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Boundary Waters Quetico Forum :: Trip Planning Forum :: EP questions
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| Author | Message Text | ||
| Michwall2 |
JimEb: "My understanding is you must enter the day you pick up your permit. The outfitter (and ranger station) can issue permits the day before entry. I do this all the time. We went up the Arrowhead Trail for our entry last September at North Fowl Lake. Picked up our permit the day before at the ranger station in GM. We can leave when we are ready in the morning. I do this for almost all of my trips. Go the other way around on your trip? Enter Brant Lake and spend a couple days on Bat then head out for your lake trout on Tuscarora. You can do the "death march" with a lighter food pack and not worry about campsites the first day. Just a thought. |
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| boonie |
I've also gone in/out of Brant. The portages to get to Brant are not difficult. The western site on Brant is in a burn, but useable for a night if you don't need to hang food. Beyond that the portages to Bat and the next sites are challenging. The northern site on Bat is also in a burn area. I've gone from Cross Bay to Snipe, then through Copper and Howl to Tuscarora. A lot of little things to deal with that way. Exited to Round, camped on Missing Link. I've gone from Missing Link through Tuscarora all the way to Little Sag. Missing Link portages are long but straight forward. Not too much more to Crooked and more sites if needed. Your best bet is to pick up the permit the day before, get up early and head off through Missing Link to Tuscarora. You should get there when people are leaving and find a site. |
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| bottomtothetap |
I would not keep as a contingency to "bushwack" a camp along the portage or anywhere else that does not have a Forest Service firegrate and a latrine. Camping is restricted to those designated places that have them. In a true emergency, you need to do what you have to do--I did bushwack a camp once in the BWCA when circumstances arose that made me decide the risk of a fine was the safest and best choice but our camp was then the tents only--cold food with no cooking and we moved along as quickly as we could in the morning. I try to plan to where we won't need to do that again and my contingent options don't include a bushwacked camp. |
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| EmmaMorgan |
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| gravelroad |
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| boonie |
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| gravelroad |
afromaniac: "JimEb: "Any idea when the reduced office hours for ranger stations might happen or get announced? It is not a moot point for people planning 2025 trips. The location for picking up the permit must be specified when buying the permit online. Someone driving from Chicago or Cleveland or Seattle would find it mighty inconvenient to discover a “Closed” sign on a ranger station the day before the trip starts. As noted, only a USFS employee can change the location, not a cooperator: “Picking up your permit “Ensure your trip leader or alternate is ready to pick up your permit on the day of your trip or one day prior at the issue station selected in Recreation.gov. Please call a Forest Service district office if you need to change your issue station due to an unforeseen circumstance.” Boundary Waters Canoe Area Wilderness |
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| JimEb |
Brought up by why there’s multiple EPs (51 and 52) on Round Lake. EP51 seems associated with Tuscarora Outfitters, is this why EP52 exists? Does the EP you get a permit for dictate which direction you must go?…either Missing Link Lake or towards Brant Lake? Planning my first BWCA trip next year and was thinking EP52, spend first night on Missing Link and tackle the “Tuscarora Death March Portage” in the morning when I hopefully more refreshed after a long 1st day. Concerned that plan puts too much hope on 1 of the 3 Missing Link campsites being open. Seems pushing forward to Tuscarora would be a failure since it sounds like finding an open site on that lake is even less likely. Which leaves this plans only contingency then of bushwacking a camp somewhere along the Tuscarora portage. After day 1 my itinerary is more comfortably flexible. |
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| JimEb |
If you spend the first night in a bunkhouse at an outfitter, does the outfitter have the authority then issue your permit for you the next morning? Otherwise I could just get a hotel in Grand Marais and hit the ranger station for my permit as soon as they open. EP52 is an 7.5 hr drive for me. Got no issue hitting the road at 4am for a 12pm ETA, Grand Marais is on the way. Got plenty of daylight, just not sure of my stamina. Could maybe pop down to Snipe Lake for 3 more campsite options and do the howl swamp portage to Tuscarora the next morning…guess that will give 6 total potential first night options. My ultimate goal for this trip is to catch Lake Trout…priority is do a loop and eventually make my way to and spend a couple days on Bat Lake. |
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| Michwall2 |
I wouldn't be so worried about findng a campsite on Tuscarora. The long portage and the relative amount of work it takes to get to Tuscarora from anywhere else insulates this part of the BW from being overrun like other parts can be. It is my experience that finding permits into this part of the BW can be done much later in the season than most others. |
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| HighnDry |
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| JimEb |
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| HighnDry |
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| afromaniac |
Personally I'd choose Missing Link. Brant lake does not have many sites and it is just as much of a pain in the butt if those are taken - you need to go several more portages in before you get to another open site. The "death march" portage on the missing link side is about a 45 minute walk (one way) but it's not an insane uphill at all. Plan accordingly and you'll be in Tuscarora before you know it. You do need to put the canoe in the lake on the day of your permit, so if you got a permit for 8/1, plan to get to Tuscarora Lodge and overnight there on 7/31 so you can wake up fresh in the morning and hit that portage. By the time you get to Tuscarora, people will be packing up their stuff to move on to the next lake and you'll find a spot. Moving from Tuscarora up to Bat Lake the next day is absolutely doable but there's only two sites on Bat so you may be pushing your luck. Last couple times we did that, we camped on GIllis the night before and struck out early to fish on Bat until the folks at those sites departed :) |
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| afromaniac |
Just to ease your mind though we got to the lodge at 1PM last year and had zero problems getting a site on Tuscarora that night before dinner time. Be mindful about your packs and hem as close to one pack person as you can, I know that's not always possible but the less you need to double back, the better off you'll be. |
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| Jaywalker |
JimEb: "My understanding is you must enter the day you pick up your permit…… You do have to enter on the day your permit is for, but you can pick it up either on day of entry or one day before. If you are looking at the map on this site, the placement of the signs for entry 51 and 52 is confusing and not entirely accurate. Like afromaniac mentioned, Round Lake is not the actual entry point even though it is where people park and start paddling. If you look at the green boarder, that’s the point where you are actually entering the BWCA. So regardless of if you have a 51 or 52 permit, if you are self outfitting you would park in the parking lot that’s a bit north and west of Tuscarora Lodge - you can see it more easily by switching to satellite mode. If you are using Tuscarora’s services, they may let you park by them but you would have to check. |
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| afromaniac |
I've camped on Brant on the end of that loop and after doing the portages between Bat and Brant, and seeing folks paddle in bewildered at not getting a spot, knowing the portages that are between Brant and the next campsites, I think you'd be better off death marching it to Tuscarora. All those shorter portages will feel like their own version of a death march :) But that's just me - check the maps and plan accordingly. |
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| straighthairedcurly |
Outfitters do not have dibs on any specific permits. It is first come, first served for everyone equally. The recommendation to saty in a bunkhouse and get an early start is a good one. I do not recommend driving up, getting your permit that same day, and heading out if it means you are entering the BWCA in the afternoon. Early starts are more the norm. You can pick up your permit one day ahead of time or the same day. But you MUST enter only on the date stated on your permit. So plan your actual entry day carefully. My itinerary might look like this: June 1st - drive up, dinner in Grand Marais, stay at Tuscarora bunkhouse June 2nd - pick up permit and rental canoe (Tuscarora), enter BWCA, camp at Missing Link (or be prepared to head to Tuscarora if no sites). I always have an alternative in mind of where to go if the sites are all full on a specific lake. Crash camping is very, very frowned upon (as well as illegal) and should only be done in 2 situations: weather is too dangerous to continue, or nighttime has come and you have still been unsuccessful finding a campsite and it is too dangerous to continue. Good planning and situational awareness avoids both these situations 99% of the time. And as others have mentioned re. emergency camp, no fire, and leave the spot by dawn. |
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| billconner |
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| afromaniac |
JimEb: "Any idea when the reduced office hours for ranger stations might happen or get announced? Kind of confused at this question. Permits for 2025 have not gone on sale yet so if this is about some time in the near future it's a moot point. But I would advise buying online for your proposed dates well in advance. Then, sure, you can pick up the entry pass at any official ranger station or outfitter on the way up that makes sense and just head into the wild when you get to the EP :) I have arrived at a ranger station and been unable to pull one for the spot that I wanted on the day I got there. If you wait until the day you're putting in, you might find out that both EP 51 and 52 are taken and have to scramble to plan a totally different trip. |
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| boonie |
JimEb: "Any idea when the reduced office hours for ranger stations might happen or get announced? Some thoughts on permit pickup- I believe there was a closure last year during permit season, but I'm not clear on details. Maybe someone can fill in the gaps . . . Besides passing right by Tofte and Gunflint ranger stations, you'll also go right by Sawtooth Outfitters in Tofte whom I have used quite a few times in the past. There are quite a few outfitters (cooperators) along the Gunflint Trail that you'll pass. All of these will have longer hours in case you get delayed along the way. There will be a list of cooperators on the Rec.gov website where you reserve permits. If you pick up at outfitters who serve the area you are traveling, they'll have current information about the area. Something to keep in mind. When you a name a cooperator on the reservation, you can't just go in and change it yourself. So you should decide this before making your reservation. |
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| afromaniac |
Jaywalker: "I think this may be right. I have had the outfitter change it after the fact. Actually - Tuscarora Lodge specifically :)boonie: ....Something to keep in mind. When you a name a cooperator on the reservation, you can't just go in and change it yourself. So you should decide this before making your reservation. " |
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| Speckled |
This group is great for all these questions and any subsequent questions, as would the folks at Tuscarora Lodge. Owners Andy and Ada are fantastic. You could call them anytime and they would happily have a discussion about all things BW and your trip regardless of whether you're using thier outfitting services or thier bunkhouse. They could also walk you through how to reserve a permit if you don't have that all dialed in yet (You've got a little over a month until permits go up at the end of January). |
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| Northwoodsman |
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| Speckled |
gravelroad: "I don’t use an outfitter for permits because I live a short distance from Frost River, a cooperator located in Duluth. I do think, however, that out-of-state trippers would be wise not to plan on picking up a permit at a USFS District Ranger office. There is already talk of those offices having reduced hours in the months ahead. We might have some even more unpleasant surprises in that regard in 2025." Had that in mind - Living in Duluth, I've usually done the SNF office out on Grand, unsure if hours there are reducing, but might be safe to just switch to Frost River...love that store. Can wander of to Hungry Hippie Tacos or Burger Paradox for some good grub, while picking up the permit than as well. |
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| Jaywalker |
boonie: ....Something to keep in mind. When you a name a cooperator on the reservation, you can't just go in and change it yourself. So you should decide this before making your reservation. " If I recall correctly, a person can not easily change the pick up location, but the pick up location can. I usually like stopping in at the ranger station (I like taking to to the rangers!), but a couple years ago I remember getting a late start and fearing I would not make it the GM ranger station before close. I called on the drive and had the pick up changed to the Duluth Pack Store instead. I do not recall If Duluth Pack was able to do it, or if I called the GM ranger station, but it was possible to change the pick up location on the day of pick up. |
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| JimEb |
Website still shows summer hours as 8-4:30, 7 days/week. Was planning on just picking up my permit at gunflint since I’d be driving right past it. Pitstop in Grand Marais to grab lunch and gas up the car one last time before hitting the final stretch of highway. |
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| LindenTree |
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| afromaniac |
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| boonie |
afromaniac: "I have been able to call an outfitter and have them change the permit pickup location to themselves. That was a few years back, maybe it's changed? " Yes, it has changed. |