Boundary Waters Quetico Forum :: Group Forum: Wilderness Challenges :: Leadership Challenge #4 (The Call)
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andym |
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Crooked_Paddle |
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Old Hoosier |
Yup - gotta "bail" and everybody goes. Even if everyone was not planning on personally going to the funeral, I would expect (and would offer) full support from everyone to get to the airport ASAP. This is clearly an "all hands on deck" situation. |
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bojibob |
1. Shemps middle name is Harry. All the kids at the Prep School teased him constantly and called him "Shrimp" He has been going by Harry ever since. 2. Koda and Kanoes. Stand Down...please. |
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Spartan2 |
2/17/2009 01:25PM "Looks like trip over as most of the experience probably wants to head back to the funeral. Lessons to consider: 1) Go camping with your spouse. 2) Sat phones are for outgoing calls. Took one on our last trip and no one knew the number and it never came out of the case. Yes, we have relatives who are not comfortable with us being completely out of touch but we don't even tell them we carry a sat phone." I could have written all of the above, and indeed, did think of writing nearly the same words. Having said that, though, in the problem there IS a SAT phone, and they do know about the deaths of the in-laws. Soap-Opera or not, at this point, common human decency says that the trip is canceled, postponed, put on hold, or whatever so that the three men who know the unfortunate accident victims are headed back for support of family during a traumatic situation. This isn't a case of intellect, just a case of family and friends doing the decent thing. That's just my opinion, and admittedly the opinion of a person who wouldn't have been able to be reached in the first place. Seems to me that tremolo had a good suggestion for follow-up, too. |
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schweady |
PhD? Really? as in 'Piled higher and Deeper'? |
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bojibob |
Challenge #4: (“The Call”) Situation: You are traveling in a party of 4 (Combined crew weight of 800 lbs) in two rental Old Town Penobscot 17 foot Royalex Canoes (max load weight of 1100-1150 Lbs). You are carrying 4 large packs, 4 smaller personal packs and misc. fishing gear with a total gear weight of approximately 350 lbs split evenly between the two canoes. Additional Situation Information: •This is Day 2 of a planned 10 Day Trip to Quetico Provincial Park. •This Trip has been in the planning stage for over 2 years. •The Crew: o Curly: Average Outdoorsman/Canoeist. Trips: 3. o Mo: Average Outdoorsman/Canoeist. Trips 3. (Curly’s Brother) o Larry: Expert Outdoorsman/Canoeist. Trips 40+ many of which were solo. (Curly’s Best Friend) o Harry: Rookie Outdoorsman/Canoeist. Trips: First Timer (Drove the crew up in his brand new Range Rover and is Curly's Boss) • The Crew all lives in Sioux Falls, SD. A 500 mile, 8 hour Drive from Ely • The nearest commercial airport is in Duluth, MN. A 115 Mile 2 Hour Drive From Ely. Delta has several flights a day through MSP International to Sioux Falls, SD • Your Outfitter is: Bojibob’s Boats and Beer, Located on Moose Lake. Boji stocks 4 Man, 3 Man, Tandem and Solo Canoes, Kayaks and over 100 Domestic and Imported Beers, Many in plastic bottles. Boji offers shuttles to Duluth airport ** The crew has each invested over $700 in fees, gear, gas/food/beer etc. Your current location: You are currently located on Keefer Lake, 2 days travel north from Prairie Portage. Your crew has slogged through some tough portages to get here; including the infamous Yum Yum Portage. Additional Information: The current time is 4:00 PM. The Date is August 21, 2010. Sunset is at 8:11 PM, Twilight lasts until 8:45 PM. Weather is good, clear skies with slight breeze with gusts 5-10 MPH from the NW. Items of interest in your gear pack: You have a SAT Phone. The Challenge: While setting up camp. You have turned on the SAT phone to check reception and for messages. There is a Text message. The message is from Curly’s wife. “Call Home Immediately – Family Emergency”. Curly calls home to find out that his Wife’s Mother and Father have been tragically killed in a Car Accident. The Funeral is on August 25, 2010 at 10:00 AM in Sioux Falls, SD and Curly’s wife, wants and needs Curley to come home ASAP. This is “THE CALL” that we all hope to never get. Additional conversation develops between the crew. Curly insists that he wants the crew to continue the trip, but yet he still needs to get back to Sioux Falls, SD. by 10:00 AM of August 25th. Now What? On this challenge, no options are given. Place yourself in the shoes of the Characters and try to think like they would based on their relationship with Curly. Curly must get to Sioux Falls within 3 days. How do you get Curly Home in Time for the Funeral and yet continue the trip as he insists.... or do you? Note: Not all challenges are pure technical issues. This one has some technical considerations but Crew members emotions and compassion should also be considered. Next Challenge: “Group Separation”. If you missed Leadership Challenge 1: Bear Island If you missed Leadership Challenge 2: Destroyed Canoe If you missed Leadership Challenge 3: Broken Ankle |
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sotaman |
And rereading it a bit wouldnt moe need to get going as well as larry since its a best friend and brother family is family trips over. Long road trip. |
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RT |
If Curly insisted that the rest of the group keep going (on the trip) then I would turn around, sans Curly, and continue on. Of course, even if Curly insisted, it is still something that would have to be agreed upon by all of the remaining guys. In this instance I do not see an outfitter being cold hearted about offering a refund. You might have to ask, but I think they would; especially if it is just the one guy leaving and the rest of the group staying in. I may be wrong, but most of the outfitters I have talked with seem like the kind of people who would help out in any way the could. |
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danhawk |
These are a few items I would consider - two days of food (something you don't have to cook, tarp for shelter, medical, dry clothes, map, compass, fire-starter, and Curly's wallet/ID. Larry could bring another SAT phone when he solos back to connect with the group. At a minimum, he should call them from bojibob's. If it is determined that Curly is deeply sad about the in-laws and he was very close to them, the entire group needs to race back with him and support him. His Brother or best friend will certainly be able to make this decision. This is a very sensitive subject and should be treated as such. This is no time to be selfish. |
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Bearfoot |
Select those you travel with VERY CAREFULLY and make sure everyone is on the same page before you even take the trip. Life is too short! In my opinion, the four of them began the trip together so they end it together (even if it's shortened by an unplanned event). Everyone works together to get home safely. The individual can assess his own feelings and decide the details (when, where, WITH WHO, etc.) of his next trip. C |
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preacher |
I would say that if some of the party still want to finish their vacation they can at least get Curly (and probably his brother) to the airport so he can fly home or rent a car. I know my perspective on things will have moved far from canoeing and camping at that point. |
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otter1 |
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camp-n-scrap |
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fishguts |
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Journeyman |
Just catching up with this thread. Does Kanoes actually think he has the arsenal to go to battle with an intellect like Koda? He should know better after being ridden like a rented mule. LOL |
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myceliaman |
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gutmon |
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woodsandwater |
Next trip bring no phones out. |
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woodpecker |
everyone leaves together in the morning Woodpeccker |
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solotrek |
I'm with Kanoes on this one. No real decision here. These guys are buddies. They have to be after spending two years together planning this trip. Of course Curly wants them to continue. Likely, we would all say the same thing. Fact is, however, we all know that trips are largely about the people we're with. In this case, we travel together or we leave together. Trip's over. Call the outfitter. Arrange transportation for all. Go home. Support your buddy. Plan another trip. |
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Windschill |
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Mad_Angler |
It is 4pm. You are just starting to set up camp. Pause for second to get your thoughts straight. After discussing with everyone, start taking down camp. Pack up and start heading back down. Get as far as you can safely go before it gets too dark. Continue to travel efficiently at first light. Get Curly to BBB as quickly as possible. Discuss options while traveling. Since everyone is pretty close to Curly, it seems that the best option is for everyone to pile back into Harry's SUV and head home... |
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Mad_Angler |
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SunCatcher |
B. Get early start for two days back to where we started/ C. We all ride home together (8 more hours together is best) (not saving much time getting to airport, getting ticket, dropping off, etc) Just as well drive home. D We all support the Family. E. We plan another trip for next time. F. Curly's wife really needs Curly..No arguing about it. |
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moosedrool |
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shr2807 |
The group should stay put, until Larry makes it back to the group, or they should change their route to make it easier for Larry to catch up to them, as long as they have a prior agreement as to where they will meet up. Timeline : Leave out by 4:30 on the 21st, and paddle until a minimum of 9:00 PM, but depending on the moonlight, maybe later. Get up and moving by 5 am on the 22nd, and paddle until you reach the Prairie Portage, get transported to the outfitters by the end of the day on the 22nd, Curly should be able to get a flight out by sometime late on the 23rd, or morning of the 24, which puts him in time for the funeral. |
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hexnymph |
Seeing that everyone is pretty connected to Curly… best friend, boss, and brother, the trip is probably over. Paddle back and deal with logistics once out, most likely make the drive. If Curly isn’t to close to the inlaws and/or his wife, then maybe he is dropped off at the outfitter to fend for himself with shuttling to the airport and flying to home. Hex |
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bojibob |
What is the fastest way to get Curly Home.....could he feasibly be home late tomorrow night? 22 August. Is there anyone outside the crew that could provide more information to make a decision? How long would it take from the current time to get to Prairie Portage.... Can Curly go and come back? The funeral is at 10:00 AM. Is there enough time left in the trip to make it worth it? Will the Beer come into play? Just stirring the pot here.... |
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butthead |
Any argument from crew and it would be the last trip I'd take with them. butthead |
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nojobro |
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drnatus |
I would call the outfitter after the group has decided what to do. A lot may depend on Curly's relationship to his in-laws. If they were like parents to him, I'd be with him every step of the way. If he couldn't stand them and is only heading home to support his wife, I don't know that my presence would help. If I were in his shoes, I'd feel terrible about ending a trip for social issues that I really didn't have that much emotionally invested...kinda crass, I know, but extreme environments sometimes demand an extreme response. Again, if it were me, I'd want to be there to support my wife, but having my friends exit early would make me feel worse. Would drive home, the time waiting in the airport would likely negate any travel time savings, unless the flight was perfectly timed. I'd rent a car in Ely and drive the 8 hours home as soon as I hit town, leaving the trip car for my tripmates. |
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Cedarboy |
CB Please lets NOT start the technology debate AGAIN. |
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Beemer01 |
#2. Since you ignored #1, the crew heads back to the outfitter, who has been alerted in advance (well, you do have the phone) to shuttle the guy to Duluth. Once back, you'll need to break apart the packs and rejigger things (reduce food, his gear etc, and trade in the tandem for a solo. Have the Outfitter draw up a new loop for the remainder of the trip.... the good news is that Quetico 2 miles in is often just as good as Quetico 50 miles in. Leave the Sat phone with the outfitter. |
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L.T.sully |
I think as part of the remaining three I'd try to stay in for an abridged version of the trip. |
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brerud |
The brother, the best friend, and the boss (he must be a friend if he he is on the trip with them) have one obligation at this point; that is to get Curly to his wife as soon as possible. This means getting to the vehicle and driving straight back to SD. The airplane idea would actually take longer to get him home. |
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fishnfreak |
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bojibob |
Bojibob rents boats and sells beer. |
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canoe212 |
The later half of my plan depends on the group. If they can get along well enough with out Curly they should be good to go. They may also choose to return to South Dakota. Beer drinking/toasting is optional. |
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PineKnot |
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andym |
1) Go camping with your spouse. 2) Sat phones are for outgoing calls. Took one on our last trip and no one knew the number and it never came out of the case. Yes, we have relatives who are not comfortable with us being completely out of touch but we don't even tell them we carry a sat phone. |
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bojibob |
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kanoes |
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rlhedlund |
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fishnfreak |
Cindy= Curly's wife + dead parents Curly better get home now!!! Mindy = sister in law, she knows if Mo doesn't get his rear home with Curly that she is going to look like the big b*tch who didn't care that Cindy's folks died. Linda= Larry wife, he has made 40+ trips and quite frankly she's tired of it all. She uses the logic that if Curly came home you should have to. Wanda= She has no emotional attachment here. She is the wild card So in the nd what did we learn. Curly, Mo and Larry are all screwed together. But Harry is the one who is most screwed, hell he drove their butts up there, he owes no one nothing. His only problem is that he needs Larry to get his rookie butt through this week and now he just as screwed. This group will never trip together again. Especially after Linda finds out about Larry and Wanda!!!!!! |
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kevheads |
These are getting tougher. |
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bojibob |
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ekffazr |
next time remember not to check messages until a few days into the trip. or better yet dont bring one.......that keeps those pesky family emergencies from cutting the trip short :O) I am mostly kidding of course....maybe but my answer to the question as it is laid out remains the same, trip over for Curly anyhow......whether or not the rest go on ofter is up for debate. however odds are you dont go on, as its just not the same with good ole Curly. |
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Koda |
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kanoes |
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whiteh20 |
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Unas10 |
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Stumpy |
I cut the lure free of the hooks & poured gin over the wounds. We packed up and broke camp at Noon, and paddled (Grumman canoe)the 33 miles (16 portages) into a stiff wind. Saw a Scout Group on North Bay, and used their radio phone, to call ahead for a tow pick up at Prairie Portage. Made it to Williams & hall outfitters by 11:30 PM. Had him at the Ely hospital by 12:30 AM. Nephew & I were having a drink in Dees bar at 12:45 AM. |
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sotaman |
Would it not be the reasponsible thing to do by not pissing and moaning about the loss trip. I know I would be crushed if I lost any one of my in laws. No I would not expect my brother to travel up from Georga for the funneral but I know my best friend and brothers well enough that they would be there for me in this exact instanse. The trip is only ten days. You have a life time left with your wife and hopefully your friends. |
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Benutzer |
Not only they, but also the rest of the family have to live together afterward, and I agree that the wives are not going to understand *anyone* continuing the trip. The funeral is not for the benefit of the dead - it's for the benefit of the living, and they will not be sympathetic to the desire to keep going. It will be far easier to take another trip than explain that decision to them. My personal opinion? This is why I turn the phone off and/or leave it behind. There's nothing that requires my presence badly enough to warrant it. Food for thought - If there really was something important enough to require my presence (my son needs one of my kidneys right now?), the wife would have a float plane and search crew sent out to my planned route to find me. PS. It's unfortunate and sad to see the sniping from 2 people whose opinions I otherwise enjoy reading. For the benefit of the board, I would be understanding if the moderators took a more heavy handed approach to solving the problem. Though that is a burden I would not envy. |
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ekffazr |
can I do that? ignore the message and finish the trip.......Curly doesn't like his in-laws anyhow, that is what I would do :O) or Curly and his brother bail and the other two finish the trip stupid phones all they do is cause trouble........ |
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rlhedlund |
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rlhedlund |
Get outfitter to book flight and shuttle to airport (???) for Curly and brother and have a tow waiting for us. Us other two will drive home with what ever gear we need to take back. After Curly and his brother are off, we can layover a day at the outfitter to rest after the hard-a&& return from Quetico. bojibob - you're wearing me out. Keep 'em coming :) |
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Koda |
Curly: "This is my emergency and I'll get myself out; everyone else should finish the trip." Mo: "I'm your brother and your wife is my sister-in-law and I'm going with you." Larry: "Mo, you being Curly's family trumps me being his best friend. I'll stay." Harry: "I want to support Curly. Whoever goes with him should take my car. Just please get it back by the time we get out. And Curly, take whatever time you need for your family, and let me know when you think you'll be back at work." With everyone's feelings out in the open it should be fairly easy to reach consensus (a decision each person can live with). Whether Mo rejoins the trip or goes back with Curly is a relatively minor issue, but if he goes back with Curly he'll have to figure out transportation. I'd support Mo going back rather than Larry, since between the two of them they have enough skill to do it on their own. |
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Rapid Runner |
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tremolo |
If my parents were just tragically killed in a car accident, I would want my husband home asap. I really wouldn't give a rip whether his friends stayed or went. However, thinking about it, my spouse camps once a year with a group of guys and I cant imagine any of them would even consider staying if this for real ever happened. If the other guys' wives were close to curly's wife, they might want their spouses home. It would depend on their relationships. Curly's wife is going to need a lot of help and support from her friends and if her friends are married to Curly's friends, they will be basically working full time to help Curly's wife make plans for the funeral, memorial, burial, dealing with the children, a lot of logistical stuff as well as emotional. They would very much appreciate their husbands being home to help them deal, keep the household from falling apart, and just being there. The boss-- he'd be forced to abort the trip but he seems rich enough to absorb the lost cost. No one would really be thinking too much about him-- two people were suddenly killed. If he were a good guy, he would help expedite the trip back in any way that money can buy. The group should return to the exact spot the following year, and redo the trip. The outfitter, Bojibob's Bait and Beer, should give them deep discounts for every thing they need. The wives should go on their own trip too. |
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hexnymph |
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Koda |
kanoes seems to be the victim of some combination of limited thinking and combativeness. No matter, though, since all I've done is explained my thinking. If he has trouble with that it's his problem, not mine. I really don't want to have to lay out the experience that informs my opinions, but in this case maybe it's appropriate. I proposed a consensus process because it works in the moment and minimizes future bad feelings. In fact, over my 18 years of facilitating planning and problem-solving groups (plus a handful of outdoor trips), consensus is the only decision process I've seen give sustainable results. Military situations are often different, but they don't apply here. I simply outlined what I thought would be a good way to go about it, including looking at it from each person's perspective - which is what the exercise called for. I also didn't lay out all my thinking, which includes the dynamic called "survivor guilt" where the people who stay behind (in this case those who continue the trip) feel they don't have the right to have a job (or otherwise enjoy themselves) when others are suffering. My perspective on this point comes from having successfully led a group of post-layoff work survivors through the process of managing survivor guilt, in addition to handling similar issues in outdoor settings. My suggested outcome may not be the one chosen by any four individuals, but my reasoning is sound. The bottom line, I suppose, is that people will consider other ideas regardless of the experience (perhaps even wisdom) behind them. |
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brerud |
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bojibob |
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Dbldppr1250 |
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Koda |
I've found that it works much better when the group members accept that not everyone has to jump up and carry the person on their shoulders (so to speak). In the situation we're analyzing here, there are several complicating factors, including the long planning time and Curly's boss being there. If Curly is like many of the folks I've known, if everyone leaves with him he'll not only feel guilty that his problem resulted in an aborted trip, but it could also affect his relationship with his boss. The solution is not to take a blind attitude toward group solidarity, but to make a clear decision that optimizes each person's needs and desires - whatever the end result may be. Feel free to disagree. I've explained myself. As always, you can take what you like and leave the rest. |
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snakecharmer |
Sucky deal for everyone, but pull the plug. |
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gutmon |
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mc2mens |
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Basspro69 |
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Koda |
I will certainly stand down, since it's clear that some outspoken folks are more interested in their own interpretations than understanding what's been said. |
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Basspro69 |
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canoe212 |
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mc2mens |
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mc2mens |
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Journeyman |
Good point though - they'll still be dead, whenever... they get back. LOL Always good to hear some Mountain man insight to help get things in perspective. |
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fishguts |
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