Boundary Waters Quetico Forum :: Group Forum: Boat Builders and Repair :: Varnish: confusing world of
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Wables |
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Cedarboy |
CB Northwest Canoe has been using a 2 part from Epiphanes, SUPER TOUGH STUFF. VERY hard to scratch. It is expensive though. |
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airmorse |
quote HighPlainsDrifter: " I used Z-spar Captains on my kayak and was happy with it. Remember when applying varnish that wood breaths...so when the wood is warming up it outgases and if you apply your varnish as the wood is warming you will get zillions of tiny bubbles. That is a bad bad thing. I'm sure you knew this already. Good luck and can't wait to see. Curt |
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Bannock |
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mwd1976 |
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Bannock |
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HighPlainsDrifter |
Hi Soon, very soon I will be moving my canoe outside to sand the bumps and ripples of my epoxy....... then (drum roll) I will be looking at varnish. I have been cruising around the Jamestown site. It looks like the big players are: Z-Spar Captains Z-SPAR Flagship Pettit Ultra Clear Captains Anybody got a favorite (recommendation) "must use" varnish? |
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HighPlainsDrifter |
Lets get facts straight about this issue of varnish on epoxy or fiberglass ! To separate fact from fiction, I asked the experts at PETIT about Z-SPAR Flagship varnish. My Question: Is it OK to use Z-SPAR Flagship varnish on Systems III epoxy? This application is a cedar strip canoe that has been covered with fiberglass using Systems III SilverTip marine laminating resin Answer: Thank you for the e-mail. Yes, follow the overcoating instructions. Joe Petrocelli Customer Service Pettit Paint |
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Woods Walker |
quote Bannock: "Ditto Cedarboy. I use Helmsman Spar Urethane by Minwax that I buy at Menards. Seems to work well for me." Ditto, Ditto Works for me, I recoat every other year. |
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ladyspiller |
I've built more canoes than I care to count. Yes you do varnish over fiberglass, absolutely. Yes. Helmsman spar varnish is extremely low quality. It wears poorly, has low UV inhibitors, and loses it's gloss rapidly. I've used hundreds og gallons of varnish on canoes over the years. Z-Spar Captains varnish is good but has more solvents in it so it is a thinner varnish. It's quality is good but not great. Z-Spar Flagship varnish is the best vanish on the market. It is superior in quality, gloss retention and UV inhibitors. IT is thick varnish and should be thinned 5% or so with their brush flow thinner if you are having a hard time getting it on the boat. Use as little thinner as possible to get it to thin out. You need three thin coats on a boat as a minimum. Any empty space in the vanish can will allow the varnish to thicken and gel over time. I use quarter sized cleaned rocks in the bottom of the can to keep the can full to the top. Otherwise your vanish will be ruined in a few months. Tom |
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carpetman |
I use automotive clearcoat. It is expensive, but durable. I sprayed my kayak 10 years ago it is used 12-15 times a year, spends 30+ days on roof rack in south sun still looks like new. I was recoating every year with varnish. If you think logically would you brush varnish on your corvette of fiber glass speed boat. Varnish will block uv rays. It is much better than nothing. but in my opinion automotive clear is the way to go. |
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HighPlainsDrifter |
I believe there is room for interpretation of what "marine varnish" means: Spar varnish (also called marine varnish) was originally intended for use on ship or boat spars, to protect the timber from the effects of sea and weather. |
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Cedarboy |
Would agree interior polyurethane is crap for exterior use. Helmsman has the UV inhibitors for exterior, thats what its for. Good link about varnishs. Remember you are putting this on epoxy NOT wood. Varnish wont stick to epoxy. CB |
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HighPlainsDrifter |
No easy answer, I guess. But, your posts prompted me to look at different products and try to figure out what "varnish" is all about. I found a good article and this article says: " varnish pretenders — the so-called "spar varnish" made from linseed oil and urethane resin. "Spar Urethane" varnish should be avoided in any exterior application in which even moderate exposure to direct sunlight is likely. We need look no further than the properties of varnish made from urethane resin (polyurethane) to understand why. Urethane resin varnishes suffer two weaknesses that have direct bearing on varnish used in exterior applications in general, and marine applications in particular " Marine varnish |
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HighPlainsDrifter |
These days "varnish" is kinda of a catch-all term (I think) and the new formulations are way different than "traditional varnish". On the Jamestown page they talk about the benefits of varnish over epoxy: "Two-part clear polyurethanes are known for superior UV resistance and scratch resistance compared to traditional varnishes, but they have shown mixed results when applied directly to wood. They also tend to develop cracks due to expansion/contraction of the wood. Two to three coats of epoxy also provide a stable base for clear two-part polyurethane finishes. Applied over epoxy, they perform beautifully together and outlast either coating used by itself". |
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buffalodick |
Dick |
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amhacker22@hotmail.com |
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Cedarboy |
The 2 part NWC uses is from Epifanes. It is d$%# near as tough as epoxy. Amazing scratch resistance. Almost the same price as epoxy. Debating a try. Let us know what you will be using and results. CB |
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Cedarboy |
CB |
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Bannock |
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HighPlainsDrifter |
Cedar Jamestown Distibutors has a sale on Epifanes right now: 1000ml (1.05 quarts) is priced at $26.99 !!!! (reg price $43.66) By comparison JD offers: Z-SPAR Flagship at $29.99/qt Z-SPAR Captains at $25.99 (on sale also) reg price = 36.99/qt Epifanes clear marine spar varnish is renowned for its gloss finish and offers superior protection in all climates. Made from Chinese tung oil and non-yellowing alkyd and urethane resins including U.V. inhibitors to make it an exceptional finish for wood or over traditional marine varnish clear urethane and clear epoxy resins systems. As this is my first baby, I am really tempted to spoil her and put on the "big name" stuff at the sale prices |