Boundary Waters Quetico Forum :: Group Forum: Wilderness Challenges :: Leadership Challenge #2 (Destroyed Canoe)
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Old Hoosier |
Definitely NOT use the phone. This is not a catastrophe, but simply an inconvenience. Even with women and children I would not call for help. These real life situations are great learning opportunities. Thankfully, they do not happen often, but why use the phone and destroy the experience? |
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Crooked_Paddle |
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Jayhawk |
My first inclination would be an attempt to fix the vessel. Quite a few great ideas but realisticaly while most remedies would make the canoe float I think the stress on the canoe would make portages frustrating. Weather would also play a role. Too big a chop on the water would make it a risky matter. If that thing cracks open with all your gear in the middle of the lake you've got another challenge to overcome. |
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suko |
Without checking the map, I would say go the shortest route and least ascending of contour, no rapids. Of course if the repair works out well, why spoil a good adventure? Just alter your route and stay out. Maybe basecamp an extra night or two. |
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Corndog |
With one broken Canoe, the trip is over, we all need to safely get to the closest exit point. The best time of day is early morning, when water is glass. I call the outfitter on the Sat phone and let them know what we are attempting and when we will be leaving in the morning. Good Night Sleep, eat well and assure everyone this is just part of the fun. Make sure the calls are made and ask them to consider your plan, make sure they understand what you are doing and they agree, you don’t want them to over-react, heck maybe a new canoe will be flown in, and the broken canoe can be flown out. You don’t want the Canadians to launch a rescue, stay calm and discuss the options Here’s my plan: First lash the two pieces of the broken canoes together to make one short canoe, I have no reason to think it would be safe to put people in this, but I would waterproof 2 packs with the duct tape so that they float, these I lash to the outside of the short canoe with sticks across the top so that the packs add buoyancy to the broken canoe. I will not leave a mess for the next campers. Tents, tarps and flys will help in making the canoe waterproof and able to carry gear, the glue and Duct tape help here. Shuttle service, the crew out with one fresh paddler between each leg. This will be easiest part of the trip. On the first leg we pull the improvised canoe with the floating packs and gear, this is the hard part make sure it is seaworthy and that all gear makes it out. We might need it if something else like Leadership challenge 3-12 happen. Ist leg: 3 people (A, B and C), in canoe with A and B paddling, take them to the first portage. Drop off B and C with gear. They begin next portage if required. 2nd leg: Person A returns for guy left behind. 3rd Leg 3: 2 People (A and D) paddle to portage point. Paddler D portages Canoe and A has to just carry himself, he is tired by now. Rinse and Repeat camp as necessary and enjoy the outdoors. |
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Naguethey |
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quetico1 |
A Royalex canoe could survive a nuclear explosion. |
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rookie in 03 |
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Beemer01 |
Been there. Canoes can still float with an astonishing amount of damage. |
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oldgentleman |
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jb in the wild |
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myceliaman |
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camp-n-scrap |
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Mongo65 |
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woodpecker |
Woodpecker |
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drnatus |
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bojibob |
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cheesehead |
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whiteh20 |
2) Put gear in short canoe. Properly packed packs will be waterproof and will help to displace water that will seep in due to poor duct tape job. 3) 4 guys paddle in good canoe towing short boat with gear. 4) Head to your take out point. |
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rlhedlund |
Incredible pictures. Closet thing I had was to winch out a john boat wrapped around a tree in a river. My brother-in-law still has that boat. |
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gbusk |
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rlhedlund |
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hapstap |
rlhedlund took my idea about sliding the halves inside each other and reinforcing. But would still be a work in progress to get it right for a day. Then head back with idea of shuffling gear and crew if repair did not take. |
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gbuskk |
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mwd1976 |
In all seriousness, I fancy myself a pretty handy guy and have "MacGyvered" my way out of jams before and would at least take a shot at fixing the canoe enough to get out. I think peole have already given some good ideas on how to do that. If all else failed contact the outfitter to see what they can do to help. As for direction, it would depend on how well the repaired canoe traveled, but likely just the nearest point I know I can find help. |
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moosedrool |
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sotaman |
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Basspro69 |
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Naguethey |
Taking a couple of split branches to make new gunwhales with inside and out. Split them down the middle with our knife. Then drill holes in the hull 3-4 holes next to each other in atleast 3-4 places over about 4 feet in each direction, directly under the existing gunwhales.. Pull spruce root up out of the dirt and split it in the center and clean and soak in the water for awhile.. Then use the split root to lash the new gunwhales to the canoe halves. Tying to the two halves back together this way.... Repeat this process in 3 seperate places along the hull lashing 3 sturdy split sticks to the hull to give it support and hold it's shape. ie. a inner keel, one on each radius. Extending atleast 3-4 feet front to back past the broken section and securely drilled and lashed to the hull. Then melting down pine sap on a hot rock set on a slope by the fire... Mix in crushed charcoal and deer droppings or crushed up fine vegetable matter for fiber. Mix this into a paste to make pinepitch.. Fill all holes drilled with pitch. Cover whole area with a good piece of birch bark. And lash it to the hull. Then coat all lashing and any bark cracks or splits with pitch.... Put remaining pitch on small sticks and wind into small balls to save for the next few days along your trip. Two days on shore and this work should be complete. And ready to continue your trip without losing anymore days or having to cut it short. If you don't push through big waves/rough water. And just take it easy. I'd bet this method would put you floating about normal. Although it would look really funny... Pitch may need touched up in the evenings or touch up any leaks. By warming the pitch up by the fire and spreading it on the leak.. |
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solotrek |
I would choose D -- free flowing thoughts. First of all, I wouldn't try to fix the broken canoe. IMO, it's trash and I wouldn't take the time to try and fix it and possibly compromise safety. Second, I wouldn't load four people into one canoe, just like I wouldn't trust a repaired canoe. I would ration food for two people who would be left behind for three days. I would leave most of the gear with them. I would take the two fittest paddlers, provide them with food and minimal gear, and have them head north to the nearest Canadian entry point. My thought of heading through waters not yet traveled is that, if we were good enough to paddle four days into an isolated lake, we're good enough to paddle a two day journey in about 1 1/2 days since we would be paddling with minimal gear. As we got closer to the entry point, we would encounter others who would direct us to an outfitter where we could secure another canoe. Towing the new canoe (rather than soloing two tandem canoes) we would return to the two previously left behind and paddle back to the U.S. outfitter towing the two pieces of broken canoe. I would return the good canoe plus the broken canoe to the outfitter and load the Canadian canoe onto the vehicle. If two or three needed to be home sooner than the other one or two, they would head home while the other(s) went to Canada to return the "borrowed" canoe. I would only call if we were going to be late getting home or late getting back to the outfitter. I know this seems logistically cumbersome, but I would try to make this ordeal into a safe new adventure. |
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deadeye |
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bojibob |
Challenge #2: (Destroyed Canoe) Situation: You are traveling in a party of 4 (Combined crew weight of 800 lbs) in two rental Old Town Penobscot 17 foot Royalex Canoes (max load weight of 1100-1150 Lbs). You are carrying 4 large packs, 4 smaller personal packs and misc. fishing gear with a total gear weight of approximately 350 lbs split evenly between the two canoes. Your current location: Cub Lake. Cub Lake is the geographic center of Quetico Park. Cub Lake is not frequently visited and is 2 days travel to the closest Canadian entry point and 3-4 days travel to the U.S. entry point (Prairie Portage-where you entered and your outfitter is based on Mosse Lake). Items of interest in your gear pack: You have a standard canoe repair kit of a roll of duct tape (25 yards), Rubber Cement and Superglue). You have over 200 feet of various sized ropes. You have a SAT phone with emergency numbers for Ontario Provincial Police and your Outfitter. The Challenge: During the night, a large storm moved in from the Northwest with winds in excess of 40 MPH. You had tied the canoes down but only by the bow and left them down near the shore. During the storm one of your canoes was violent tossed against a tree and the resulting damage occurred. (Thanks to Tom Pinkerton - Uncle Moose for permission to use his photos) Now What? (please choose one) a. You are better than MacGyver and you will attempt to repair the canoe and head home. Follow on Question: Which way do you head.. North or South entry points and why? b. You decide to abandon all but essential gear and put 4 people and the essential gear into one canoe and attempt to head for home. Follow on Question: Which way do you head.. North or South entry points and why? c. You decide to utilize the SAT phone and call for help. Follow on Question: Who do you call and why? d. Your idea? (free flow thoughts) Next Challenge: Broken Ankle. If you missed Leadership Challenge 1: CLICK HERE |
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rlhedlund |
Given the pictures hint of warmer weather, might try to repair enough to load with gear. Keep all 4 people in good canoe. tie repaired one along side or pull behind. Make sure everything is securely tied in, in case of swamping. Go back the way we came in as we know the route and what to expect. Worst case is we pack all in the one canoe after culling through our packs to reduce unwanted food. This is fun bojibob. |
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gutmon |
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bradcrc |
Would be interesting to experiment a bit with how half canoes float. Many possibilities. If that doesn't work, using a water proof tarp around the canoe half would be an effective water barrier making it more than capable of carrying the packs safely. if THAT still didn't work, punching some holes in the sides of the canoe above the water line and lashing the sides together with strong poles would form a very sturdy frame that could support the hull and be made watertight with either duct tape alone, or by again using a tarp or portion of the tarp with duct tape. For me, it would be more of a hands-on process of experimenting on the real-world effectiveness of each option. I think each could be attempted and tested without much time investment, and since there are no complications such as serious injuries escalating the situation, there would seem to be enough time to have some fun looking at alternatives. |
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kevheads |
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canoe212 |
Good question Boji. This one took a lot more thought than the last one did. This is fun. After thought: I will need to be in contact with my out fitter and family. Being home a day or 2 late is very likely. Once you have "fixed" that canoe, it will probably need to be babied across all portages. |
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bobby726 |
I would try and cut a little narrower than another and "slide" the smaller piece into the bigger piece of the canoe. Punch a couple holes above the water line to tie the the two halves together and then do my best to duct tape below the water line. You may have to add some long wood sticks an inch or two thick to support the bottom. I would try and place all the bags in their and stay close to shore as I was heading back. Depending on the "flotablility" of the canoe, I may leave right away thinking it will take an extra day or two to get out or I may just say heck with it and stay my intended lenth. |
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Voyageur |
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YaMarVa |
I was going to choose B, but I like whiteh20's answer. No need to call an outfitter for a canoe to be flown in, is that humor? I would not want to be in a canoe that needed that much repair unless it was a big blue sky day on silky smooth waters. |
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Koda |
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gutmon |
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kanoes |
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Cedarboy |
Leapfrog out with all 4 people and gear, leaving damaged canoe behind(assuming canoe looks like picture). Explained: Carry all 4 people to next portage then 2 go back for gear, then over the portage then do it all over again. Trade off going back at each portage so you share the work. Will take longer but all get out safe and sound. Notify Rangers/RCMP when exit then figure out how to get canoe out(if needed by dog sled ion the winter). CB |
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Minnesotian |
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That Guy |
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fishnfreak |
1.waste no time with the broken canoe, who wants it now anyway? 2. begin the slow task of shuttling out. 3. since you are really in no danger no need for the sat phone 4. Once you get close to the EP you could ditch two guys and have the other two go out to get assisstance or just continue the process of shuttling. The way I see it is you screwed up you fix the situation and get your own self out. |
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Banksiana |
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fishnfreak |
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Minnesotian |
First, I would assure everyone in my group that this is not a huge problem and we will get home. Depending on who I trip with, I can see some panic rearing it's ugly head. Then, we would start trimming gear and getting everyone loaded into one canoe, but not shoving off that day. The gear we leave behind would be packed in a bag, something durable, and lashed to a tree, if the hopes of retrieving it at a future time. Next, I would call the outfitter, explain our situation, and tell them we are heading out with one canoe, but heading to the Canadian entry point, and to please inform our families that we might be late exiting. Or, if the group is fine with it, heading to the Minnesota side of it all. Depends on the food situation and if it can be streched out to 5 days. After getting the gear trimmed and everyone comfortable with being in one canoe, THEN we would see about fixing the other canoe for the rest of that day. If we can get it working somewhat, then we would change our plans for loading. If not, we can still all fit into one canoe. After that, I would make a big meal, a real belly filler, and enjoy the last night at our campsite. The next morning, early, early, early, well in advance of the sun rise, when the odds are that the lake is super calm, we would head out. We would take our time, rationing food along the way. We wouldn't hurry to paddle, because of how low the canoe is riding, but we could go a fair distance before the wind picked up. The sat phone would stay attached to someone and in a waterproof case or bag, just in case something even more catastrophic would happen, we still have an out. And if we had to stop early in the day due to wind, two people would set up camp, while the other two fished for dinner. If we caught fish, that is dinner for that night. If not, then we dip into rations. Slow and steady, we get home safely. |
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nojobro |
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nojobro |
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firftr911 |
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moose plums |
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cheesehead |
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brerud |
I think sliding one end into the other and stitching it together is the smartest way to try and repair it. Pine pitch, rubber cement, etc. could be used to try and keep the water out. I would probably try that first and maybe even add in whatever I could come up with between the two halves to form a sort of gasket that when pushed together would slow the water coming into the canoe. |
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Koda |
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Rapid Runner |
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The Lorax |
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hexnymph |
d. Your idea? (free flow thoughts) – Leap frog back to PP leaving the trashed canoe where it lies. Perhaps it could be rigged to float but I would never depend on a repair that extreme for critical gear or people. Travel will be slow but not impossible. Accept the kindness of strangers if encountered and offered but certainly not depend on it. (Why ruin somebody else’s trip if it is not a life/death emergency, but some other people might really get into helping out… it takes all kinds) You indicated 3-4 days travel to PP but did not indicate when you would be expected back to the outfitter or PP. Perhaps the SAT phone would be used to indicate the cause in our delay to the outfitter if we aren’t going to make it back in time. If food is an issue (and we aren’t catching fish… not likely? ) then perhaps a call to the outfitter is also in order. Continue to try and enjoy the trip and deal with whatever other hurdles are presented. Hex |
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L.T.sully |
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Scrubb |
I think everyone is over-estimating their backcountry repair skills here a touch. A minor tear in the Kevlar, sure, use some duct tape and limp out. But two canoe halves? I don't think soggy duct tape has that much holding power. Only option is to shuttle out, IMHO. Not sure how you end up getting the broken canoe out once you get yourself out. |
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Koda |
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FullGo |
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Mad_Angler |
First, I really enjoyed reading every one else's answers. I learned a lot and have modified my answer based on some of their answers. Now, I would spend a day trying to get the broken boat to work. I would use the rope, duct tape, and strong sticks to work as splints. I also liked the idea of stitching the halves together. Next, I would put as much gear and people into the good boat as it could safely handle. I would put the rest of the geat at the front and back of the bad boat. I would try to make these packs water proof and try to make sure they floated. Then, I would start to paddle out the way that I came in. I don't want any surprises. Since I have a sat fone, I would probably call the outfitter before doing anything. I would explain my plan and discuss my options with the outfitter. With his experience, it is very likely that he would have a better solution. |
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fishfry |
There is a lot of options since no one is injured. Lets look at the easy way out, call the outfitter and let them figure it out(pay bill when they rescue you). Nothing is mentioned about what tools mite be at hand (me)lock blade knife, Gerber Scoutmaster multitool, hatchet and saw. Cut off jagged edge to make it fit together (overlapping)for ease of duct taping together. Cut/break gunwales to fit together, carve holes in side below gunwale to stitch saplings (sacrifice live trees to save lives) to both gunwales. Carve holes across bottom to stitch both halves together. use the smallest diameter rope then carefully apply tape covering seam and rope. Cut three, 4in saplings, 8 ft long, split in half. Taper the ends and tie together leaving 3 in between each slat. Put it under the canoe like a raft ( to give it some support and flotation) tie the front to the front seat and the back to the rear seat and across the center to the yoke. All the gear goes in the good canoe. No rapids and no heavy waves the tape won't last forever. If the fix will last two days to nearest entry point it mite last three days to outfitter. Two people could Finnish paddling to outfitter and return with a canoe, saving both equipment and money. If the fix doesn't work it will still cost the same for a rescue of two people regardless of weather it is 10 or 30 miles, then use the sat phone. |
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inthewoods |
head south to outfitters |
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SunCatcher |
2. I would get over it, and then forget about fixing it. 3. Leave two guys at camp with ample supplies, probably more of the "not so needed" gear would be left at camp with these two. 4. The best in shape two would hi tail it to outfitter and get help. with light wight neeeded essentials only. 5. We would figure the rest out after back at outfitter how to the other two out. 6. Probablly would get my friends with a Black hawk Helicopter to swoop in and save our sorry butt's. (ha, ha) or call Clark Kanoe, Clark Kent's younger brother and he could fly over and save the other two...but actually we would go back with two canoes and get the other two guys. |
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RT |
After that I think (unless told not to) I would pack all of the gear into the one remaining canoe and let the weaker paddlers take that. The two stronger paddlers will do the bow float thing like MWD1976 has in a picture. This, just to keep from everyone and all the gear from being crammed in one canoe. If that does not work I think I would try to McGyver the broken canoe by slipping the two halves together, lashing them with rope and seeing how watertight I could make them. |
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Amok |
**btw** I am replying before reading the other posts, even tho I am obviously late to the party. |