me on my way. The people I dealt with there were also borderline rude. Not really unfriendly, it was just clear they didn't like dealing with people, so maybe that was why they blew off the video and stuff.
 
YaMarVa
07/10/2023 06:42AM
  
NEIowapaddler: "I've only used an outfitter once…The people I dealt with there were also borderline rude. Not really unfriendly, it was just clear they didn't like dealing with people, so maybe that was why they blew off the video and stuff. "


This is the main distinction that separates someone who goes into outfitting for themselves vs. so they can be with people. Often outdoorsmen and outdoorswomen go into guiding/outfitting to live the wilderness recreational lifestyle. That is the wrong reason. It’s a service industry and your primary focus needs to be on the customer. I’ve used many guides out west and this is the most obvious observation I’ve made about guides and outfitters.


Voyager Canoe Outfitters and the Sprit of the Wilderness are two examples of great outfitters focused on their customers.
 
BWCA2023
07/08/2023 09:05PM
  
I tried for a while, so I want to ask here before calling a station directly and so others have a spot for a more black and white answer.

For permit holders, I understand they send links to Video 1 and 2, and the 3rd video of Leave No Trace (LNT) needs to be completed through the selected outfitter.
Q1: How do they know you actually watched Videos 1 and 2?
Q2: Do they just pull up the 3rd YouTube video for you to watch quick and you're good to go? I know you can watch the 3rd video ahead of time on YouTube, but do they have a way to track or show proof that you did the 3rd one (or all 3) if you get stopped for a compliance check by a conservation officer, or is it the honor system?
Q3: Are outfitters/issuing location supposed to ask you all the questions (and initial them?) that are on the back side of the permit? Are any marking supposed to be on the back side for items #1-18?
Q4: Are the outfitters/issuing location supposed to "check mark" on the permit authorization boxes "Video" AND "Rules and Regulations," or is just check marking "Video" good with rules and regulation box empty?

I know this is a detailed post, but I want to try to do things right because I know there is terrible specific guidance and seems vague for a lot of others in posts and on Google searches. I can call in if there isn't a solid answer.

Thank you, everyone. Hope the discussion helps others as well.
 
straighthairedcurly
07/08/2023 09:59PM
  
Honor system on videos 1 and 2. The trip leader is responsible for their group to know and follow the LNT rules.


In my experience, not all outfitters make all people watch video 3...wish they did. I don't use outfitters often and usually only to rent a canoe so maybe they are more thorough with less experienced people...don't know. They are supposed to ask you the questions, but neither outfitter I have used did.


I have never actually looked at the back of the permit, so can't answer that one.

Additional tip: If you are someone who takes multiple trips each summer, and you pick up your permit at a ranger station the 1st time, you can request they fill out a little card that indicates you have already done the video and questions. Then you don't have to do it again on subsequent trips.
 
TreeBear
07/11/2023 11:15AM
  
I know we've beat the dead horse with it, but I do miss the previous rules videos. The pre-1993 one with all the mad river canoes is my favorite, though it is over 20 minutes long! The one after that is a classic for it's own reasons. I am glad they updated video 3 quickly after release as the first edition wasn't helpful in the least. The last video was very thorough on the rules (do this, don't do this.) The newest one is just so "you should do this" or "this might make your trip better" feeling. To me, a good rules video lays out the facts of this is what you must do and here's why. The current video feels pretty wishy washy, its predecessor was straightforward on the rules. The old, old video was too long but got into the reasons why the rules exist and are important which I really appreciate. At the end of the day, people will break the rules regardless, but a solid message and outfitters and rangers backing it has a good chance to educate those who wouldn't know better otherwise!