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Boundary Waters Quetico Forum :: Trip Planning Forum :: October permit hypothetical

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wxce1260

09/08/2024 06:42PM

Perfect, thank you. This affirms what I was thinking.

I am a little more excited for this trip this year, because with the way last winter went, my recent paddling stats are:

18 months straight of at least one day in my canoe on the water
6 BWCA trips this year (May, June, July, August, Sept and the solo in October).
Also multi day trip on the St. Croix River and another on the Chippewa Flowage this summer in addition to the BWCA trips.

Heck-I'm not even retired yet, but I will be out of PTO for the next few months LOL. :)

egknuti

09/07/2024 04:35PM

You would need to fill out a permit every time you enter. I’d grab a few extra permits and fill them out as needed. I wouldn’t worry too much about as long as the permits get filled out and returned.

wxce1260

09/07/2024 03:55PM

I always sneak in a solo October trip, so I know all about self-issued permits at that time of the year. But I am looking at doing a bit of a weird loop this Oct. I am thinking of entering at #66 Crocodile, heading up through East Bearskin, Moon, Deer, Caribou, LC, Pine, Canoe, Alder, East Bearskin and finish back at Crocodile loop.

With that loop, I would need to self issue for Crocodile. But then it gets sticky. In the shoulders, you if you enter croc you must stay there. To do this loop, I would actually leave Croc and the BWCA through East Bearskin, reenter in East Bearskin, do my loop, leave the BWCA on the return through East Bearskin and reenter at Crocodile.

Soooo do you think I need to fill out 3 self entry permits when I enter at Crocodile? 1. for croc entry, 2. for Bearsking and 3. for Croc? Anyone else done in and out loops outside of the permit reservation season?

I know I can call a Ranger and get the answer, but I am lazy today and am interested in opinions rather than the source of truth :) lol.

ducks

09/07/2024 11:11PM

Yes. 3 permits as stated, but very easy to do with the self issued permits in October. Just grab a few so you have them and you’re set. Maybe grab them at the Ranger station in Grand Marais when you drive by in case there aren’t any/enough at the EP when you get there. I’ve seen the box empty before so I always have a stash in the vehicle

AceAceAce

09/08/2024 08:45AM

I actually did something similar in 2020 during regular permit season. Since we could self print permits a couple days in advance that year, I had one for crocodile for two nights, then East Bearskin for a couple more.

It's a nice area - enjoy! Be sure to stop by Johnson Falls.

egknuti

09/09/2024 11:26AM

Crocodile River is a restricted permit. You can only stay on the lake. There are areas where you leave or enter the Boundary Waters but do not need a new permit. There are several portages on the Basswood River where you can portage on the Canadian side without consequence. If you head up the Island River you can actually enter and exit the Boundary Water on a short section. You don't need a permit to do this.

Michwall2

09/09/2024 07:50AM

wxce1260: "I always sneak in a solo October trip, so I know all about self-issued permits at that time of the year. But I am looking at doing a bit of a weird loop this Oct. I am thinking of entering at #66 Crocodile, heading up through East Bearskin, Moon, Deer, Caribou, LC, Pine, Canoe, Alder, East Bearskin and finish back at Crocodile loop.

With that loop, I would need to self issue for Crocodile. But then it gets sticky. In the shoulders, you if you enter croc you must stay there. To do this loop, I would actually leave Croc and the BWCA through East Bearskin, reenter in East Bearskin, do my loop, leave the BWCA on the return through East Bearskin and reenter at Crocodile.

Soooo do you think I need to fill out 3 self entry permits when I enter at Crocodile? 1. for croc entry, 2. for Bearsking and 3. for Croc? Anyone else done in and out loops outside of the permit reservation season?

I know I can call a Ranger and get the answer, but I am lazy today and am interested in opinions rather than the source of truth :) lol."

Ok, so I am thinking this is a little anal retentive, even for me.

I know that there is the rule that once you leave you have to have a new permit. I get that. However, there are several places in the BW where people travel short distances outside the BW and continue their trips. There is the 200 yards or so on the south end of Sawbill where you dive outside the BW to get to the Alton Lake Portage. There are campsites on that peninsula facing the Sawbill boat landing where, according to the maps, the instant you get in a canoe you have left the BW! Are you telling me those people have to re-permit just to go fishing around the corner and again when returning to their campsite? Between Juno Lake and Brule, the portage actually leaves the BW for a very short length, yet people take this route all the time and continue on their trips on the same permit? Here is another instance of a place where, most likely, the borders of the BW are set in order to allow motorboat access to a larger portion of the lake. Does this actually mean that you have to have a new permit for traveling 200-400 yards on water outside the BW? You are not planning to re-provision or set foot on land outside the BW. Simply traverse from one section of the BW to another as quickly as possible.

The other thing I question is the statement that permits for the Croc River are Croc River/Croc Lake only. Does the permit actually say "Crocodile Lake Only"? Or are you assuming this is the case? There are lake specific permits (See LLC only) out there. So the fact that the FS has not given that designation to this permit begs the question why? And whether they actually expect people to make loops such as the one you are planning on one permit?

I know, logic has nothing to do with it and they can choose to enforce as they see fit. However, I would wonder if a more uniform concept should not be established.

THEGrandRapids

09/09/2024 12:23PM

I don't think you need three- you only need one. The restrictive- stay only on Crocodile- permits only apply during the open permit season for "overnight canoe permit". All you need is a self issued day permit- there are no overnight permits for the off season.

The other issue I think is well settled that you can leave and reenter the bwca boarder if traveling between two areas and you do not stop and resupply.

An overzealous ranger might try to make a word salad and write you a ticket, but no judge would see this as law breaking.

ducks

09/09/2024 06:26PM

Crocodile has specific rules different than the other areas where you cross non BWCA water to get to other BWCA water. This is the SNF sign at the East Bearskin landing. Since you have to write the EP on the self issued non quota season permit I would think It would still follow the same quota season rules for Crocodile and East Bearskin.

That being said, I really doubt a ranger would give you a ticket for it in October on a self issued permit. But is it really worth taking a chance when it’s so easy to just fill out 3 of them? The weight of 2 extra pieces of paper is a lot lighter than paying a fine or going through the hassle of fighting it in court.

billconner

09/09/2024 06:08PM

THEGrandRapids: "
The other issue I think is well settled that you can leave and reenter the bwca boarder if traveling between two areas and you do not stop and resupply. "

I agree on the crocodile only but leaving and rentering is only for corridor crossings, basically crossing either the Gunflint Trail or Echo Trail.

wxce1260

09/09/2024 09:37PM

ducks: "

That being said, I really doubt a ranger would give you a ticket for it in October on a self issued permit. But is it really worth taking a chance when it’s so easy to just fill out 3 of them? The weight of 2 extra pieces of paper is a lot lighter than paying a fine or going through the hassle of fighting it in court.

"

This is my thing-- I am overly anal on following the rules, even the ones that seem a bit arcane or I might not agree with. ( my kid who works in law enforcement came by it naturally ). So even though I am sure that I would probably get a pass or (if the govt is shutdown) not even see a Ranger, I will still sleep easier knowing I have done it by the book. I am just going to grab the extra permits and deal with it that way.

Michwall2

09/10/2024 07:26AM

ducks: "